Dark Eldar Tactics

[TrawlingCleaner]

Has anyone used a talos or cronos yet? How did they go?

[Reyner]

I'm thinking about picking up Gangs of Commorragh and a DE Start Collecting set as the savings buying it all separately seem absolutely insane, would that be a good start to a force? 9 Reavers, 10 Helions, Kabalites and Archon in Raider?

 

Seems like a decent start for £63 :P I have a colour scheme in mind and once I have that lot I plan on some more squads in Raiders (Wyches or Kabalites or Incubi!) or a couple of Ravagers. 

[Brother Aiwass]

It's a great start indeed. I'm thinking to buy them myself just for the hellions, bikes and raider. 

[olsol]

Has anyone used a talos or cronos yet? How did they go?

I've used a couple of Talos in a game against space marines and a couple imperial knights... OMG they can soak up a lot of firepower. especially with a Haemonculus chilling around them. 

 

In that game one of the two survived 2 rounds of combat against one of the knight while doing at least 8 wounds in return. 

 

Haven't tested out the cronos yet. I probably won't, it doesn't look all that good to me

[TrawlingCleaner]

A bare bones Talos does a suprising amount of damage, ichor gauntlet look very good on paper too.

I played a game last night and wyches were very versatile, 4++ and 6+++ from pfp. 9 managed to tarpit 3 harlequins squads for 2 turns and killed 4, until Incubi could get in. Mandrakes were also very good in combat, managing to kill the harlequin equivalent of the venom (after 2 turns in combat and not losing a guy)

Shockprows seem pretty good too, killed a shadowseer that had 3 wounds left, which was mostly down to luck.

So far really enjoying dark eldar

[Slips]

Some news one can extrapolate from the Warhammer Community posts on codices is that we might see Chapter Tactics style rules for Kabals, Covens or Cults.

 

My main reason for thinking this is due to Lelith and her buff that only affects "Cult of Strife" models.

 

Then again, it could be nothing but itd be interesting to see.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

I'm thinking about picking up Gangs of Commorragh and a DE Start Collecting set as the savings buying it all separately seem absolutely insane, would that be a good start to a force? 9 Reavers, 10 Helions, Kabalites and Archon in Raider?

 

I'll second this because I recently picked up a Gangs of Commorragh for the more than 50% discount on the figures and the Start Collecting boxes are a similarly good deal. I'm eyeing the Eldar box for that $10 Fire Prism it comes with. :D

[SpiritFox22]

I'll be honest I've only played a few games of 8th so far.  So far I'm definitely impressed with how the Dark Eldar have came out.  Personally though my favorite unit of this edition so far has to be Mandrakes.

 

Last edition if you pulled them out it was purely for a fluff game and even then you accepted they weren't going to do much if anything all game except hide on an objective.

 

Now Mandrakes are useful against damn near everything.  Baleblast can be scary, sure it's only AP -1, but the fact that is deals Mortal Wounds on 6's in addition to it's regular damage turned it from barely better than a bolter to something most unit's don't want get into range of including high toughness vehicles/creatures.  Add the fact they're base 3 (2+their chainsword equiv) or 4 on the Nightfiend means they can fight pretty decently in melee if you need them to.

Sure Mandrakes rock the "7+" armor save with means they don't actually have one, but what they do have is a nifty little special rule that forces everything to subtract 1 to hit them and a 5+ invul to go along with it.  Which actually makes them more survivable than what they were last edition.

They also have their own "Deepstrike" which any player worth his salt can use to set them up for decent effect.

So far in all of my games my two squads of Mandrakes have absorbed FAR too much firepower, not even kidding I played a 1500pt game and they ate literally 2/3 of a Tau Gunline in a single round and still had 2 left alive.  Only reason they didn't get the other 1/3 was because of LoS.   Granted the fact that they were forced to hit the Mandrakes on 5's helped tremendously, plus the Markerlight debuff is making most Tau players cry.

[WhatTheBlazes]

So, had a 750pt game the other day against tyranids - I ran a very generic battalion detachment with a couple of warriors in venoms, some footslogging warriors, an archon or two, and some hellions. Came up hard against two units of 16 genestealers and two broodlords - with some ripper swarms. The immense threat ranges on these guys is horrifying, and they throw out a lot of attacks on the charge. I managed to kill one of the broods and their accompanying broodlord but it took a lot of firepower - the buffs from the characters and their psychic powers makes stealers quite tanky - and the other one managed to scoop up the rest of my units.

 

I also found that on a 4x4 table there just wasn't enough space to run away from them - a 20 inch or more possible charge range is a long old way. Still, it wasn't all bad and with some tweaking I think that the issues could be resolved - better movement with the venoms, focus on staying alive and taking the reduced number of splinter shots rather than going for the rapid fire ranges, etc etc. Made a couple of mistakes with the rules but overall it's a very playable system.

 

I'm considering upgrading my hellions to 10, those damage-2 weapons are ace at completely nullifying feel-no-pain type abilities and overall they are a pretty good fast assault unit. I'm plotting some Mandrakes as well - they sound ace. Maybe a Razorwing or Voidraven to dumpster these footslogging murderblobs? 

 

 

EDIT: Another thought - I'm aware of the crucible of malediction, but other than that, we don't have any psychic defences, do we? Oof. 

Edited July 6, 2017 by WhatTheBlazes

[Brother Aiwass]

Lots of things to consider. Thanks for sharing your experiencies!

 

I'm leaning more and more towards a tantalus gunboat with 3x5 trueborn (4 lances, 4 blasters and 4 splinter cannons to have some mobile firepower) and an HQ.

[Calyptra]

The other good thing about getting Gangs of Commorragh is that then you can play Gangs of Commorragh.

 

Small tables are not good for us. Speed is a lot less of an advantage if there's nowhere to go.

 

On a related note, never ever agree to play a game on Planet Bowling Ball. Or even Planet Bowling Ball With Some Stuff On It. I have this experience a lot, particularly with Marine players (who, in a Marines-heavy meta, may primarily play against other Marine players). It's not that they're trying to engineer a one-sided game, it's that it hasn't occurred to them that other armies can't wander around in the open relying on their Toughness and armor.

 

I played in an event recently (it was Shadow War, but the principal is the same) which featured a custom scenario that forced me to set my models up in the open on the center of the table. I objected, but didn't want to refuse to play (which I should have), and my opponent and the organizer didn't understand why I was complaining. My opponent got first turn and shot half my models off the table. I conceded, and both my opponent and the organizer apologized.

 

My point is that choosing where you fight is as important before the game as during it.

 

I also think the hobby is full of well-meaning players who don't understand that other people have armies and experiences unlike theirs. You have to tell them, because setting your army up like a shooting gallery for your opponent probably won't be a fun game for either of you.

 

(Shaking them vigorously while shouting, "What part of Toughness 3 and no armor is difficult for you to understand?" is not a productive strategy for communicating that.)

[E_50_Panzer]

The other good thing about getting Gangs of Commorragh is that then you can play Gangs of Commorragh.

Small tables are not good for us. Speed is a lot less of an advantage if there's nowhere to go.

On a related note, never ever agree to play a game on Planet Bowling Ball. Or even Planet Bowling Ball With Some Stuff On It. I have this experience a lot, particularly with Marine players (who, in a Marines-heavy meta, may primarily play against other Marine players). It's not that they're trying to engineer a one-sided game, it's that it hasn't occurred to them that other armies can't wander around in the open relying on their Toughness and armor.

I played in an event recently (it was Shadow War, but the principal is the same) which featured a custom scenario that forced me to set my models up in the open on the center of the table. I objected, but didn't want to refuse to play (which I should have), and my opponent and the organizer didn't understand why I was complaining. My opponent got first turn and shot half my models off the table. I conceded, and both my opponent and the organizer apologized.

My point is that choosing where you fight is as important before the game as during it.

I also think the hobby is full of well-meaning players who don't understand that other people have armies and experiences unlike theirs. You have to tell them, because setting your army up like a shooting gallery for your opponent probably won't be a fun game for either of you.

(Shaking them vigorously while shouting, "What part of Toughness 3 and no armor is difficult for you to understand?" is not a productive strategy for communicating that.)

I'll have to remember this for once my army gets off the ground. However, pathetic is the Dark Eldar who only shakes his opponent and shouts at him.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

That's just step one.  The blades and poisons come later.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Would a succubus ever be preferred over an archon? And just out of curiosity, what's a good loadout for a succubus this edition?

[MoGuy]

The Succubus is good when you run Wyches/Bloodbrides with her. 

[Nusquam]

Been doing a lot of thinking about 8E mechanics and DE. The more I do so the more I dislike Venoms. They inflate your Units count and increase your chances of going second which is the worst case for DE. And they did not scale well stats-wise and are less than paper thin. They will fold and die very easily and lose you first blood. If they had a deepstrike rule they would be great. Scourges are just better; they can be reserved, move 14", have access to blasters and cost less than a Blasterborn squad in a venom. Sure you lose out on the dual splinter cannons(Which are Rapid Fire 3 and require to get much closer to use well and thus increase their exposure to fire) but you gain the advantage of increasing you chances of going first by reserving the Scourges. As well as limiting what your opponent can shoot while optimizing your alpha strike potential. I don't see any benefit that Venoms bring that isn't outdone by mechanical disadvantage or by advantage to scourges.

 

ALso the more I love the Tantalus for reasons already stated.

 

Raiders are on the fence for me. I think the Tantalus would draw enough hate that Raiders can slip by or at the very least not get focused down. With transports not having a unit cap and instead only having a model cap; you can fit two different squads into one Raider, thus cutting down your unit count for deploying and determining who goes first. You can put two trueborn squads in them with eight long range heavy/special weapons and have some serious long range firepower. Or Put two Warrior/Wrack squads in it just to consolidate units. That would count as 3 units deployed with one placement. This increases the amount of Scourges/Mandrakes you can reserve and helps go first.

 

Speaking of consolidating units/opening up to have more reserved; the court of the archon does just that. With 4 characters in one transport that counts as 5. Add Warriors to tank and thats six units for the sake of deployment. With two raiders you can fit your 2 HQs, 3 court characters and 3x5 warrior squads into 2 raiders. That's ten units on the board by placing only two. That's the minimum for a Battalion in two models deployed. Change out the Warriors for Blasterborn and thats a nasty alpha strike. You have a 1in6 of getting obliterated from seize however. But using warriors and then filling out your list with things like RWJFs, Scourges, Mandrakes and such you could make for a potent glass cannon.

 

DE need to use every method of minimizing physical models deployed to ensure going first. We're just too fragile to risk going second beyond a 1in6 chance.

[Slips]

Would a succubus ever be preferred over an archon? And just out of curiosity, what's a good loadout for a succubus this edition?

Theyre a pure CC character that always has a 4++ available vs an Archons 2++ until you fail. So if you roll a 1 right off the bat, Archon is squishier esp. if you dont have a command point reroll available. 

 

Thta said, I just like the monopose models loadout: Archite Glaive and Agonizer. Lets you hate on pretty much everything but vehicles rather reliably. You lose out on access to a Blast Pistol however but, its not that big a deal.

 

theyre only really worth it with Bloodbrides (perferrably) or wyches in tow since on T3 onwards pretty much everything is hitting on 2s rerolling 1s and with Ws2+, if shes affected by a -1 to hit, T3 PfP bonus negates that which is a nice thing to have.

 

 If you give her the +1S drug, then you could get away with running Archite Glaive + Shooty.

 

Im still going to run Lelith + Succubus though with my Wych Cult so that I have more aoe buff coverage and a pair of characters than can still murder stuff pretty reliably (lelith loses out vs High T than the succubus due to no access to Poisones weaps).

[Brother Aiwass]

Been doing a lot of thinking about 8E mechanics and DE. The more I do so the more I dislike Venoms. They inflate your Units count and increase your chances of going second which is the worst case for DE. And they did not scale well stats-wise and are less than paper thin. They will fold and die very easily and lose you first blood. If they had a deepstrike rule they would be great. Scourges are just better; they can be reserved, move 14", have access to blasters and cost less than a Blasterborn squad in a venom. Sure you lose out on the dual splinter cannons(Which are Rapid Fire 3 and require to get much closer to use well and thus increase their exposure to fire) but you gain the advantage of increasing you chances of going first by reserving the Scourges. As well as limiting what your opponent can shoot while optimizing your alpha strike potential. I don't see any benefit that Venoms bring that isn't outdone by mechanical disadvantage or by advantage to scourges.

 

ALso the more I love the Tantalus for reasons already stated.

 

Raiders are on the fence for me. I think the Tantalus would draw enough hate that Raiders can slip by or at the very least not get focused down. With transports not having a unit cap and instead only having a model cap; you can fit two different squads into one Raider, thus cutting down your unit count for deploying and determining who goes first. You can put two trueborn squads in them with eight long range heavy/special weapons and have some serious long range firepower. Or Put two Warrior/Wrack squads in it just to consolidate units. That would count as 3 units deployed with one placement. This increases the amount of Scourges/Mandrakes you can reserve and helps go first.

 

Speaking of consolidating units/opening up to have more reserved; the court of the archon does just that. With 4 characters in one transport that counts as 5. Add Warriors to tank and thats six units for the sake of deployment. With two raiders you can fit your 2 HQs, 3 court characters and 3x5 warrior squads into 2 raiders. That's ten units on the board by placing only two. That's the minimum for a Battalion in two models deployed. Change out the Warriors for Blasterborn and thats a nasty alpha strike. You have a 1in6 of getting obliterated from seize however. But using warriors and then filling out your list with things like RWJFs, Scourges, Mandrakes and such you could make for a potent glass cannon.

 

DE need to use every method of minimizing physical models deployed to ensure going first. We're just too fragile to risk going second beyond a 1in6 chance.

Great insight Nusquam. Following your line of thought, here's a sample list i just did to see how your low deployment theory can be implemented.

 

Battallion (+3 CP)

 

HQ

 

2x1 Archon

Court - 2 Lhamaean + 1 Medusae

 

Elites

 

2x5 Blasterborn

2x10 Mandrakes

 

Troops

 

4x5 Warriors+Splintercannon

 

Fast

 

3x5 Blaster scourges

 

Heavy

 

1 Tantalus

 

Dedicated

 

2 Raiders with dissie -- 2k flat!

 

Archons, court and Trueborn ride the (lightning) Tantalus, Warriors the Raiders and everything else DS. Deploying 12 units by placing 3. Looks nice on paper, but I'm not sure how much this list will love hordes.

[Zectz]

Theyre a pure CC character that always has a 4++ available vs an Archons 2++ until you fail. So if you roll a 1 right off the bat, Archon is squishier esp. if you dont have a command point reroll available.

 

Just a small point but unfortunately you can't use a command point to reroll the shadowfield save. The rule under the Archon profile says "which cannot be rerolled for any reason". Which I think is fair enough as it would be a bit overpowered if we could...

[MoGuy]

 

 

 but you gain the advantage of increasing you chances of going first by reserving the Scourges

 

Nope, deploying something in reserve still counts as a "drop". So you would deploy Scourges in reserve and then it would be your opponent's turn to deploy something etc.

 

Venoms on the other hand actually reduce the amount of drops since the Venom plus its occupants only count as a single drop.

 

I think Venoms are phenomenal! They are way sturdier than last edition and they aren't the flying deathtraps anymore that they used to be. Also of course they still die quite easy! What did you expect? Scourges can't deepstrike within RFR with their Shard Carbines. They alright as shocktroops with some Blasters etc. but they will just get focus-fired after they arrived. Blasterborn in a Venom on the other hand are pretty much equally fast but can threaten infantry and vehicles alike plus they don't die as easily since you first have to destroy the Venom.

 

What's true (and has been for us for quite some time) is that our army still needs targetsaturation to function. Two Venoms at 2000 points won't cut it. They'll just die in one or two turns. Four Venoms on the other hand are enough to last a while and will do a lot of damage.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

 

but you gain the advantage of increasing you chances of going first by reserving the Scourges

Nope, deploying something in reserve still counts as a "drop". So you would deploy Scourges in reserve and then it would be your opponent's turn to deploy something etc.

 

Venoms on the other hand actually reduce the amount of drops since the Venom plus its occupants only count as a single drop.

 

Also incorrect. First you deploy the transport, then you have to deploy a unit into the transport.

[MoGuy]

Nope, when you set up your transport you have to declare what's in it. It's only one drop even if it transports three different units etc. 

[Nusquam]

When you set up a transport, units can start the battle embarked within it instead of being set up separately...

BRB 183 "Transports" So they aren't separate drops.

 

 

Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on...

 

BRB 215 "Tactical Reserves"

 

Then read any of the deployment rules for missions about setting up models on the battlefield. You don't have an opportunity to have an individual "drop" for things that are held in some sort of reserve; you only take turns placing things that would be on the table.

 

So you can consolidate with transports and things reserved never get a chance to be in line during deployment. They are either deployed in sequence during deployment on the field or withheld in reserve.

 

 

 

*snip*

 

Archons, court and Trueborn ride the (lightning) Tantalus, Warriors the Raiders and everything else DS. Deploying 12 units by placing 3. Looks nice on paper, but I'm not sure how much this list will love hordes.

 

 

Pretty potent. Hordes are going to be hard for any army. DE don't have a whole lot in the way of dakka outside of splinter cannons and Razorwing Missiles. Razorwing flocks however have 8A each.They could make for a funny way of reducing a hordes numbers. Against T4 they would struggle but T3 wouldn't be so bad. At they very least they would offer a good speedbump. Wyches/Bllodbrides would be the go to for sheer number of attacks. Add a Succubus for rerolls, +1A drug, and they could take a large bite out of hordes.

 

I'm considering something similair:

 

 

New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [103 PL, 1998pts]

Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari)

• HQ
  • Archon [4 PL, 68pts]

    Agoniser, Blast Pistol

  • Haemonculus [5 PL, 80pts]

    Agoniser, Crucible of Malediction, Haemonculus tools, Splinter Pistol

• Troops
  • Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 64pts]
    • 3x Kabalite Warrior
    • Kabalite Warrior with special weapon

      Blaster

    • Sybarite

      Agoniser, Blast Pistol

  • Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 64pts]
    • 3x Kabalite Warrior
    • Kabalite Warrior with special weapon

      Blaster

    • Sybarite

      Agoniser, Blast Pistol

  • Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 64pts]
    • 3x Kabalite Warrior
    • Kabalite Warrior with special weapon

      Blaster

    • Sybarite

      Agoniser, Blast Pistol

  • Wracks [6 PL, 123pts]
    • Acothyst

      Haemonculus tools, Hexrifle

    • Wrack with special weapon (up to 1 for 5 models)

      Haemonculus Tools, Ossefactor

    • 7x Wracks

      7x Haemonculus Tools

• Fast Attack
  • Scourges [6 PL, 140pts]
    • Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon x4

      Blaster

    • Solarite

      Blast Pistol

  • Scourges [6 PL, 140pts]
    • Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon x4

      Blaster

    • Solarite

      Blast Pistol

  • Hornets [27 PL, 450pts]

    • Crystal Targeting Matrix, 2x Hornet Pulse Laser x3

• Heavy Support
  • Tantalus [18 PL, 350pts]
• Flyer
  • Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 170pts]

    2 Dark Lances, Splinter Cannon

  • Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 170pts]

    2 Dark Lances, Splinter Cannon

• Dedicated Transport
  • Raider [6 PL, 115pts]

    Dark Lance

[Spiritual Liege]

So is the Tantalus an autoinclude? Every list seems to have atleast one, my wallet doesn't appreciate it at all :P

[SpiritFox22]

So is the Tantalus an autoinclude? Every list seems to have atleast one, my wallet doesn't appreciate it at all

Well for the stat's is downright amazing.  As for your wallet mine is in the same position.