8th Edition & BA

[Blindhamster]

That... Would be interesting to say the least!

[Xenith]

You could even remove a combat phase, as both fight at the same time:

 

Odds on the game turn being:

 

P1 Movement (inc charging)

P1 movement (inc charging)

P1 shooting

P2 Shooting

P1+2 Combat phase

 

?

 

That turn style would make more sense of the fall back rule mentioned.

[Panzer]

That would definitely be interesting but I doubt it. It would ultimately give the one who goes second more tactical power since he could react to the opponents movement before he was able to utilise his new position for shooting or whatever and shooting first doesn't mean much if your opponent just dodges out of Line of Sight.

 

I think the fall back rule works perfectly fine with the classic P1: Move, Shoot, Combat -> P": Move, Shoot, Combat model.

Also Pete Foley said on his twitter that we won't have to roll for turn initiative and I doubt a model like yours would be much fun with one of the players being forced to be the reacting one for the whole game.

[RedemptionNL]

=> Since, we can reasonably assume that the Rending Special Rule is gone => All Rending weapons (Eldars.....auto-wound on 6....) will likely have a -1/-2. rending value instead.

More likely it's something like: Any To-Wound roll of 6 has a -3 armour save modifier.

[Phiasco]

Just as excited about what we've learned about the psychic phase as I am about close combat making a come back. Granted we still don't have the full details about anything, but so far it's looking pretty solid. I'm ready to once again rain my librarian dread down upon my opponents.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Curious to see how poison will work now that everything wounds everything.

 

And on a chapter specific scale I'm excited to see what lucifer pattern engines will amount to. Maybe it will be something like treat movement as if you have x wounds left after x wounds. Or maybe it will be something like where Ultramarine rhino moves x Blood Angel rhino moves x +3" etc.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Quixus]

Curious to see how poison will work now that everything wounds everything.

Poison immunity special rule/keyword, I hope. Poisoning tanks is just ridiculous.

 

But since they seem to think templates are too complicated, they might just remove poison.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Xenomorph acid blood. Melts all the tanks.

 

It wasn't that templates were too complicated. It was how long it draws out the game. And then you have bickering amongst the rabble: i.e. the template hit x or y amount of units. I'm fine with the change, though curious how small and large blasts will now work. And both too and bottom floors which was always a bad rule/caused an issue.

 

All interesting stuff though.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Panzer]

I'm honestly glad templates are gone except for the Flamer template. Blasts really were a pain and always lead to unnecessary discussions on the table.

 

Acid is not the same as poison and also never had the poison special rule. ;) I don't see why poison should work any different than it does now, just with the added sentence that it can't wound vehicles. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

But they are described as corrosive rounds...etc. poison in my opinion could be considered anything "poisonous" i.e. coagulating, corrosive, harmful through vapor etc.

[Tyriks]

I'm honestly glad templates are gone except for the Flamer template. Blasts really were a pain and always lead to unnecessary discussions on the table.

 

Acid is not the same as poison and also never had the poison special rule. I don't see why poison should work any different than it does now, just with the added sentence that it can't wound vehicles. 

I feel the same about templates.  No one ever fought about a flamer template but blasts have led to the worst cases of deceit I've seen in this game.  People always seem to wind up arguing about the angle of the scatter and how far exactly it would go and whatnot, so I'm not sad to see them go.  

[vahouth]

I'm not yet sure how to feel about this...

I don't really believe that they'd playtested this new edition thoroughly in order to make it more balanced. Previous experience suggests the opposite.

I'm more inclined to believe that AoS is in fact the actual lab-rat where all these new changes had been tested almost exclusively. 

 

And even though I'm somewhat skeptical as of the outcome, I decided to try and be more positive and see first where this all leads us to.

 

So, for starters, here are some things that stood out for me:

 

1. They seem to buff close combat armies more this time around. 
2. Hitting in assault is buffed (3+)
3. Can disengage from close combat (this can be both good and bad)
4. Every psyker has access to mortal wounds via Smite!
5. Mortal wounds cannot be saved, not even with inv saves, though they are not insta-death. We'll still have to see if at least FnP applies.
6. Strength and toughness stats can go above 10 and some units could have dozens of wounds!
7. Flame weapons will probably be the new meta. Glad our tacticals have access to 3 of them. ;)
8. No vehicle can be exploded with a single lucky shot anymore. Though even a lasgun could hurt it.

 

And a couple of speculations:

1. Is it safe to assume that force weapons will also dish out mortal wounds? If so, what would that entail for our Librarian Dreads?
2. Is it safe to assume that currently AP 1 weapons like meltas will also serve mortal wounds? 
3. Since there is no more an Initiative value and whoever charges has to attack first...does this mean Power Fists will strike first? 

[ChapelXIII]

So I think something of note that I haven't seen much discussed is that it appears that the space marines might be getting compressed down a bit which might mean everyone getting a bit more lumped together. It might mean we get a lot less flavor to our own chapter. Is this a positive thing or negative? Edited April 29, 2017 by ChapelXIII

[Damon Nightman]

At first we will be stuck in a big space marine book and not have too much "flavor" I guess but with Desolation of Baal coming out this year, I don't think we will have to wait too long for our codex/supplement.

[sebs_evo7]

^that's what i thought. We will be fairly generic with no real flavor except or unique units and furious charge and then a small book similar to 3rd editon (i think it was 3rd) for each main chapter

 

How do people read the psychic phase? Will mephy have for example sang sword, smite and other locked in powers or will we be able to roll on a table like now?

[Charlo]

On playtesting: this edition has been tested more than any other by loads of tournament player groups in the USA. I think we're going to have a nice game when it releases.

 

For powers, it seems that we'll have a specific lore of powers like now, in addition to ever psyker knowing smite. I'll boldly assume that there are powers that will be in unit profiles too - like Sanguine sword (if it's even back).

[redshadow]

from how the powers were been discribed Mephiston could be a beast again as he normal has always had more powers than his fellow librarians with 4 and he should have a low cast cost

 

I hope he gets the wings of sanguinius power back :D

Edited April 29, 2017 by redshadow

[Quixus]

I hope he gets the wings of sanguinius power back

I hope every psyker gets the 5th ed. Wings of Sanguinius. Flying Libbydreads FTW.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Quixus

[Panzer]

 

I'm not yet sure how to feel about this...

I don't really believe that they'd playtested this new edition thoroughly in order to make it more balanced. Previous experience suggests the opposite.

I'm more inclined to believe that AoS is in fact the actual lab-rat where all these new changes had been tested almost exclusively. 

 

And even though I'm somewhat skeptical as of the outcome, I decided to try and be more positive and see first where this all leads us to.

 

So, for starters, here are some things that stood out for me:

 

1. They seem to buff close combat armies more this time around. 
2. Hitting in assault is buffed (3+)
3. Can disengage from close combat (this can be both good and bad)
4. Every psyker has access to mortal wounds via Smite!
5. Mortal wounds cannot be saved, not even with inv saves, though they are not insta-death. We'll still have to see if at least FnP applies.
6. Strength and toughness stats can go above 10 and some units could have dozens of wounds!
7. Flame weapons will probably be the new meta. Glad our tacticals have access to 3 of them.
8. No vehicle can be exploded with a single lucky shot anymore. Though even a lasgun could hurt it.

 

And a couple of speculations:

1. Is it safe to assume that force weapons will also dish out mortal wounds? If so, what would that entail for our Librarian Dreads?
2. Is it safe to assume that currently AP 1 weapons like meltas will also serve mortal wounds? 
3. Since there is no more an Initiative value and whoever charges has to attack first...does this mean Power Fists will strike first? 

 

 

It got playtested a LOT more than any 40k edition before, they could learn from AoS and all armies get their list at the same time at launch so balancing should be better than ever.

 

I doubt Flamer will be the new meta. They are not bad but not something outstanding either.

 

We don't know how invul saves will work in 8th yet so we have no clue about how Force weapons etc. may work.

Almost nothing is safe to assume atm to be honest. Gotta be patient. ;)

[Blindhamster]

My guess is we will still have rules for sanguinary guard and death company and our dreads as they have fancy models. Our characters may or may not initially have rules. We will have a chapter tactic that is unique to us (no idea what, I hope it's like the heresy rule where we always wound one easier). But that will be it. Which is honestly fine for the time being, it's barely any different to now except I anticipate having better access to things we have had in recent novels (storm talons being the obvious example)

[Frater Antodeniel]

 

No vehicle can be exploded with a single lucky shot anymore. Though even a lasgun could hurt it.

 

Given that Dreadnoughts are T7.....if GW keep the Wound Chart as it is, then it will be impossible for a S3 Lasgun to wound a Dreadnought, which is realistic.

 

That a weapons such as a Bolter (S4, so 6+ to wound a T7 unit), is able to damage a dreadnought is more realistic.

 

The fact that everything is able to wound anything is simply impossible.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On this point, i think it is good to remind everyone of what GW told about Weapons and Toughness :

 

= > https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/26/warhammer-40000-weaponsgw-homepage-post-4/

 

"...we’ve made sure that every weapon has its use on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium."

 

=> https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/25/warhammer-40000-unit-profiles/

 

"Don’t worry though – stuff still dies quickly, with powerful weapons dishing out multiple damage with each hit – but you will, as always, need to shoot the right gun at the right target to get the best effects."

[Quixus]

 

The fact that everything is able to wound anything is simply impossible.

I disagree. There only is a problem if the minimum chance of wounding is 1/6 (as it was for previous editions if not impossible). A lot worse odds would not be a problem IMHO. I would not mind a one in a million chance of a lasgun wounding a land raider.

[Panzer]

My guess is we will still have rules for sanguinary guard and death company and our dreads as they have fancy models. Our characters may or may not initially have rules. We will have a chapter tactic that is unique to us (no idea what, I hope it's like the heresy rule where we always wound one easier). But that will be it. Which is honestly fine for the time being, it's barely any different to now except I anticipate having better access to things we have had in recent novels (storm talons being the obvious example)

They already said every model will have rules at 8th launch, so no worries. ;)

 

 

 

No vehicle can be exploded with a single lucky shot anymore. Though even a lasgun could hurt it.

 

Given that Dreadnoughts are T7.....if GW keep the Wound Chart as it is, then it will be impossible for a S3 Lasgun to wound a Dreadnought, which is realistic.

 

That a weapons such as a Bolter (S4, so 6+ to wound a T7 unit), is able to damage a dreadnought is more realistic.

 

The fact that everything is able to wound anything is simply impossible.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On this point, i think it is good to remind everyone of what GW told about Weapons and Toughness :

 

= > https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/26/warhammer-40000-weaponsgw-homepage-post-4/

 

"...we’ve made sure that every weapon has its use on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium."

 

=> https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/25/warhammer-40000-unit-profiles/

 

"Don’t worry though – stuff still dies quickly, with powerful weapons dishing out multiple damage with each hit – but you will, as always, need to shoot the right gun at the right target to get the best effects."

 

Uhm...just no. They said everything can wound everything so it will be like that. How exactly is unknown but it wouldn't be hard at all. Why do you think they'll keep the wound table that obviously wouldn't work with that concept?

The new table probably lets everyone probably wound anything at least on 6s instead of caping it at T=S+2. To make it even harder they could even add a second rule that says something like "if the targets toughness is twice as high as your strength roll an additional d6 after wounding it. On a 4+ the target takes a wound"

Never say something is impossible, just because you lack imagination. ;)

[Blindhamster]

With characters, their rules could easily be those of a generic chapter master, chief librarian etc. I doubt that will be the case but I don't discount the possibility either.

[Jorre]

I wonder if the to wound table might be a bit like the shadow wars to hit table?

 

Eg instead of str 3 not being able to hurt tough 7 maybe you need to roll a 6 and then roll a 4+ or against tough 8 you would need a 6 then a 5+