8th Edition & BA

[Xenith]

 

are fortifcations gone

There are nine battlefield roles and fortifications remain one of them. The above Detachments are samples of what to expect.

 

 

As above. They still exist, just you cannot take a fortification in any of the force org charts that have been revealed. I'd expect various 'attack' and 'defence' force orgs with a greater or lesser emphasis on fortifications and heavy support/fast attack.

 

That batallion with 2 HQ, up to 6 elites, that pretty much allows a heavy death co army, with a little scoring on the side.

 

The patrol detachment is the biggy, really. Min 1 troop is official in regular games for the first time in nearly 20 years. Perfect for small games.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Xenith

[Quixus]

So what is the benefit of taking the patrol detachment over an unbound army?

Edited May 5, 2017 by Quixus

[Frater Antodeniel]

So what is the benefit of taking the patrol detachment over an unbound army?

 

Is there even the need of a "benefit" in small games such as Patrol Detachment ?

 

Personally, i think it is a good design choice to bring complexity (aka benefits) with big detachments, and small to none complexity with small detachment.

 

The Patrol Detachment is a good choice for :

 

- Beginners with small armies

- People who do not have lot of time. (Or who want to play multiples games.)

- People who want to build a narative campaign, with small engagements, and big battles.

 

----------------------------------

 

Plus, another solid reason, is the fact that, now, all factions share the same Detachments. (Before, there was, a CAD, a Baal Strike Force, a Flesh Tearers Strike forces....each with their own bonuses).

 

And finally, the Patrol Detachment appear to be the smallest detachment, so the type of game in which you will use this one will most of the time be restricted to this one only, for both you and your opponent. (Meaning that if you play a 500 pts game, Patrol Detachement will be the only Detachment available for you and your opponent.)

[Quixus]

My question is why use a detachment at all, instead of just taking the units you like? If being forced to take an HQ and a troops choice does not give you any benefits, why not take other better units instead?

[Charlo]

My question is why use a detachment at all, instead of just taking the units you like? If being forced to take an HQ and a troops choice does not give you any benefits, why not take other better units instead?

 

Because you still take those units and you are in matched play. So for example you use it as the current allied detachment. You don't get command points but you get to bring a small force of a different faction.

 

Unbound is NOT a thing anymore - it is it's own entirely different game mode, open play.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I had mixed feelings about Formations in 7th, particularly in their execution; so like for Blood Angels, while they could've been less taxing and overall better, they were still quite flavorful and a nice concept. Formations should've been costed all along to cut down the SM:Gladius shenanigans etc etc... but still I think Formations were a good idea.

 

Going to back to old style Force-org, with exceptions, seems like a step backwards to me, and this is the clear influence of the ITC / US-Tournament guys working with GW. I've never been fan of their whole style of play and it certainly never 'balanced' anything from the perspective of the already weaker codex (BA/Nids/etc). That said, I'd love to be proven wrong and see that GW makes right on all this.

 

I am fine starting from scratch really, but we did spend all year building hugely taxing THREE Terminator squad formations etc... so who knows.

[Tyriks]

I wonder if once the overall game is pretty well balanced if we might not see them come back, albeit hopefully not quite the same.  I agree that I liked the idea but often didn't like the actuality of them.  And it'd be easier to fix the system, I think, if you make sure the units involved are balanced first and then try bringing them back.  

[Jolemai]

To be fair, there's still a good chance they won't be wasted as we don't know what's in the basic Faction book on release and what's​ going to be any forthcoming campaign books.

[Venerable Jazzman]

 

 

I am worried about how BA will fare in 8th ed. Sure BA (and SW - they seem to be in a similar position) will have rules at launch, but how long will GW continue supporting them ? They seem to be squatting BA in the fluff, whilst pushing Guilliman's New Marines in both models and fluff.

 

 

I am worried about that too. I mean at least when they remove other product lines, their model support were ancient. Ours is pretty much up to date.

 

 We may have a lot of new models, but out HQ models are ancient - the Dante, Tycho, Meph and Corbulo models are all in the Angels of Death book from 1996, and I don't think they were new when that came out. Ok, they're resin now, rather than metal, but it's the same model. 

Maybe we'll get a Dante's Call box set with new models for them as part of the Defence of Baal series

[sebs_evo7]

Might get access to storm talons in this edition

[Cleon]

Does anyone know where the successor home worlds are?

 

For the successors who have their home on the Terra side of the rift and their forces at Baal what do they do? roll into the Blood Angels? Set up a new home? fight to the death? Risk travel home?

[tkni]

Cretacia is sometimes included on maps as being in Segmentum Tempestus, though absent from the most recent chapter map.

 

Other than that, I'm not sure we know very much at all about the other scions' home worlds. Lamenters and Charnel Guard are fleet-based, while the Blood Swords pretty much sit on the 'northern' edge of the EoT.

 

Also, some of Swallow's inventions are (possibly) Obscurus, but I tend to disregard those novels.

 

[edit] here's the merged map I threw together:

 

http://i.imgur.com/U9OlX3p.jpg

Edited May 6, 2017 by Taeknologik

[Spikedhalo]

Well, Let me say some words too) 

As for me - a newbie in the world of Playing Warhammer - these news about detachments are really gooood... And I think, for most new players also. Hey, that Patrool detachment - it's just the Getting Started with *** box! So everyone can just buy one box, build it, paint it and ready to go! And after that step... there will be experience, there will be thoughts about how to expand the army... And you do not neet to frag out your brain thinking - hey, what formation in my codex is Really playable?  BSF? Wait.. there is a new book... so may be... FTSF... STOP!! There is another fraggin' book! And there is cool formation of Death Company! What? At Least 15 black guys? Holy Emperor... That were my thoughts, though)) So I've just decided - frag these formations - will just paint what I want. 

Yes, I am among these unlucky guys - because my painting work was focused on death company to build Strike force Mortalis - and I have A LOT of that black guys. But I still welcome these new changes) 

Luckly enough, I have a Tactical squad and a rhino waiting to be painted)) 

So that are just my newbie thoughts) 

Blood for the Emperor! Skulls for the Golden throne! 

Edited May 6, 2017 by Spikedhalo

[Cleon]

Erk, that map does sort of hammer home that the Angels are the only marines of any real note north of the rift.

[Frater Antodeniel]

About the Flesh Tearers

 

The wiki state that "The Flesh Tearers' initial Crusade eventually led them deep into the western reaches of the galaxy." . In the Novel "Flesh of Cretacia", The Flesh Tearers come to discover Cretacia (and Cretacia's seven world system) after chasing an Ork flottila through the Corythos System. (So Cretacia System is neighbor to the Corythos System.)

 

So, if we take the fact that Cretacia is located deep in the Western Reaches of the galaxy, then it would be a 75% chance that Cretacia is on Baal Side of the Galaxy....opening the way for reinforcement for the Flesh Tearers from their homeworld...

[tkni]

It's more 'western tempestus' than 'southern pacificus', I believe:

 

http://i.imgur.com/YYdrfRL.jpg

[Quixus]

Has GW already already confirmed what the Cicatrix Maledictum is? Doe sit prevent warp travel across it? Is the warp bleeding into realspace along the line? Is it both?

[Panzer]

Has GW already already confirmed what the Cicatrix Maledictum is? Doe sit prevent warp travel across it? Is the warp bleeding into realspace along the line? Is it both?

It's a giant warp storm iirc.

[Frater Antodeniel]

Has GW already already confirmed what the Cicatrix Maledictum is? Doe sit prevent warp travel across it? Is the warp bleeding into realspace along the line? Is it both?

 

Consider the Cicatrix Maledictum as a near impenetrable wall. Some succed to pass through it, most fail...

 

Regarding about the incoming fluff, i regard it a good thing for the Blood Angels. Since, being separated from the "Guilliman" part of the Imperium, Blood Angels are likely to stay within "40k" rather than "41k". (It may spare us the Marine 2.0 thing most notably.). It also make our the fightings on our side more desperate, which really fit our theme.

[Quixus]

Fluffwise it fits, but models- and ruleswise I suspect it will mean fewer toys for us again (think Skyhammer Annihilation Force, Land Speeders Storm etc.)

[Frater Antodeniel]

Fluffwise it fits, but models- and ruleswise I suspect it will mean fewer toys for us again (think Skyhammer Annihilation Force, Land Speeders Storm etc.)

 

I think that because of the 8th editions "codex", Blood Angels will see new armoury options, most notably :

 

- Land Speeder Storm

- Stormtalon / Stormhawk

- Stalker / Hunter

- and maybe, the Centurions

 

But, the two most important addition (Land Speeder Storm and Stormtalon/Stormhawk) will be present, i'm pretty sure of it. I cannot imagine, GW refusing those two(three) units to the Blood Angels in this 8th edition.

[Guest pandion40]

Fluffwise it fits, but models- and ruleswise I suspect it will mean fewer toys for us again (think Skyhammer Annihilation Force, Land Speeders Storm etc.)

My fear to. There's a lot of stuff we've been denied access to just because.

 

Also I'm nervous about marines 2.0 but if their made using the original chapters gene seed and not just ultramarine or a neutral gene seed I want them in BA. The last thing I want is other chapters, but ultramarines and space wolves in particular, being flat out better than us on a 1 to 1 basis. I'll admit that's some petty motivation

[Quixus]

 

Fluffwise it fits, but models- and ruleswise I suspect it will mean fewer toys for us again (think Skyhammer Annihilation Force, Land Speeders Storm etc.)

 

I think that because of the 8th editions "codex", Blood Angels will see new armoury options, most notably :

 

- Land Speeder Storm

- Stormtalon / Stormhawk

- Stalker / Hunter

- and maybe, the Centurions

 

But, the two most important addition (Land Speeder Storm and Stormtalon/Stormhawk) will be present, i'm pretty sure of it. I cannot imagine, GW refusing those two(three) units to the Blood Angels in this 8th edition.

GW did not give us any of those in the 6th Ed. Codex, nor did they in the various Baal book, nor in the Angel's Blade supplement. GW had many opportunities of giving us the stuff vanilla marines had all along, but all we got was scouts and dreadnoughts that aren't worse than their vanilla cousins.

 

 

Fluffwise it fits, but models- and ruleswise I suspect it will mean fewer toys for us again (think Skyhammer Annihilation Force, Land Speeders Storm etc.)

My fear to. There's a lot of stuff we've been denied access to just because.

 

Also I'm nervous about marines 2.0 but if their made using the original chapters gene seed and not just ultramarine or a neutral gene seed I want them in BA. The last thing I want is other chapters, but ultramarines and space wolves in particular, being flat out better than us on a 1 to 1 basis. I'll admit that's some petty motivation

 

Both chapters already have more than A whiff of marines+ about them, last thing I want is for it to be background fact and not just a result of over representation in the fluff.

 

Just to be clear I'm not having a go at either chapter, I like both a lot and realise their prominence in the fluff is because of their popularity, as is ours to a much lesser extent.

I agree and I'd appreciate if all marine chapters (including those with separate codices) all got the same stuff except different chapter tactics. :cuss they already did it for Black Templars, why stop there? Chapter Tactics is FC, Sanguinary Guard, DC etc. are units that can only be taken with chapter tactics BA.

[DeathcompanyDante]

In the Dante book, I'm sure it mentions stormtalons escorting stormravens near the beginning, so fluff wise we definitely have access to them.

[NTaW]

In the Dante book, I'm sure it mentions stormtalons escorting stormravens near the beginning, so fluff wise we definitely have access to them.

Can confirm they are in the book. Can not confirm that it means we'll be getting Stormtalons.