Thoridon Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 ok so mortar HWS are 27pts for 3d6 s4 ap0 dmg1 shots a wyvern is 85pts for 4d6 s4 ap0 dmg1 shots call me crazy but id rather take 3x of the mortar HWS for 9d6 shots i can spread around plus better orders coz it's infantry huehuehuehue Likewise. They'll be quite expendable, and free up the more expensive vehicles to use their durability closer to the front line. (edit: I mean using the points not spent on Wyverns to include more battle tanks etc.) 270 points will get 30 D6 S4 shots, that's anywhere from 30 - 180 shots depending on luck. Ouch to infantry! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4766419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 What goes around comes around? I made my Wyverns able to swap, so they'll likely be in Hydra configuration for 7th it seems. Maybe my first game should be an artillery company now I think about it? Plenty of cheaper troops and heavy weapons to hold the line and shoot the enemy down as the artillery rains death from afar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4766437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoridon Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Maybe my first game should be an artillery company now I think about it? Plenty of cheaper troops and heavy weapons to hold the line and shoot the enemy down as the artillery rains death from afar. It'd be quite thematic :) Infantry squads holding the line, tanks in support, Officers behind them yelling orders, Artillery raining in from the back and Scions air dropping in for surgical strikes. It'll also be nice in a mixed Imperial army, combining the above with Marine characters and melee units ready to counter-assault. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4766504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 ok so mortar HWS are 27pts for 3d6 s4 ap0 dmg1 shots a wyvern is 85pts for 4d6 s4 ap0 dmg1 shots call me crazy but id rather take 3x of the mortar HWS for 9d6 shots i can spread around plus better orders coz it's infantry huehuehuehue Awesome. I think I will be investing in a bunch of mortars. I bet they're dirt cheap on eBay or from bitz dealers since no one ever used mortars previously. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4766546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothical Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 ok so mortar HWS are 27pts for 3d6 s4 ap0 dmg1 shots a wyvern is 85pts for 4d6 s4 ap0 dmg1 shots call me crazy but id rather take 3x of the mortar HWS for 9d6 shots i can spread around plus better orders coz it's infantry huehuehuehue Wyvern gets a re-roll To Wound and is much tougher for that cost as well. Certainly glad that Mortar Squads look worth it again, was really disappointing that they were so weak and expensive compared to the silly-good Wyvern last edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4766550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sedibear Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 ok so mortar HWS are 27pts for 3d6 s4 ap0 dmg1 shots a wyvern is 85pts for 4d6 s4 ap0 dmg1 shots call me crazy but id rather take 3x of the mortar HWS for 9d6 shots i can spread around plus better orders coz it's infantry huehuehuehue Wyvern gets a re-roll To Wound and is much tougher for that cost as well. Certainly glad that Mortar Squads look worth it again, was really disappointing that they were so weak and expensive compared to the silly-good Wyvern last edition. Yeap I just spotted the wound rerolls on the wyvern. Havent looked at vehicle synergies coz im not a treadhead, but having the Mortar teams hang out with Harker and an officer gives them Preferred Enemy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4766633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Woah I missed the mortar squads being that cheap and pretty decent ... now where the hell did I put all my old weapon teams pretty sure I have a set of autocannons and mortars kicking around somewhere... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4767332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilt_imp Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Cool, I can see something I always wanted to add but now it will be a useful theme too, a: RAMS (Rocket Artillery and Mortars) Unit, in the form of a ‘Spearhead’ detachment of Guard. (1 HQ & 3-6 Heavy Support choices, i.e. Heavy Weapon Squads) Maybe even a little Counter RAMS as well with a ‘Fortification Network’ detachment of 2 Vengeance Weapon Batteries armed with Punisher Gatling Cannons. While the changes that 8th brings certainly means adjusting, brainstorming is at least fun Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4767513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 If I am reading things correctly, it seems that officers can take ANY weapons they want listed under "ranged weapons" so if you want to do some really rule of cool conversions you can now do stuff like give hotshot lasguns to sergeants or hotshot laspistols to officers if you don't feel like going all-in on plasma (although at the price of a meltabomb of yore, and no "gets hot" unless you want to, I expect to see a lot more plasma on characters). It is now actually worthwhile and legal to do the conversion I was daydreaming of to have a platoon commander with power fist and hotshot laspistol (for 1 point why not give them all hotshots -- with the new wound chart they are wounding a lot of stuff on 5+ that used to be 6+ and -2 AP). This is not correct, the Officers can only take bolt pistols, bolters and plasma pistols, not any ranged weapon you want. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4768596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothical Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Although I think bad things have been done to most of our vehicles, the Manticore is potentially very good, given that you will average 7 shots with its rockets (in a Command Point-spam army that can be very reliable). I mean, this is not bad for a 304 point module: Master of Ordnance plus 2 Manticores with Heavy Bolters, gets you (average) 14 BS3+ (over 36") S10 AP-2 D3 shots per turn, plus the one-off BS3+ D6 S8 AP-2 D3 shots from the MoO It will certainly be a priority target for any of the opponents reserves or fast-moving forces, but holy moly will that obliterate vehicles and wipe out either W2 or T5 MEQ units. Can probably do a fair number on non-Stormshield Terminators by reducing them to 4+ Saves too. Mix in some 27 point Mortar squads to pick off stragglers/infantry hordes aiming to jam the guns up and it really does start raining explosions. Artillery isn't dead, it just got a new outfit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4768639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KasrkinRyu Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGLqw2kRXeM Table top tactics imperium vs chaos 8th edition, includes guard. Interesting insight! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4769165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Marshal Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 On a surprising note, Cadian Defence Force just came back onto the UK store with 8th. Edit: It's no longer 'While Stocks Last' either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4769219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkeo Nox Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Hey guys, I can't see something about valkyries sarting in tactical reserve... they start on the board now ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4769257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen.Steiner Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I think all fliers start on the board unless you put them in reserve, in which case they need to come on before the third turn or they're dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4769301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
exsanguis Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I've always wanted an air cav force. Do you think Veterans in Valkyries with Vendetta and Vulture support is going to be feasible? Probably not enough boots (bodies) on the ground sadly... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4769361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Master Flex Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 So using the leaked rules I've just had a game against my mates Tau. I won and it wasn't as narrow as I expected. My main tactic worked quite well - I moved up my Russ' and kept my veterans behind using the tanks as cover. Pask in a Vanquisher worked very well for me, helping to clean up a squad of crisis suits and nearly killed a Ghostkeel outright. A good tactic that worked was to use my tanks to sit on objectives and just soak up damage. He did however wipe a couple of my veteran squads in one round of shooting, but I didn't expect them to last. Fortunately he doesn't have any riptides so not all bad. http://i.imgur.com/bgi1OKm.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4769648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 So I guess Russes aren't as poor as people have been thinking they are looking at the leaked data slates? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4769697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Thank you Mr. Flex. What do you mean by narrow? Close game, or simple rules? I love the idea of advancing troops behind tanks. Especially that they're more durable. Super cool aesthetically and also viable I'd assume. Mobility seems to play a huge role in this next edition, and we seem more than capable to partake as well. I also like you pointing out that our tanks can advance on to objectives and be pretty sturdy. Did you have the chance to (ab)use many orders? Side note: can tank commanders (pass) issue orders on themselves? As it says select a unit with the leman Russ key word or what not? Doesn't specify "other" but might imply other than oneself? Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4769794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Master Flex Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Sorry for the late reply - I got a 2nd game in, 2000pts a side against marines too. So I'll try cover points asked: I think alot of it comes down to dice, in the game against the Tau I had really good rolls with my tanks, my Russ's did take a lot of damage though. I ran 2 executioners with plasma sponsons and a lascannon each, these 2 really dished out the damage with Pask giving orders on to them. I did use orders of 1st rank fire, 2nd rank fire in both games, which brought me a ton of success in clearing objectives. I think IMO running troops behind the tanks is going to be something we'll see, and it looks super cool! Mobility is a big deal too, I had a punisher losing wounds for fun and there was one point where I wanted to drive away to get LOS on another unit, only for it to not get there as it could only move 5 inches off the top of my head. As for 'narrow' I won the match against the Tau 11 to 8, so not a huge win. The match against space marines finished 12-11 to me aswell. The match against the Tau did end early however but in 3 turns I had managed to almost table him, so I think 5 turns would have seen him blasted off the board. Also morale is brutal, I lost an entire squad in each game due to this (didnt have enough commissars but I have others ready to be built!). Plasma is deadly this edition IMO, I've got another demolisher to build so I'm definitely loading that out as an Executioner. I don't think Pask can give the order to himself but I think they may FAQ it shortly as it's not very clear :) EDIT: Run away from Guilliman, he's pure cheese! Ha! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4769859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 That is an interesting question, because Pask and the Tank Commander have different rules for Tank Command. Tank commander's rules have an additional caveat: "To issue a tank order, pick a target Leman Russ within 6" of this model (though the unit you pick cannot be a Character)." So a tank commander RAW cannot issue orders to himself or other tank commanders, since he is a character, but Pask can order both himself and other tank commanders. This does make Pask a lot more appealing, although this may change once we start getting regiment-specific rules. Not everyone wants to be Cadian. If you run Pask, Tank Commander, and regular Russ, that lets you have all three working under orders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4770068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Jam Master Flex, you are tempting me to make my life so much easier and instead of foraying into the unknown land of magnetization, simply glue together the Russ I'm building as an Executioner with plasma sponsons and lascannon hull weapon. Thanks again for posting your experience. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4770079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 I wonder if it's best to equip higher BS tanks with D6 hit guns (battlecannon, vanquisher, demo) and punisher cannon/plasma? With a regular dude with orders Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4770085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkeo Nox Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Did some of you try Valkyries ? 170~ points for a great transport (grav-chute is huge !!!) but with a bad firepower. While moving and with full health, you hit on 5+. Best you can do is hoover, not moving and having an officier of the fleet for ct4+ rerolling one. At 1000 points, I find it expensive but I can't see how much my opponents can take on the battlefield with their own armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4770664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Marshal Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 · Hidden by WarriorFish, June 4, 2017 - No reason given Hidden by WarriorFish, June 4, 2017 - No reason given Nevermind, missed the thread, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4770687
Withershadow Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 I am waiting for the FW index that gives me back my vendettas. I always used them to airdrop special weapon teams. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333243-8th-edition-guard-discussion/page/15/#findComment-4770946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.