Plasmablasts Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Are our Troops slots for platoons or squads now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Well it looks like each Infantry Squad is a troops choice. I can't conceive of any reality where Infantry squads can't blob up so this is great! Each 30 man blob now counts as 3 troops slots filled. Command Pointy goodness. Oooor, they can't blob up and I'll be slightly sad. Going to need to see points before any judgments are made. Missing a few options (Veteran Doctrines) and rules for Command squads / Platoon Command Squads (Which I think is where the blob up rule will be found). Clearly Command Squads will be in the index and are just missing from the leak, but I think some options people have taken for granted will only be found in the Codex proper when it comes out. Still looking forward to 8th! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenricusTyranicus Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Just seen the leaked pics - in my group I play in I usually run grenadier vets for the 4+ armour. Now they're elites and only 5+ again. Will have to look over everything but looks like I'm going to have to paint up a load more plastic cadians for troops as my vets are all metal cadian squads. Vets in 7th only have 5+ as well. You have to buy an upgrade to get Carapace. Since we haven't seen the full vet datasheet, we don't know if they can take carapace, but I would imagine so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenricusTyranicus Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Looking at it closely, it looks like Vet squads can take a heavy flamer AND 3 special weapons. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 In case anyone has missed it, a fair bit of Guard info is leaking now. Bullgryns in particular draw my eye, their rules seem quite nice - I hope they don't suffer from the same costing issues they've had until now. Rough Riders might get their chance to shine a little too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 No carapace option for Veteran Squads :( at least a fuller codex will be released at some stage the indexes are just to get us playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Bull/O-gryns got a nice leadership buff they're on par with SMs now! I think I will be getting a set or two.. (probably 2 ;) ) Now do I want slab or brute shields ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamansky Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Now please correct me if i'm wrong. SWS can take 3 democharges... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Some of the stuff is sounding nice, maybe time for SWSs to strut their stuff on the table once more? ;) Short of a slip up on points again my Bullgryn project is about to jump to the front of the queue... I reckon with the new armour modification mechanic the 2+ shield is best for the default. Add in a few of the 4++ shields to absorb high penetration hits and they could be quite durable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoridon Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I see no mention of combining infantry squads in these data sheets. As far as I can see Infantry and Veteran squads are both capped at 10 with Conscripts being able to blob up to 30 models. It could be that a more detailed codex will add the ability back in but it seems we're starting 8th with separate 10-man squads. They did say in the early Q&A feedback that Platoons will stay, but that could just have meant the platoon commander (which is an individual model now), and having a command squad nearby. I suppose we'll just have to wait for a specific Codex to see how it will work in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoridon Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 On another topic it really feels like special weapons for our squads will be in a good place.Flamers: Nice against weaker infantry with the multiple hits (and negating the 4+ BS), useful for overwatch.Plasma: Strong against tougher/armoured 1W infantry, can also help chip wounds off high W models. Nice price drop too.Melta: Will excel against high wound creatures and vehicles.The Grenade Launcher I'm not sure of. The Frag option getting D6 does give it the potential to be worth up to 6 lasguns, and will usually be worth at least a couple of extra shots, but given the new lasgun order makes them Rapid Fire 2 it could easily mean they outperform the frag grenade option at half range. The Krak option getting D3 damage would be a nice boost for adding shots to tough creatures, particularly now squads can split fire. I suppose for the points it would make quite a flexible choice to add in, certainly stronger at long range. I was building some tri-Plasma Vet squads to go monster hunting. That might need to change to Meltas given the D6 damage... 3 of them having the potential to deal up to 18 wounds vs 3 is quite a difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 The ability to avoid dying to plasma fire will be nice, but I never really used frag on grenade launchers anyway. Krak for harder hits and supported by lots of lasguns worked fine for me and I expect that to continue :) I think I'll be sticking to flamer and grenade launcher for default Infantry Squad upgrades too, though with split fire perhaps space for some mortars on a couple of squads intending to hold the line? Speaking of which, what do people think about HWSs? I'm hoping for a points reduction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 My head is spinning with these leaks... so many ups and downs! Its going to take me 6 months to figure this all out now with some of the wholesale changes they've done to our codex. It looks more like my 3rd ed codex than 7th. Still can't figure out why you'd bother taking company / platoon command squads now our squishy commanders are even more vulnerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoridon Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I avoided Plasma and Melta where possible on basic infantry squads before because they were expensive on BS4 models and having to shoot at the same target tended to mean 'wasting' lasgun shots. Vets clearly won there being BS3 and able to run 3 of them, with the lasguns then being a secondary thought to their main task. Now that the points costs are lower for some of these weapons and split fire is in it'll be much less punishing having single plasma / melta dotted around basic infantry squads (I'm thinking of you, old metal models...). Still not optimal, but nowhere near as bad as before. I think I'm still with you on giving basic infantry Flamers / Grenade Launchers. Mortars certainly look more interesting. D6 hits instead of that small blast (which always seemed to scatter away) should be a nice improvement, and still hitting at 5+ on the move when needed. I wouldn't put them in squads looking to get close to the enemy but as you say for line holding squads they look much more tempting than before - especially for command squads looking to sit behind a gunline. I was giving Autocannons to some platoons but looking at the new points I'm thinking maybe Heavy Bolters for Infantry Squads and Mortars for Command Squads. Heavy Bolter team + Grenade Launcher could add quite a bit of firepower to a 10-man squad for relatively few points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoridon Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Speaking of which, what do people think about HWSs? I'm hoping for a points reduction... If I'm reading it right Heavy Weapon Squads got a big points drop. Before they were 45 pts for 3 teams, plus weapon choices added on top. Now it says a squad is 3 models at 4 pts per model, so down to 12 base pts plus weapon choices. Granted, Autocannons and Missile Launchers are a little more expensive now but the drop in base points is considerable. You could have 3 Lascannon teams for 72 total or 3 Heavy Bolter teams for 36 total. Want 3 Mortars sitting in the back? That'll only cost 27. Unless I'm being blind... I'd probably skip the expensive weapons on them due to their squishiness (leaving Lascannons for our now-stronger tanks) but some of those cheaper heavy weapons now seem VERY appealing to spam around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I love what I am seeing on the whole ... Reasonable price decreases almost across the board. No longer do Scions cost the same or more than marines for a T3 AV4+ soldier. 9 points compared to 13 point marines seems much better. And I am glad to see that as Marines went down in price yet again, stock Guardsmen are now 4 points apiece. I think veterans being 2 points more than regular Guardsmen is fair because they don't merely have +1 BS they also have access to a lot more weaponry per squad. This makes them no longer the "auto choice" and relegating platoons more to narrative players. Personally, I am super happy that veterans are back to being Elites where they belong. It is not like people can't still do their veteran armies, they will just use the Vanguard Detachment. It seems right and proper to me that if you want to reap the rewards of the detachments with lots of command points, it should be a regular/typical Guard army that consists of ... regular/typical Guardsmen. For those concerned about the apparent break-up of platoons into seperate slots (i.e. 4 slots instead of one for a minimum 25 man platoon), I think this is actually a good thing since we'll be able to fill-out a Brigade Detachment in no time flat. You could probably even take a Brigade detachment at as low as 1000 points and I bet no one else can do that. Guard may now be the army of Command Points. And Rough Riders look good. They now have 2 wounds each and their lances are not one use. Plus the lances do D3 damage so no more guilt over wasting their lances on transports when you enemy denies you any other targets. AND they got a 2 point reduction. They seem pretty solid now, those are some significant buffs coupled with a 20% price discount. I am mildly concerned about tanks. They just don't seem to deal a lot of damage but on the other hand, can we say they did all that much previously? Even a perfect Demolisher shot might cover 4-5 terminators if the enemy used proper spacing. Well, that perfect no scatter shot is probably equivalent of rolling 3 on your D3 shot and then you do D6 damage so still insta-gibbing anything that fails its storm shield save. Punisher gatling cannon looks like its exactly the same as before. I suspect the wording on the Plasma cannon is wrong, but until that gets fixed never ever use the supercharged setting on your sponsons! Commissars are so good for such a good price. They will definitely be a mainstay as they should be. Also super pumped to see that our armoury prices are lower than Space Marines as they should be. Plasmaguns in particular are almost 1/2 price of what Marines pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoridon Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Still can't figure out why you'd bother taking company / platoon command squads now our squishy commanders are even more vulnerable. Now that Officers are separate and our Commissars still give the best morale protection the main use I see for Command Squads is extending the Order range (with Vox changing from a reroll to 18" orders). It means you can have your front line infantry squad with a Vox, a Command Squad up to 15" further back behind cover with a Mortar providing supporting fire and the officer up to 3" behind that Command Squad still able to issue orders to the front line squad 18" away. 34 points for that setup isn't too bad for a bit of a human shield, keeping the officer an extra 12" from the front line (now that default order range is only 6" without Vox) and providing some bonus artillery. Alternatively skip the Vox, take the Standard and sit behind an Infantry Squad if you don't have a Commissar nearby. But that +1 LD won't do a whole lot... The other use would be 4 special weapons without the Vox hopping out of a transport or waiting to blast nasty things approaching your lines. You don't get the ablative wounds of a Vet Squad but you still get the 3+ to hit and the cost for the unit would be quite a bit lower! An all-or-nothing approach, 4 Meltas could deal 24 wounds with perfect rolls. Edited the order range as I hadn't noticed the base range is now reduced from 12" to 6". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I haven't seen command squads yet in the leaked pictures. Perhaps they give some sort of "Look out sir" ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 HWSs sound quite interesting then. So far this is looking to be the era of the infantry - or at least non-vehicle. With the price bumps for vehicles they're quite the investment now so it's not much of a surprise to see this for Guard too. Perhaps that can be offset with cheaper troops, though might be hard to squeeze lots of infantry in with the different Platoon system. Might FOC Troop slots be a premium for Guard? Either way I'm keen to see HWSs given the love they need so we can get them on the table gain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoridon Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I haven't seen command squads yet in the leaked pictures. Perhaps they give some sort of "Look out sir" ability. They have 3 special options on top of the weapon choices: 1. Medi-pack is a chance to recover a wound on a nearby (3") infantry unit on a 4+ (or return a previously dead model for units with 1W models). 2. Standard gives +1 to Leadership for units within 6". 3. Vox-caster extends the range of a nearby (within3") officer's orders from 6" to 18" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Master Flex Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Scions are a troop choice now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Ahh, coming back here I see that my fellow Guardsmen have abated some of my worries. The idea that we'll fill out several detachments and receive a lot of command points is a neat idea. We'll have several commisars to negate battleshock and several command squads relaying orders. The shame I see in not having a larger blob is that only one unit of 10 will receive an order... Still, a lot of shots, but imagine rolling 100+ dice for a larger blob in one go at short range. Scions being troops... ooo baby. You want an elite army, there you go. Also, Taurox prime has 10 space. So you can have two separate squads jump in and out as they wish, M14 is nice, or one larger of 10 with 4 special weapons. Man, here I was thinking I was nearly done spending money on my IG army, now it seems I'll need a few more toys. Well played GW... well played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 ... and they're almost half price. I suspect we'll be seeing more of those fantastic models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Orders have the potential to be REALLY strong.... If I'm reading this correctly...Could you: Shoot an enemy that's 1" away, then order them to fix bayonettes so they charge in the shooting phase. And then fight again in the fight phase? Also, we have orders that allow you to shoot after falling back... Man, there will be a lot of senior officers on the field. Order, Order, Order, Ru.. *BLAM* keep fighting. + All the command points we'll be getting. It's just something to get used to I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Now I've stolen the time to go through some bits: I'm quite pleased. As a dedicated tread head I'm sad to see the important of vehicles diminished somewhat, even if that's just through cost, but ultimately vehicles are (were) so important to Guard because the infantry was left behind so badly. With point drops and tweaks for the boots they can arrive in number, and in some cases actually be worth putting on the table for a competitive list. That's huge and well overdue! Order seem useful - though I've not read them in finer detail (but I presume the split between PC and CC is the same), potentially allowing Guard to mess to get out of tight spots. The psychic powers seem quite useful too, adding to saves in particular as along with cover that could make for a durable unit. I will need to see how things go before settling on finer details (like the 35pts for a Bullgryn...) but overall I'm really looking forward to running Guard lists again. In particular Scions have got a lot more inviting which is great - I can feel my dedication to getting my CSM models done crumbling as His Hammer calls to me once more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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