Primaris and the Black Templars

[Castellan Doren]

If you're not a Templar, you're Alpha Legion. Or xenos

[BitsHammer]

Lady Atia posted some leaks from the Dark Imperium story on her blog and while I won't repost everything, I wanted to share some key things:

 

General stuff:

- The Sisters of Silence see Guilliman as living saint - they are glad he is back and they worship him.

To be fair the majority of the Imperium worships various saints, as well as the Primarchs (in forms that are definitely in line with whom they actually were), so I can't get mad about this. That said, to be worshipped by things without souls has to be a little uncomfortable. Especailly since one of the defining featurs of a Blank makes people loathe them for no reason.

 

- When Guilliman spoke with the Emperor during the gathering storm he was shocked how his "father" really sees him - not as a son, but a tool. So yeah, this builds up on the MoM story line. (I actually skipped quite to the end of the novel for this one).

In defense of the Emperor how emotionally connected to your children can you really be after losing them for a few hundred years and not even raising them to adulthood yourself? I'm sure that there is a cold, clinical side to the Big E that started the Primarch project with that in mind, but I also feel he'd been more emotionally invested in them if he raised them himself like he'd planned.

 

That said, it is a slap in the face of any Primarch to learn that and I could see seeds for potential rifts forming in the Imperium as a whole, especially if Guilliman shares the news with his brothers when he meets them again.

 

- The Emperor's humanity is all but gone in 40k.

This is why eating psykers for 10,000 years and not crusading is a bad idea kids.

 

That said, I can see that potentially how that soul eating might have been pushing him further and further away from his roots and into being some form of slowly birthing diety as he basically absorbs more power from the souls he eats (not to mention all the prayer aimed towards him). I mean we all know of him as the beacon of humanity (literally when it comes to warp travel). He might actually pull a Starchild on the Imperium and basically destroy Terra as he becomes a new god.

 

Primaris specific:

- It seems like Rowboote isn't really a fan of the Primaris Marines - he calls them even "Cawl's blasphemous hordes".

So yeas, even Guilliman isn't really on board with the new guys. I'm starting to wonder if he basically put in an order for a :cuss ton of reinforcements and Cawl decided that because Guilliman hadn't been around to use them he experimented with things until he managed to enhance them further. You know, the kind of heresy that would normally get a person shot in the Imperium, it's likely the fact that half of the Chapters are MIA, and many others are confirmed dead that he agreed to use them at all.

 

- He only sees them as a tool (atleast for now).

Like father, like son. Not only is he looking at them like how is father sees him, but he's apparently even copying the Big E's approach to Thunder Warriors vs Space Marines. A Dakka poster who spoiled a little more went on to mention that an Ultramarine Capain was feeling uncomfortable with how Guilliman was putting efficiency over the feeling of his existing sons and defering more and more to using the Primaris Marines to accomplish his goals in he Indomitnus Crusade and how he felt that it meant the older generation of Astartes' days were numbered.

 

That's right, Guilliman is basically walking a carbon copy of the Emperor's footsteps down to phasing out old things for new ones with no regard to how anyone actually feels about it.

 

Seems like the Big E isn't the only one to have lost something after 10k years on a chair.

 

I love the sort of hypocrisy here where he finds out he's nothing more than just another tool to the Emperor, while he basically now treats his genesire the same way. THAT is some proper 40k level stuff there.

 

Reason Templars should probably be less trusting of Guilliman:

- It's also implied that he actually is a psyker and tries not to use his potential because of Magnus' censorship.

Yup. Guilliman is a carbon copy of the Emperor who hasn't learned from his father's mistakes and is apparently also a witch. at least he,s smart enough to not run around shooting mind bullets or something.

 

Someone needs to see if he weighs as much as a duck before he turns anyone into a newt.

[Marshal_von_Speer]

Lady Atia posted some leaks from the Dark Imperium story on her blog and while I won't repost everything, I wanted to share some key things:

 

[...]

 

 

I'm taking this with a grain of salt, but it actually sounds better than the most recent gathering storm fluff.

 

I still wonder, what exactly happened during that audience Rowboat had with the + EMPEROR +.

With the + EMPEROR + still missing a TTS () ,  that whole conversation  must have taken place (if ever) in some sort of telekinetic way. So in fact the G-Man could've made anything up .

[Ciler]

With regards to the short item on how we shouldn't be too trusting of guilliman :

I haven't read all the Heresy novels, but I get a good sense that all primarchs have at least a measure of psychic powers. I mean even Russ was able to liquify the brain of a few Thousand Sons telepaths from half a city away...

[BitsHammer]

 

 

Lady Atia posted some leaks from the Dark Imperium story on her blog and while I won't repost everything, I wanted to share some key things:

 

[...]

 

I'm taking this with a grain of salt, but it actually sounds better than the most recent gathering storm fluff.

 

I still wonder, what exactly happened during that audience Rowboat had with the + EMPEROR +.

With the + EMPEROR + still missing a TTS () , that whole conversation must have taken place (if ever) in some sort of telekinetic way. So in fact the G-Man could've made anything up .

The lore is novel form so it's bound to be better than the generic sort of blurbs we see in most campaign and codexes where it's casually mentioned in it's most summarized form.

 

And considering the Emperor communed with Sisters in M36, I expect there is more going on there than RG talking to himself.

With regards to the short item on how we shouldn't be too trusting of guilliman :

I haven't read all the Heresy novels, but I get a good sense that all primarchs have at least a measure of psychic powers. I mean even Russ was able to liquify the brain of a few Thousand Sons telepaths from half a city away...

Not really a shock. It just amps up the levels of "just like dad" further though.

[Marshal_Roujakis]

The Emperor seeing them as tools is no surprise for those who have read Master of Mankind by AD-B... it was mentioned there when he was trying to operate on Angron...

 

Same with the Emperor's humanity... he lost that before he was interred permanently on the Golden Throne, it was mentioned by the Custodian Ra in the same novel as above...

 

The Guilliman as a Living Saint by the Sisters of Silence is new... first of all, the Sisters during the HH days never believed in the "God-Emperor" thing... when they look at the Emperor what they see is a man in golden armor without halo, no glowing eyes and no immense pressure... just a guy in a fancy Power Armor that has authority over the entire Imperium...

 

And that point where Guilliman is going to phase out standard Atartes for his Primaris and the smurf Captain pretty much describes me and why I don't like this change of edition...

it's not because it's my choice that my models are now inferior... but because it's the companies choice that my models are now inferior, and on their way to be replaced... well... so much for supporting this company eh?

[BitsHammer]

I wouldn't assume so much just yet. Recall that the Thunder Warriors fought back when they were wiped out by the Space Marines. Now multiply that sort of conflict by several tousand percent across the galaxy.

 

And Heresy era Sisters of Silence can't be completely equated to modern era ones. 10,000 years of service does a lot to an organization's beliefs.

[Kontakt]

I wouldn't assume so much just yet. Recall that the Thunder Warriors fought back when they were wiped out by the Space Marines. Now multiply that sort of conflict by several tousand percent across the galaxy.

 

And Heresy era Sisters of Silence can't be completely equated to modern era ones. 10,000 years of service does a lot to an organization's beliefs.

Funny you would mention thunder warriors. By the thunderbolt symbols on the back of the new repulsor tank (reminiscent of the unification wars) and the messing around cawl has done with astartes biology, I can only assume cawl has combined thunder warriors with astartes. The emperor had them destroyed at the end of the unification wars, and I am not sure why. My personal theory is that thunder warriors are far more susceptible to the taint of chaos... meaning developing the primaris marines could be the worst thing the imperium has done since splitting the legions.

[BitsHammer]

 

I wouldn't assume so much just yet. Recall that the Thunder Warriors fought back when they were wiped out by the Space Marines. Now multiply that sort of conflict by several tousand percent across the galaxy.

And Heresy era Sisters of Silence can't be completely equated to modern era ones. 10,000 years of service does a lot to an organization's beliefs.

 

Funny you would mention thunder warriors. By the thunderbolt symbols on the back of the new repulsor tank (reminiscent of the unification wars) and the messing around cawl has done with astartes biology, I can only assume cawl has combined thunder warriors with astartes. The emperor had them destroyed at the end of the unification wars, and I am not sure why. My personal theory is that thunder warriors are far more susceptible to the taint of chaos... meaning developing the primaris marines could be the worst thing the imperium has done since splitting the legions.

Offical word os that Thunder Warriors were physically stronger, but suffered from shorter lives and other issues (IIRC they were also mentally unstable in the long run and would devolve into basically frothing loonies when they got too old, but I could be wrong). Astartes have no known natural life span limit, and where seen as a more long term replacement as they didn,t need to be replaced as often or as quickly.

 

I am starting to wonder if Cawl was once a biologis working directly under the Emperor at some point. I mean he seems to know the geneseed fairly intimately, and that would explain why he'd understand it better than someone like Bile. It would explain why he doesn't seem to feel any guilt or aprehension in tinkering with the design as he could have been doing that under the Emperor (we know how the Big E likes to replace his toys when he gets bored of them after all), and found new sponsorship under Guilliman under the instructions of "give me a metric :cusston of Astartes" upon which Cawl interpretted it to continue his original work while using that work to fill Guilliman's instructions. Hell, Cawl could have even been involved in the creation of the Grey Knight geneseed which (according to the Emperor's Gift) was made from the Emperor's genetic material despite him not being a Primarch.

 

Basically it would go a long way to making sense of what little we know of the setting thus far and would basically give Cawl a free pass to do what he's doing, even if Guilliman doesn't fully approve.

[Ciler]

Offical word os that Thunder Warriors were physically stronger, but suffered from shorter lives and other issues (IIRC they were also mentally unstable in the long run and would devolve into basically frothing loonies when they got too old, but I could be wrong). Astartes have no known natural life span limit, and where seen as a more long term replacement as they didn,t need to be replaced as often or as quickly.

Thunder were augmented warriors, in so far as they were already soldiers before. Their implants were alos genetically unstable, which is why in The Outcast Dead one of the few remaining TW attempts to steal astartes gene seed to stabilise is own condition.

 

I don't think the issue was ever a particular susceptibility to chaos, merely that TW had a clearly defined expiry date.

[Bukimimaru]

I think that the release of the Primaris marines will bring new players to the BT chapter. Its brought me here and given me an excuse to start a new army.

 

As many people have already said, its widely agreed that the BT are unlikely to accept Guiliman's  fancy pants new way of doing things right off the mark, so I've created some fluff for my own upcoming little BT Primaris army.

 

After initially turning their noses up at Guiliman's offer of a free set of his shiny new armour, Guiliman requested an opportunity to at least show off what they can do.

An allied Sororitas convent agreed to supervise them on several training missions in order to prove they are worthy of joining the crusade proper. 

 

This fits in with my plan to run my new BT primaris marines alongside my current Sister of Battle army and will give me an excuse to start small with 8th edition before adding more and more Primaris units as they are released.

[Firepower]

That raises an interesting question of Primaris dispositions. Proper Marines wouldnt easily be convinced to operate under scrutiny of anyone, even other Marines, much less Sororitas. But Primates are new kids on the block, so I wonder if they're as aloof and self important.

 

Edit- leaving in that obvious Auto correct mistake because it makes me giggle :D

Edited June 7, 2017 by Firepower

[Schlitzaf]

Well I decided to incorporate Primaris into my army in the following manner. After the Idomitus Crusade, but before the Primaris Marines are shipped off to their "Progenitor" chapter. As noted RG had the various Primaris squads be mix of different Gene-Seeds. Some of these Primaris instead of wanting to be separated from their comrades, wished to stay and fight together.

 

Just like our Crusader Squads. My crusade has been decimated by several centuries long conflict on the Hazeroth Subsector, fighting a war against an Ork Wraagh! And a two Chaos Cults so have accepted the Primaris Marines as badly needed reinforcements. Under the auspices, they these new guys will learn our customs and traditions. But at the end of the day.

 

They want to destroy the Enemies of the Imperium, whom am I to stop them?

[Kastor Krieg]

A Brother called Jay Young posted these Primaris Templars of his Crusade to several FB pages. I have to say I dig this colour scheme.

 

http://i.imgur.com/BgtlQre.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/DzTZRhI.jpg

[Firepower]

That's how painters with actual skill do bone shoulders.  Such a show off 

Edited June 7, 2017 by Firepower

[Othniel's Blade]

I can't say I mind it. The designation of the one pauldron marks them as 'other,' for whatever reason the painter chose, while they are still tied in to the Chapter. (The flying Gravis, ehhhh) The posing of the rifle squad is quite imposing.

[Honda]

I like how they turned out as well, though I'm still not sold on the jump pack guys. I have some coming and am looking forward to working on them.

[TheOneTrueZon]

I'm going to have a field day re-posing those arms so they're both pointing in the same direction. 

 

Also, bayonets.

[BitsHammer]

I'm going to have a field day re-posing those arms so they're both pointing in the same direction. 

 

Also, bayonets.

Chainsword bayonets?

[Firepower]

 

I'm going to have a field day re-posing those arms so they're both pointing in the same direction. 

 

Also, bayonets.

Chainsword bayonets?

 

 

Who strapped this gun to my chainsword?!  :teehee:

[Acebaur]

I don't get, or really like the stripes on the shoulders, but then I'm a purist :lol:

 

And those flying guys, probably some of the worst poses in 40K, especially that guy in the center 

[d3m01iti0n]

Incredible paint job! Not feeling the stripes or white helms but hey, they're not real Templars so it's all good.

[Marshal Wolfhart]

Maybe they took the white helmets over from the Cadians (their recruits get white helmets) to mark those neophytes in power armor, so the initiates can eye them closely...

[+Chaplain Matthias+]

If you google Jay Young Black Templars, I think you'll see that the black and red stripes are just his personal crusade badge.

[BitsHammer]

Maybe they took the white helmets over from the Cadians (their recruits get white helmets) to mark those neophytes in power armor, so the initiates can eye them closely...

Whiteshields (as they're called) get a white stripe. White helmets are usually vet status for Marines. Perhaps he was marking them as Vets?