Primaris and the Black Templars

[Marshal Wolfhart]

How could he when they weren't even around long enough to deserve their power armor? :P

[BitsHammer]

How could he when they weren't even around long enough to deserve their power armor? :P

According to the Dark Imperium novel, they've been a project of Cawl,s for the last 10k years. He,s basically been stockpilijg the, while waiting for a means to wake Guilliman to be found.

 

Also not vat grown, but real humans chosen just like every other chapter.

[Sete]

Yeah shoehorning Primaris into the setting like that made me dislike them even more.

[Marshal Wolfhart]

I didn't know about them being properly... grown? Still they were held on Mars like cattle. They were not out there crusading, or at least defending the Imperium like other chapters do. They are also not induced into the specific ways of any chapter. What should make my Marshal accept them as accomplished warriors? Short answer, for me at least: nothing.

 

That said, i didn't hold any canon source about primaris in hand so far. Maybe there is more than what i picked up on the internet. Maybe they can fix the primaris story in the aftermath, too, but so far i'm not diggin' it.

[Marshal_Roujakis]

Apparently Primaris were given their own Chapter during their initial creation about 10,000 years ago... those Chapters operated like Legions, but for far more advance Astartes, they were being decimated... and during that time big G still didn't had a cut n his neck... big G decided to disband the Primaris Chapters and instead integrate them into the newly created Chapters... the Primaris didn't like it as they had their own organization and would prefer to work among their own kind... fortunately (or unfortunately) Guilliman had a date with Fulgrim's daemon dagger causing his orders regarding the Primaris deployment to be put on hold... forcing all of the created Primaris to go into stasis until Guilliman either wakes up, or some other Primarch gives the order to activate them...

[d3m01iti0n]

Omg the shoehorning is horrendous

[BitsHammer]

Omg the shoehorning is horrendous

 

Meh, it's better than the "we've actually ALWAYS had Centurion suits but haven't put them on the table despite them being around longer than Sisters". At least putting them on ice for 10k years is a feasible idea and could lend to a punch of pissed off old timer Primaris guys who are angry about the present Imperium.

 

Which could, again, lead to more rifts in the Imperium....you know...other than that giant warp rift.

[d3m01iti0n]

It feels like they came up with basic fluff for them, read everybody's complaints, and are slowly writing workarounds as they go alog to justify and sell them. They've got the Little Timmy's in their pocket, now it's time to win over the naysayers.

[BitsHammer]

Some of the fluff is from the novel which is already out and was written at least months ago. The rest is likely from the indexes or core rulebook.

 

So....it's like the fluff was already there but we're too busy jumping at shadows to stop meming about them for five minutes and see it....

[Sete]

The fluff was not there. No matter how you try to spin it. The closest you get is Raven Guard Raptors that failed horribly.

 

Cawl sprang out of nowhere with thousands of improved space marines and new tech.

[BitsHammer]

The fluff was not there. No matter how you try to spin it. The closest you get is Raven Guard Raptors that failed horribly.

Cawl sprang out of nowhere with thousands of improved space marines and new tech.

"New" tech that is largely based on existing tech (Mk VIII armour mainly), or Heresy era tech that may have STCs that were lost but Cawl is familiar with enough to recreate.

 

Yes, it is new stuff for the player, but the inclusion in the fluff is at least done far better than other "look at this new thing that has actually existed for at least four thousand years!" things we've seen before.

[Marshal Wolfhart]

That is a valid point, fulkes. On the other hand i'm not sure i like this bending stuff in more than a plain and honest retcon... i like new stuff. At the worst it's things i dislike and will not include. In any case it's more variety to the hobby.

I can see that once one has read the novel (or whatever more there is) that the primaris make more sense. Based off of what floats around on the internet it's an outright abomination of fluff, flavored with tons of salt and neckbeard tears :P

[Sete]

 

The fluff was not there. No matter how you try to spin it. The closest you get is Raven Guard Raptors that failed horribly.

Cawl sprang out of nowhere with thousands of improved space marines and new tech.

"New" tech that is largely based on existing tech (Mk VIII armour mainly), or Heresy era tech that may have STCs that were lost but Cawl is familiar with enough to recreate.

 

Yes, it is new stuff for the player, but the inclusion in the fluff is at least done far better than other "look at this new thing that has actually existed for at least four thousand years!" things we've seen before.

It's exactly the same thing tho. And you are trying to show them in different light.

 

And the inclusion on the fluff is horrendous just like the previous one was.

 

The fact that the Chad marines are from the heresy era makes me dislike them even more.

And the fact that the primaris characters shown, already displayed chapter behavior despite never having any contact with them.

 

The Primaris SW was a braggart and loud.

The DA one was secretive

The IH was dispassionate and already had a hand removed.

 

It made no sense. They never had contact with the parent chapter.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Sete

[BitsHammer]

Scouring Era is post Heresy actually, ~M31-M32.

 

And do you have proof they never had any contact with their parent chapters? Since some of them may be "uplifted" Marines (especially the command team) it's possible to carry those traditions and knowledge into the Primaris guys without any violations of lore.

 

Look, I get you don't like them but the fact remains they exist and there seems to have been a lot more thought put into the inclusion of these guys into the lore than you seem to be willing to give credit for.

[Sete]

Have you read Dark Imperium? If not read it.

Heresy is still M31. Scouring is just a continuation of the conflict after the defeat of Horus.

 

 

Nowhere it is shown that Marines have been uplifted. Not a single mention of it as of yet.

 

And I get it that you like them, but the fact remains that the fluff is poor, and their inclusion feels shoehorned.

[d3m01iti0n]

It's just propaganda to sucker Little Timmy in and so far it's working.

 

I wish they just manned up and said "hey were upscaling the Marine line but don't worry; you can use your current Marines until we upscale your characters, upgrade sprue, and additional units" instead of this wack fluff and a new faction. Space Marines as a whole need work, not ANOTHER chapter.

[Sete]

It is what it is.

I dont like it, but I don't judge people who does.

Fulkes likes it, more power to him. I don't. Maybe I'm missing out. But I can't get over the old fluff. Maybe they want to phase out old guard and cater new players.

And I'm not saying I'm old guard, I'm not.

But the fluff currently does not follow my vision of the grimdark 40k.

 

I'll leave the discussion as it is. It's off topic.

 

I reckon the Templars will accept the Primaris.

 

Shame we will lose our small divergent unique chapter unit for a streamlined configuration.

Finnaly GW will turn us into just another chapter.

[Honda]

+++ MOD VOICE +++

 

Let's remember that the enemy are not in this forum. It is Ok to "agree to disagree", but then let it go.  Sometimes our ZEAL can be a two edged sword, so let us remember to keep it focused on problem solving.

 

Grimaldus did not like the cards he was dealt.

 

He played his hand nonetheless.

 

So should we. The Primaris are here (soon) and no one is forcing anyone to buy or use them. No one is forcing anyone to give up their crusade's story.

 

You still get to choose how you play your games.

[BitsHammer]

Shame we will lose our small divergent unique chapter unit for a streamlined configuration.

Finnaly GW will turn us into just another chapter.

We didn't lose that when we went Vanilla. Assuming the worst and accepting it as fact is a bit too much in my opinion.

[Sete]

It's GW. My expectations are low. Edited June 9, 2017 by Sete

[BitsHammer]

It's GW. My expectations are low.

My expectations for Sisters are lower than Templars.

[Sete]

 

It's GW. My expectations are low.

My expectations for Sisters are lower than Templars.

Can't disagree on that

[Kastor Krieg]

Do cut down on the whole "Little Timmy" over and over again. It's repetitive and downright insulting to those of us who like the Primaris and their backstory.

 

Also, this quote rose up in the threads:
"Kord was a Terran, Unlike most of his peers in the 6th Company, who were born on Inwitt. Unlike many other Legions such distinctions meant very little and were rarely discernible; Lord Dorn teaching that, as the smallest hairline fracture might doom the mightiest walls, "Division is weakness" and therefore anathema to all the VIIth Legion stood for."---From 'The Horus Heresy Book 3: Extermination

Heed to the wisdom of the Primarch, this should be especially relevant in the camaraderie driven impromptu "squads" of Templars, in our more fluid structure. We do not shun the blood of Dorn, loyal servants of the Emperor.

 

It's not like any of them are witches, right? ;)

[Marshal_Roujakis]

Do cut down on the whole "Little Timmy" over and over again. It's repetitive and downright insulting to those of us who like the Primaris and their backstory.

 

Also, this quote rose up in the threads:

"Kord was a Terran, Unlike most of his peers in the 6th Company, who were born on Inwitt. Unlike many other Legions such distinctions meant very little and were rarely discernible; Lord Dorn teaching that, as the smallest hairline fracture might doom the mightiest walls, "Division is weakness" and therefore anathema to all the VIIth Legion stood for."---From 'The Horus Heresy Book 3: Extermination

 

Heed to the wisdom of the Primarch, this should be especially relevant in the camaraderie driven impromptu "squads" of Templars, in our more fluid structure. We do not shun the blood of Dorn, loyal servants of the Emperor.

 

It's not like any of them are witches, right?

 

That's the thing though... Bellisarius Cawl sort of wanted all of them to be Psykers similar to the GK so that they'd be more "Chaos-proof"... obviously this is to enable GW to shoehorn in GK Primaris as well... talking about looking into the future... wait... GW team are psykers? 

 

*unchains psyker in the brig, prepares Battlebarge, starts up engines, checks oil of devotions, initializes prayers, calls up the drunk helmsman, declares Crusade...

 

And though the general response to them might be to enjoy them, I for one am a little upset by their introduction as they completely overshadow all the events of the last 10,000 years... that's what happens when you put a "tool" n charge :p

[Lysere]

I'm more concerned how I'm going to paint the bulk of them, treat them as initiates, sword brothers? I'm thinking the lieutenants and the ancient at least will be sword brothers but not sure on the rest.