Our very own chapter focus! :>

[Extropian]

Agressors are Autoinclude for me now.

Hellblaster sounds good too. But we need some long range firepower like devastors

Shooty Aggressors are just so insanely good with SFTS. I half expect a nerf somehow, somewhere.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

Agressors are Autoinclude for me now.

Hellblaster sounds good too. But we need some long range firepower like devastors

Shooty Aggressors are just so insanely good with SFTS. I half expect a nerf somehow, somewhere.

 

 

Easiest one would be no Gravis Keyword or Primaris or whatever it is too good

[Extropian]

No Gravis would make sense. It doesn't truly fit with the stealth theme anyway.

[Nusquam]

I doubt there will be a nerf.  I suspect this is the edition of crazy good everything.

[Extropian]

I doubt there will be a nerf.  I suspect this is the edition of crazy good everything.

Possibly, though here's a lot of Storm Raven spam owners with buyers remorse right now that might disagree :D

[Race Bannon]

 

I doubt there will be a nerf.  I suspect this is the edition of crazy good everything.

Possibly, though here's a lot of Storm Raven spam owners with buyers remorse right now that might disagree :D

Proof that when something is *that good*, then it's too good to be true. Or last long.

 

Except in marriage. Oh, wait ...

[SyNidus]

I'm a little underwhelmed by aggressors. They lack AP for their shooting and i have enough dakka with my stormravens (only 2).

[ebonknight]

I'm a little underwhelmed by aggressors. They lack AP for their shooting and i have enough dakka with my stormravens (only 2).

Someone did the math and they are close to if not the best PPW vs any kind of infantry in the game. (at least the dakka version)

[SkimaskMohawk]

Not sure which thread you're talking about, but that's simply untrue. They're very good against power armour and lower, but a 2+ will cut their effectiveness down to close to 6 wounds on average, meaning that cover alone helps mitigate damage by a fair margin. T5-7 with a 3+ results in 8.6 wounds, again not a squad wipe and usually halved because they tend to have two wounds or some other defensive capability. 

 

Maybe you didn't mean any kind of infantry as any unit with the infantry keyword?

[duz_]

By the sounds of Signals from the Frontline it would appear our Chapter strategem is limited to one use in deployment as per the 1 per phase rule in general. Which kinda sucks but at the same time makes sense and avoids some really silly stuff.

[ebonknight]

Not sure which thread you're talking about, but that's simply untrue. They're very good against power armour and lower, but a 2+ will cut their effectiveness down to close to 6 wounds on average, meaning that cover alone helps mitigate damage by a fair margin. T5-7 with a 3+ results in 8.6 wounds, again not a squad wipe and usually halved because they tend to have two wounds or some other defensive capability. 

 

Maybe you didn't mean any kind of infantry as any unit with the infantry keyword?

 

Ah yea, meant troops. Here's the thread I saw: https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/6p91zr/some_thoughts_on_the_new_space_marine_codex/

 

By the sounds of Signals from the Frontline it would appear our Chapter strategem is limited to one use in deployment as per the 1 per phase rule in general. Which kinda sucks but at the same time makes sense and avoids some really silly stuff.

 

Strike from the shadows happens before the game begins, so unless its FAQ I would feel safe arguing that it can be used multiple times

[SkimaskMohawk]

By the sounds of Signals from the Frontline it would appear our Chapter strategem is limited to one use in deployment as per the 1 per phase rule in general. Which kinda sucks but at the same time makes sense and avoids some really silly stuff.

 

If they read the rules properly, they'd know it's not.

 

Reminds of me of the infamous stream that told people that ranges were measured to weapons in 8th

[Bluthusten]

Agressors are not for killing elite units. But you can kill all the screening units like Concripts, Brimstones, Boyz etc. Even when strike from the Shadows is limited by one. Just put the Agressors wherever you want and shock Shrike next to them, or jump/advance next to them. So the agressor"bomb" still works for me :D

 

The new obsec thing is so strong, i need to take 2-3 marine squads in Rhinos.

 

Then i need my 15 Vanguards + Librarian.

And 2 squads Devastors...and a Assassin...

 

There is no space (points) for more stuff which benefits from strike from the shadows :D so limited to 1 would be okay for me haha

[Bluthusten]

I'm at a complete new point for a Ravenguard army:

 

Ravenguard isn't the aggressive army with first turn charges and all in tactics, no. We wait for the perfect shot, we'll siting behind a LOS block a wait for the one unit which we can wipe off in a single round. Not gambling with deepstrike an mayybbeee get the 9" charge or place 2 Vanguards with Sfts and charge right in without the rest of the army.

 

 

I will benefit from sfts yes, but not this way. My thoughs:

 

A pretty solid gunline at ~30" range:

 

-Primaris Captain for the hit buff and some punch for enemy deepstrikers or very fast melee units.

- 2 units of Devastors with Lasca/Missiles

- 1 Unit of Intercessors with Stalker Boltguns

 

They all will benefit from our Chapter Tactic (-1 hit for the enemy at 12"+ range) and they hold our home objective

 

Than we need objective grabbers:

 

2 5 man tacticals in Rhinos. Pretty solid standard, they maybe get some special weapons. With the new ObSec the enemy will hate us on Maelstrom.

 

1 5-10 Tacticals with Flamer placed at a midfield marker with sfts.

 

Then we take a midrange monster unit, aka Agressors. Place them in a sweet spot and shot. Don't move, just shot with rerolls from Shrike it's a powerful alphastrike.

 

 

At least we need our Vanguard Vetetans / Interceptor to clean up, countercharge, get "linebreaker" at all the stuff for fast units. With the support from our gunline and the 2 Rhinos + Midrange Agressors (in a perfect spot) they can do whatever they want.

 

On thuesday i get my Index, so I can check up points for my list idea.

 

What do you think guys?

 

I struggle at the "Razorback or Rhino"-thing...maybe you can help me :D

Edited July 25, 2017 by Bluthusten

[thewarriorhunter]

I'm looking forward to picking up the codex. I need to really reevaluate how I play my RG. I love jump packs and deep striking but it never seems to work for me and I end up putting units in the meat grinder.

[Shrieker]

SFTS strikes me as a better delivery system for units that otherwise would need wheels or wings. Never thought much of termies before, owing to the need for a LR or SR to deliver them, which'd happen t2 at best. Now they might be in the fight turn one, with 250pts to spare.

[Race Bannon]

Thank you Shrieker, exactly.

[Alcyon]

I agree with all of the above. This CT allows for a more gunline approach to list building, with our mobile elements for mop-up and objective grabbing. BUT! It also allows us to make nearly guaranteed 1st turn charges, even with non-JP units - 9" away from an enemy minus even a 6" move is only a 3" charge. With your Warlord in the mix, you can block overwatch too.

 

I like the idea of a more alpha-strike list, so I am thinking my troops will just be Scout Snipers for the Battalion and most everything else will be using SFTS to get in range for a 1st turn shoot-em-up. Aggressors/VVs w/ LCs against infantry (including MEQ), Grav Centurions/VVs with TH/Xiphons against vehicles/MC. I think that's a pretty devastating list assuming we're correct that SFTS can be used multiple times.

[duz_]

Personally I've had more success with my RG's when I haven't played them as an alpha strike army.

When I keep to the shadows and chose my engagements I generally do much better :)

Not to say I'm not going to infiltrate up my VV's and then DS in Shrike + Chaplain T1 to go destroy some poor plebs. That's purely for amusement purposes only though ;) 

[Mr. Poe]

Assaulting off the deep strike is a high risk high reward tactic and is probably not something we should be centering our entire strategy or army towards. The new deep strike rules are still good for our jump infantry though. For example you can keep Shrike and your favorite VV unit in reserve if you fear your opponents alpha strike and there isn't any/enough LOS blocking terrain. When you do bring units in from deep strike they no longer scatter so you can take advantage of favorable terrain / positioning. SFTS now gives us another deployment option to take advantage of. If you have first turn it's a great alpha strike tool obviously. If you don't have first turn you can use it defensively by deploying units in more favorable positions outside of your deployment or in positions not favorable to your opponent. For example, you can use SFTS to deploy a unit outside the range or LOS of your opponents heavy weapons. This may not seem like much but those weapons will now have to move to hit you and thus suffer the -1 to their rolls (on top of the -1 from our CT hehe).

 

For the Raven Guard, there is great opulence in options. The more options we have the more versatile we can be. It's true to the RG fluff and on the gaming table it's really rewarding.  

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Personally I've had more success with my RG's when I haven't played them as an alpha strike army.

When I keep to the shadows and chose my engagements I generally do much better

 

Not to say I'm not going to infiltrate up my VV's and then DS in Shrike + Chaplain T1 to go destroy some poor plebs. That's purely for amusement purposes only though

Infiltrate Shrike and the Chaplain also... they both have the infantry key word.  Who wants to rolls 9+s when they can roll 2+s?

[duz_]

TBH if were are allowed multiple uses of that stratagem I would probably only include the Chaplain and still DS in Shrike.

 

1 thematically awesome having him plunge in from the skies ready for the attack with the other units

 

2 keeps him off the board in case something goes horribly wrong

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

TBH if were are allowed multiple uses of that stratagem I would probably only include the Chaplain and still DS in Shrike.

 

1 thematically awesome having him plunge in from the skies ready for the attack with the other units

 

2 keeps him off the board in case something goes horribly wrong

Is it only 1 use?  Because GW heavily implied that using this stratagem is limited by your CPs.  I've been told once recently on this forum it was not limited to 1 use but I have yet to see any authoritative decisions or opinions on the matter.  The rule itself does not mention any restrictions and stratagem use in the rule is only bound during the actual game.  

[SkimaskMohawk]

Its not one use. Deployment isn't a phase, it's Deployment. The only phases are Movement, Dogfight (if playing Death from the Skies), Psychic, Shooting, Charge, Fight and Morale.

 

Please don't just listen to the hearsay from dunce streamers

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Its not one use. Deployment isn't a phase, it's Deployment. The only phases are Movement, Dogfight (if playing Death from the Skies), Psychic, Shooting, Charge, Fight and Morale.

 

Please don't just listen to the hearsay from dunce streamers

 

I didnt get that from streamers.  There have been some posts here that have assumed Strike from the Shadows is 1 use only.  I've seen this assumption on other forums also and not by trolls.  The sticking point is that most stratagems are restricted in the number of times they can be used.  This one appears not to be restricted but GW did not think to make this abundantly clear in the stratagems rules.