Unit of the Week: Dreadnoughts

[Timur]

I'm finding I don't like flamers much, even str. 5 ones.  I have a H. flamer on my Ironclad cause I find it more useful than a melta-gun.

 

Also, I've been playing more w/ Venerable Autocannon, and Venerable 2xLas/ML, since I don't have to proxy them.   They have been working out very well.

 

I'm thinking now that I may not be getting a Redemptor.  It's cost makes it hard to fit in a list, plus it doesn't seem any better than those two ven. dread load-outs.

 

Dakkademptor ain't cheap.

 

Though now this begs the question @ 2k do I want 2 Ven. 2xLas/ML with my Contemptor w/ Kheres, Ven Rifleman, and Ironclad?

Or do I want 1 Ven. 2xLas/ML, *2xContemptor w/ Kheres*, Ven. Rifleman, and Ironclad?

 

Choices.

Edited August 19, 2017 by Timur

[TopToffee]

Do we have any sort of consensus opinion on the best load out for Leviathans?

 

I'm heading over to Warhammer World tomorrow, and seriously considering picking one up to go with my Redemptor.

[LucidNinja]

Leviathans seem to be best loaded with 2 Grav bombardments. I'll be doing 1 Grav 1 storm cannon when I eventually build my all naught army

[SydonianDragoon404]

Kind of a waste of 4 attacks that swing at 2+ with nice damage and AP profiles if you ask me. But then again I'm not trying to min/max, and I guess according to you two I took the worst loadout possible with the Cyclonic Melta Lance, even though I instagibbed a Land Raider yesterday. But that's none of my business I guess... 

[Prot]

Played against a Redemptor with the fragstorm launcher thingies the other night. It seemed pretty decent but I think that the storm bolters are probably better value for points. Weirdly it had a flamer as well; it seemed like a poor choice of secondary armament when you have the option of MOAR DAKKA in the form of the gatling cannon. It never got close enough to anything to flame anything!

 

While I agree with the Stormbolter bang for the buck idea, I actually am dropping the arm mounted Gatling Cannon for a heavy flamer. Moving, shooting, damaged, means with the Gatling you're hitting on 5's... that sucks. Heavy Flamer moving when damaged gets me those shots autohitting. I find the Redemptors draw immense firepower, and I rarely go more than one turn undamaged. The heavy flamer helps mitigate that damage a lot.

[Lemondish]

Kind of a waste of 4 attacks that swing at 2+ with nice damage and AP profiles if you ask me. But then again I'm not trying to min/max, and I guess according to you two I took the worst loadout possible with the Cyclonic Melta Lance, even though I instagibbed a Land Raider yesterday. But that's none of my business I guess... 

 

Well, as usual, the number one rule (should be) play your dudes. However, I would like to point out that you probably will not have a good time if you base your loadout decisions off single events like that ;)

[CCE1981]

How is the Chaplain Dreadnought? I am looking into an all dread list and can't decide how I want to do it. The only ways I can find right now are Blood Angels Librarian Dreadnought, Bjorn, or Chaplain Dreadnought all of which are over 200 pts.

[Firepower]

At first the Chaplain Dread looked very appealing, until I noticed the buff for friendlies only works for units in the same combat, not as a general aura for all units in range.  Although I think the rule also works on the Dread itself.  Not entirely sure.

 

That aside, it's a strong melee bot that can shrug off wounds on a 6, has a 5+ invulnerable, and can take an Inferno Cannon.  So it's a lot like an Ironclad being a largely melee purposed Dread with high survivability, but it doesn't have the Ironclad's 8 Toughness and comes with a noticeably larger price tag.

 

Not the auto-buy I thought it was at first glance, but still strong.  The first use that comes to mind is dropping out of a Raven with some hammer marines to smash the ever loving snot out of something very, very tough with a lot of wounds.

 

I'm not familiar with Bjorn or the BA dread, so I can't tell you which way to go on that.  I'd say it largely depends on what army rules you want (SW, BA, or C:SM).  I hadn't realized until now though that the Chaplain is an HQ rather than an Elite.  Interesting.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Firepower

[CCE1981]

I think that is the main reason for their costs to be where they are, they cannon be targetted while other units are closer. As long as the Warlord trait isn't the one with +1 wound, just take ghe brb version instead.

[Yodhrin]

After much back & forth with myself I've decided I rather like the Redemptor model...except for the goofy weapons loadout. Conveniently, the Redemptor is about the same size as a "truescale" Leviathan would be and FW sell Leviathan weapons separately, so a not-Leviathan Mortis it shall be.

​

​I can't really decide how to set it up though. The weapon I most like the look of is the Storm Cannon, but every discussion I see on the 8th ed rules is pushing the Bombard as substantially superior with the Lance as situationally awesome but otherwise mediocre - is the SC worth it for the sake of reliability(better range, fixed shots, fixed damage), or will the Bombard always outclass it over the course of a game?

[Claws and Effect]

Is there a significant difference between the regular Contemptor and the Relic version other than additional weapons options?

 

I ask because I have a FW Raven Guard Contemptor that is armed with the standard Kheres/fist loadout. Am I losing out by not going with the Relic?

 

(I'm not asking for the rules, just whether or not there is a major difference).

[Frater Cornelius]

Tried the Ironclad a couple times in a Primaris army. I was not impressed. The dakka is replaceable, the strong melee capsbilities.were wasted, because most threatening big stuff usually must die at range and the Ironclad's melee usually just killed a few 1W guys and that was it. Redemptor still going strong though. Not seeing it go any time soon.

[Timur]

Regarding the Relic Contemptor, in addition to weapon options from FW/30k the relic Contemptor gets a wound save like a venerable, better save and a Wd.

 

If you go for all the trimmings it can get quite expensive.   However keeping it "stock" will net you a wound save, a 2+ armor save, and a wound for around 40 or so points more.  

So a good buy IMO if you have another no relic unit in the slot (does the rule mean another Contemptor or just mean you need to have more elites be non relics?) and your opponent is ok w/ FW.

 

If you've come this far in thinking about adding FW Contemptors, take a gander @ the Contemptor Mortis.  That thing w/ dual Kheres or Lascannons w/ token cyclone launcher is frightening.

 

Full disclosure:  I proxied a Con. Mortis w/ Kheres last edition to great effect.  So much so that when a fuggled up regular Contemptor was available from an e-bay hoarder, I snatched it up, cleaned it up, and now it's a staple of my army.

[Claws and Effect]

I already have the model 99% done. Raven Guard Contemptor from FW.

 

I'll probably decide on a game by game basis which way I want to run it. Better save, FNP equivalent, and an extra wound seems like a decent deal for 40 points.

[Corback]

I am painting a new army so I don't want old marines or old tanks knowing there will probably be a primaris battle tank someday. I am not a huge fan of the Repulsor either.

 

So I was thinking, would contemptor mortis or relic comteptors with 2 twin lascannons be good choices as anti-tank units? Are they resilient enough since they will be focused on?

[Timur]

If you want/are able to use FW, then yes Contemptor Mortis w/ LC's or Kheres + Cyclone ML is a truly scary beast.  (This is from last edition, having been using reg. Contemtor all the time this edition I'm sure it still holds).

 

There is not much more resilient than a T7 multi-wound dread w/ 3+5++.  If you have a techmarine than his stats won't even drop for long if hit.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Timur

[Ebon Hand]

After much back & forth with myself I've decided I rather like the Redemptor model...except for the goofy weapons loadout. Conveniently, the Redemptor is about the same size as a "truescale" Leviathan would be and FW sell Leviathan weapons separately, so a not-Leviathan Mortis it shall be.

​

​I can't really decide how to set it up though. The weapon I most like the look of is the Storm Cannon, but every discussion I see on the 8th ed rules is pushing the Bombard as substantially superior with the Lance as situationally awesome but otherwise mediocre - is the SC worth it for the sake of reliability(better range, fixed shots, fixed damage), or will the Bombard always outclass it over the course of a game?

I truly think the grav bombard will see a point increase eventually. It's a really hard vehicle and monster counter and good vs heavy infantry but not that great vs hordes. Really great AV close to the Cyclonic Melta in power but you pay for it.

 

The storm cannon is good vs infantry and decent vs transports but not that great vs heavy vehicles.

 

The Cyclonic Melta is anti heavy vehicles, with more reliable rate of fire than the bombard but more random damage if not in melta range. I'm not surprised Sydo demolished a Land Raider with it, between a command pointed cyclonic melta and a charge with either of the claws, that's a lot of damage. It's the most expensive of the three though.

 

I'd advise sticking to whatever you like best or just getting multiple arms so you can swap. I'm not sure how long it will take for the next round of balance changes on Forgeworld, but I'm thinking they will eventually tweak things.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Ebon Hand

[RandomMarine]

What does every think the optimal points to punch dread is?

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Space Wolves Dreadnought with storm shield and axe. Otherwise, a Venerable Dreadnought with two twin-linked autocannons.

[Captain Idaho]

A Venerable Dreadnought with Lascannon and missile Launcher is up there too.

 

You'll be shooting down aircraft and everything with it.

[Timur]

2nd. the ven. dread w/ 2xLC/ML.

 

I also raise Contemptor w/ Kheres/Big Fist as well.  Same points as above but CC oriented and a lil' sturdier.

[Captain Idaho]

I actually think, for taking the fight to the opponent, Contemptors are superior to even a Redemptor.

 

The Contemptor has the following benefits going for it:

 

- The Contemptor has the highest movement allowance of any Dreadnought Space Marine have access to.

 

- The Contemptor has the best stats possible (2+ WS and BS).

 

- The Contemptor can still put damage on the enemy whilst moving. Ordinary Dreadnoughts and the Redemptor just can't be relied upon for their points value costs.

 

- Thanks to the 5+ invulnerable save, the 10 wounds of the Contemptor actually makes it as survivable as the Redemptor against single shot anti-tank weapons.

 

- In close combat the Contemptor hits on a 2+ which is incredibly good compared to Redemptor Dreadnoughts.

 

***

 

Of course, I just don't rate the Redemptor for it's points cost. I wanted a giant Dreadnought but unfortunately it's use is pretty much a gun platform that is harder to kill in close combat. For 200pts I'd rather other shooting platforms.

 

Ignoring that bias, this post is still relevant - the Contemptor is still the best assault force Dreadnought.

 

The Ironclad might be an exception due to its amazing toughness value, but the stats of a Contemptor and its invulnerable save do push the Contemptor head and shoulders above the Ironclad.

[Firepower]

The Ironclad might be an exception due to its amazing toughness value, but the stats of a Contemptor and its invulnerable save do push the Contemptor head and shoulders above the Ironclad.

 

:reluctant rimshot:

[Ishagu]

At first the Chaplain Dread looked very appealing, until I noticed the buff for friendlies only works for units in the same combat, not as a general aura for all units in range. Although I think the rule also works on the Dread itself. Not entirely sure.

 

That aside, it's a strong melee bot that can shrug off wounds on a 6, has a 5+ invulnerable, and can take an Inferno Cannon. So it's a lot like an Ironclad being a largely melee purposed Dread with high survivability, but it doesn't have the Ironclad's 8 Toughness and comes with a noticeably larger price tag.

 

Not the auto-buy I thought it was at first glance, but still strong. The first use that comes to mind is dropping out of a Raven with some hammer marines to smash the ever loving snot out of something very, very tough with a lot of wounds.

 

I'm not familiar with Bjorn or the BA dread, so I can't tell you which way to go on that. I'd say it largely depends on what army rules you want (SW, BA, or C:SM). I hadn't realized until now though that the Chaplain is an HQ rather than an Elite. Interesting.

He's not only a HQ, but he's also a character meaning he can't be shot at unless he's closest.

 

Imo this is the more competitive of the regular Dreadnought variants. A Twin Lascannon is the best weapon option unless you're transporting him by Pod or Raven.

 

He can advance, provide accurate firepower on the move and function as an impressive counter charge unit.

[Captain Idaho]

That's if you're into Forge World ;)