Summer Campaign - Fate of Konor

[Blindhamster]

Dark imperium doesn't go so far into the story. So... maybe not?

[Joe]

This is set pre-Dark Imperium, allegedly.

[Sete]

What a mess.If it's set before DI, GW can retcon this into another sistem saved by Guilliman if the loyalists lose.

It's a worthless campaign then.

[Joe]

It could be post-Dark Imperium. It'd be interesting if it was, and if it wound up as a Chaos victory. It'd be a major blow losing Konor, both emotionally (to Guilliman) and strategically (to the Imperium).

[DogWelder]

It could be post-Dark Imperium. It'd be interesting if it was, and if it wound up as a Chaos victory. It'd be a major blow losing Konor, both emotionally (to Guilliman) and strategically (to the Imperium).

 

It is post-Dark Imperium definitely but before 8th Edition and the end of the Plague Wars.

 

The way they phrase it seems like a more tactical move on part of the Chaos forces. To take the system and use it as a launch pad to surround Guilliman on Maccrage, rather than a war of conquest to destroy Konor itself. Tho Konor could still end up getting the Prandium treatment.

 

But yes, it would be a huge blow to Ultramar. Konor and Anauris are the two biggest manufacturing centers in Ultramar and it would be strategic loss if one of them was destroyed. 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Caius Tadius

[Marshal Loss]

Regardless of the importance of Konor - a world given lip-service more than any real attribution of import - we already know that even if the Death Guard take Konor, nothing happens. The war is already over, as it is a historical event. Assuming the DG win the global campaign, what happens then? A line in a future book that Guilliman faced a small conundrum before the DG retreated and he won the war anyway? As per the lore, it's already confirmed that even when the DG pollute worlds, because it's 'warp power' it can just be erased, because warp infused daemon powers are somehow less effective than conventional warheads, so there isn't even any guarantee that Konor will permanently fall.

 

They should have done this campaign in a new system, outside of the core worlds of Ultramar, where they could have built up a narrative with more potential in the future, and where the location didn't limit what could actually be done.

 

Don't get me wrong, if Konor falls (re: is destroyed permanently), great. The decision to end the Plague Wars before the Global Campaign is a bizarre decision though, in keeping with GW's dubious grasp of their own narrative.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Marshal Loss

[Blindhamster]

its post Dark Imperium (the book) as that

 

has Robute still looking for Mortarion at the end of the book having dealt with the first possible world Mortarion could have been on, he is then headed to a different world that isn't Konor (or its system) as he is sure Mortarion must be there.

We know that Eventually Mortarion and Death Guard will flee back to Papa Nurgle because the big cheese needs help due to the war in the warp, we know that the two Primarchs WILL fight, and that neither will win the actual duel, but we dont know the specifics of the war or who 'wins'

 

[Marshal Loss]

Mortarion launches a full invasion of Ultramar, but has to retreat for (X) reason. That's not a victory for the Death Guard, so we do know who 'wins,' and as per Dark Imperium & the Rulebook, the worlds conquered by the DG are able to be purified. Human lives are easily replaced, and the Primaris are in full production regardless. 

 

That's not really the point, anyway, I wouldn't care about the end result if it wasn't for the fact that we know the end result of the war before the Global Campaign even began. I find that bizarre.

[DogWelder]

Mortarion launches a full invasion of Ultramar, but has to retreat for (X) reason. That's not a victory for the Death Guard, so we do know who 'wins,' and as per Dark Imperium & the Rulebook, the worlds conquered by the DG are able to be purified. Human lives are easily replaced, and the Primaris are in full production regardless. 

 

That's not really the point, anyway, I wouldn't care about the end result if it wasn't for the fact that we know the end result of the war before the Global Campaign even began. I find that bizarre.I th

 

I think you have to consider the military strategy of the Death Guard when considering why he didn't do more permanent damage.

 

Note that they focused on taking a few key systems (Espandor, Iax, Konor) and having Typhus and the Plague fleet simply harass shipping lanes. They would launch lightning strikes on other planets but withdraw when confronted by Astartes. This was not the Shadow Crusade; ie: they were not seeking to win by conquering and destroying.

 

Rather they want to draw Guilliman back to Ultramar and throw everything they had at him, cutting him off, whittling his forces down and killing him, thereby winning a quick victory since they expect the 500 Worlds to fall after Guilliman was killed. Thats why they focused on using non-permanent biological weapons since they were more powerful and were more readily available for them to accomplish their objective.

 

Guilliman essentially turned this strategy on its head. He cut the Death Guard's supply lines, destroyed their Plague Engines and brought in constant reinforcements through his own well-defended supply lanes, thereby ruining this strategy.

[Joe]

I mean, it's been made pretty clear in past fluff that corruption isn't instantaneous.

[Marshal Loss]

And where exactly does it say that they chose particular kinds of non-permanent biological weapons with that explicit purpose in mind? The Death Guard, the Legion renowned as the guys who murder entire systems because their Primarch believes it cleanses the soul, use non-permanent weaponry because they're happy enough to kill everything later? No, thank you. Path of Heaven established that bio-weaponry and warp-weaponry are roughly analogous (go look). I am aware of the strategy, as i have read all the relevant materials. It's a cop-out.

 

Your love for all things Guilliman aside, that's not the point here at all, is it. I'm not disputing how Guilliman won the war. Or even whether he deserved to win - you'd have to be silly to think that GW would let anything major happen to him or his realm. The point is that he did win has already won, and the Global Campaign has not taken place yet. It's like GW decided to avoid accusations of ignoring the results by prematurely ignoring the results.

 

 

I mean, it's been made pretty clear in past fluff that corruption isn't instantaneous.

 

 

That's true, but it nevertheless ably illustrates the lack of any tangible long-term repercussions.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Marshal Loss

[DogWelder]

And where exactly does it say that they chose particular kinds of non-permanent biological weapons with that explicit purpose in mind? The Death Guard, the Legion renowned as the guys who murder entire systems because their Primarch believes it cleanses the soul, use non-permanent weaponry because they're happy enough to kill everything later?

 

This might be a bit off topic but this is somewhat expanded upon in Dark Imperium during the convo between Mortarion and Typhus. Typhus wants to lay waste to all of Ultramar and destroy every planet beyond the point of recovery before Guilliman arrives since he wants to spread the gifts of Nurgle.

 

Mortarion however, disagrees. He wants to hold his forces back and wait for his confrontation with Guilliman. Perhaps theres a sort of split in ideology here? With Typhus being closer to Nurgle than Mortarion is and the Death Guard primarch holding back from fully committing himself to the Plague God.

[Plaguecaster]

You know what would really be cool having Mortarion and his pestilent legion fully released in model form just in time to take part as it would be bit unfair if loyalists can take part using Guilliman but chaos can't use Mortarion when the whole campaign is about the two siblings fighting each other Edited July 2, 2017 by Plaguecaster

[Spinsanity]

I can't help but assume there's a very good reason why the actual fighting begins on the 29th. I'd wager Mortarion's gonna pop for preorder on the 22nd...

[Marshal Loss]

I can't help but assume there's a very good reason why the actual fighting begins on the 29th. I'd wager Mortarion's gonna pop for preorder on the 22nd...

 

If that happens, I will buy send you money for a beer through PayPal. Hold me to that. One time offer, folks.

 

I don't think Mortarion is going to be released for this campaign.

 

 

 

And where exactly does it say that they chose particular kinds of non-permanent biological weapons with that explicit purpose in mind? The Death Guard, the Legion renowned as the guys who murder entire systems because their Primarch believes it cleanses the soul, use non-permanent weaponry because they're happy enough to kill everything later?

 

This might be a bit off topic but this is somewhat expanded upon in Dark Imperium during the convo between Mortarion and Typhus. Typhus wants to lay waste to all of Ultramar and destroy every planet beyond the point of recovery before Guilliman arrives since he wants to spread the gifts of Nurgle.

 

Mortarion however, disagrees. He wants to hold his forces back and wait for his confrontation with Guilliman. Perhaps theres a sort of split in ideology here? With Typhus being closer to Nurgle than Mortarion is and the Death Guard primarch holding back from fully committing himself to the Plague God.

 

 

As I said above, I have read the book. As I also said above, nowhere does Mortarion or any other say that they intentionally used inferior bio-weaponry for this reason; they don't use any at all, save for the virus-bombs that cover their retreat at the conclusion of the war (which hopefully GW have the sense to make these at least do some long-term damage). Mortarion talks about poisoning the mind, body and soul of both Guilliman and his realm; a strategy that evidently woefully fails. It remains to be seen how/why Guilliman is going to be able to avoid Ku'gath's super plague.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Marshal Loss

[DogWelder]

 

I can't help but assume there's a very good reason why the actual fighting begins on the 29th. I'd wager Mortarion's gonna pop for preorder on the 22nd...

 

If that happens, I will buy send you money for a beer through PayPal. Hold me to that. One time offer, folks.

 

I don't think Mortarion is going to be released for this campaign.

 

 

 

And where exactly does it say that they chose particular kinds of non-permanent biological weapons with that explicit purpose in mind? The Death Guard, the Legion renowned as the guys who murder entire systems because their Primarch believes it cleanses the soul, use non-permanent weaponry because they're happy enough to kill everything later?

 

This might be a bit off topic but this is somewhat expanded upon in Dark Imperium during the convo between Mortarion and Typhus. Typhus wants to lay waste to all of Ultramar and destroy every planet beyond the point of recovery before Guilliman arrives since he wants to spread the gifts of Nurgle.

 

Mortarion however, disagrees. He wants to hold his forces back and wait for his confrontation with Guilliman. Perhaps theres a sort of split in ideology here? With Typhus being closer to Nurgle than Mortarion is and the Death Guard primarch holding back from fully committing himself to the Plague God.

 

 

As I said above, I have read the book. As I also said above, nowhere does Mortarion or any other say that they intentionally used inferior bio-weaponry for this reason; they don't use any at all, save for the virus-bombs that cover their retreat at the conclusion of the war (which hopefully GW have the sense to make these at least do some long-term damage). Mortarion talks about poisoning the mind, body and soul of both Guilliman and his realm; a strategy that evidently woefully fails. It remains to be seen how/why Guilliman is going to be able to avoid Ku'gath's super plague.

 

 

I bet it has something to do with the whole "Hand of Darkness" subplot. Didn't the audio dramas have Yvraine and her friends stealing the Hand of Darkness from Nurgle's garden when Guilliman asked them to iirc?

 

Perhaps thats what gives him an edge somehow

[Marshal Loss]

You could be right there, I haven't listened to the audio-dramas, so I can't comment. Dark Imperium does mention that Mortarion is using the Hand of Darkness though, to facilitate the corruption of Ultramar, so I assumed he still had it and that the audio-dramas occurred post-GS but pre-Plague Wars - again, I could be wrong.

[DogWelder]

You could be right there, I haven't listened to the audio-dramas, so I can't comment. Dark Imperium does mention that Mortarion is using the Hand of Darkness though, to facilitate the corruption of Ultramar, so I assumed he still had it and that the audio-dramas occurred post-GS but pre-Plague Wars - again, I could be wrong.

 

I heard that the audio dramas take place during to the Plague Wars. Since DI stated that Mortarion used the Hand of Darkness to craft the devices which he's using to pollute planets, perhaps the loss of the Hand of Darkness makes him lose the power to do so? In which case I would agree that it is a bit of a cop-out.

 

Not to mention that since Abaddon gifted the HoD to Mortarion, it would imply that Mortarion, Death Guard, 7 Greater Demons of Nurgle and a Greater Unclean One were incapable of carrying out the invasion without Abaddon's help.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Caius Tadius

[Lagrath]

Someone told me there are special Nurgle dice bags at GW store for purchases over $100. Anyone got a pic?

[Marshal Loss]

Someone told me there are special Nurgle dice bags at GW store for purchases over $100. Anyone got a pic?

 

 

Unfortunately, in Australia, you have to buy a stupid amount of stuff (1x Start Collecting, 1x LoW/Fortification, 1x Fast Attack, 1x Psyker, etc etc) to qualify, so no idea how I'm going to get one...

[Lord Marshal]

So you gain points for purchasing models in an event that takes place at the same time as they're releasing new loyalist Space Marine models? Hm, can't imagine what kind of result GW predict. Oh and there's a week where you earn double points for using Space Marines in your army. Really activates your almonds y'know? As I said on the first page somewhere, it's quite apparent they obviously DIDN'T learn any lessons from the AoS campaign considering the whole reason Order won so overwhelmingly was that they did nothing but put out Sigmarine and Sylvaneth stuff. 

 

Also wow, that Ultramarine bag looks awful. I'll stick to my £6 FFG 40k dice bags.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Lord Marshal

[Panzer]

Not to mention at a time where many Chaos player hold back on buying more models due waiting for a likely new model range and Legion releases. 

[Calyptra]

As a xenos player, I have not been given a reason to care, so I don't. I'd rather keep playing my own games, which can have stories that, you know, involve me.

 

Apparently there are 4 or 5 players in my club who really want to take part in this. They're all loyalist Marine players.

[Teun135]

Things could change if they drop ol' Morty... just throwing that out there.

[Lord Marshal]

Things could change if they drop ol' Morty... just throwing that out there.

 

Eh, it's looking like August is when we'll see the Death Guard. If we assume pre-orders go up the first week that still only leaves a couple of weeks for most of the new stuff to be bought and painted. Compare than to the Primarines who have both time and sheer player numbers on their side for it.

 

That's why this 'buy to win' nonsense was always going to result in an Imperial victory. By giving you the ability to literally score points by spending money it defaults to being a victory for the largest playerbase which is overwhelmingly the Imperium. For all people hawk on about the 'New GW' at least the previous Summer Campaigns didn't have this nonsense.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Lord Marshal