SkimaskMohawk Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Stratagems that are used during phases are restricted. There's 6 phases (usually). Deployment isn't a phase. It boils down to people knowing they can use their command reroll once a phase, and then not reading the actual rule for strategic discipline, which makes it abundantly clear that it's only phases and not end of turn or pregame. And to be fair, I meant to quote you and the guy who made the assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Stratagems that are used during phases are restricted. There's 6 phases (usually). Deployment isn't a phase. It boils down to people knowing they can use their command reroll once a phase, and then not reading the actual rule for strategic discipline, which makes it abundantly clear that it's only phases and not end of turn or pregame. And to be fair, I meant to quote you and the guy who made the assumption. Gimme just 1 more d6 of fairness. I had assumed that strike from the shadows was only limited by the number of command points in an army since "deployment" is not a phase as defined on page 176 of the rule book where the phases are listed. I also had assumed that strike from the shadows was unlimited because GW said so in the chapter focus. However since Im a relatively new player I lack experience parsing rules and tend to defer to others on these matters. I keep seeing people claim that the stratagem is 1 use only. I'm about to make a few model puchases but am frozen by the uncertaintly regarding this rule. I'd like a nice fat vanguard vet squad with a chaplain to rip someones face off on turn 1 but if that doesnt work with the new rule I will buy scout snipers instead. Until now, no one has convinced me that I'm right or wrong. Page 215 of the rule book: "The same Stratagem cannot be used by the same player more than once during any single phase. This does not affect Stratagems that are not used during a phase, such as those used 'before the battle begins' or 'at the end of a battle round'. Checkmate. Time to buy some more Vanguard Vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extropian Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) If you are new, I'd say do not buy anything right this second working under the assumption it's as many times as you like. It probably does work that way, but if it turns out to get faq'd it'd be sad times. While the streamers at have said the "one use" thing are wrong at times, it's worth noting that they have also been playtesting it for GW and have had the book for ages, so they MIGHT be correct. Though I agree hat RAW right now it's multiple use allowed. Buy 1 unit you will DEFINITELY use with SFTS plus other bits for your army, and in a week or two all confusion should be cleared up given GWs current FAQ speed :) Edited July 26, 2017 by Extropian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcyon Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 I was riding high on the chance to do guaranteed first turn charges, but discussions of tournament rules and GW's intentions with the CTs have made me reconsider a lot tonight. It's probably just too risky to try and set up a turn 1 alpha strike when you can't be sure you'll get first turn, and especially when you might get seized on and ruined. That approach works very hard to "abuse" SftS and you don't get as much benefit from our -1 to hit debuff, which many reviewers seem to consider a busto psychic power for SW and DA. Plus, 1st turn charges frankly just aren't that fun for your opponent and aren't really a "balanced" approach to listbuilding. My last drafts are actually a Battalion + Vanguard, using SftS to put Hellblasters, Centurions and a Primaris Lieutenant on midfield objectives and dropping Shrike and a Captain in via jump pack deep strike on turn 1 for the auras. Vanguards, regular Assault marines and Scout Bikers all help support and seize objectives and I put a regular ol' Devastator unit in there too. Much more balanced I think. SanguinaryGuardsman 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Pg215 solves our problems "This does not affect Stratagems that are not used during a phase,such as those used 'before the battle begins' or 'at the end of a battle round.'" :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 So here's something interesting. SftS says that you set up units during at the start of the first Battle Round but before the player turn. This lead me to believe you deploy them before the first turn is decided and / or siezed. But the thing is that determining first turn happens right after deployment, and not during the battle round. So right now, RAW, you always stfts knowing exactly who is going first; there's no chance to be out of position except by your own deployment. That being said, I can easily see them faqing that to say before initiative is stolen Nusquam and Mr. Poe 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extropian Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Yes, RAW you do it after the Seize roll as far as i can tell. Which is....somewhat powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Its very powerful but consider that UM have Gman. Hes substantially more powerful than any other codex unit and has a metric tonne of buffs and should probably cost about 100 more points. And they know they aren't going to get RG players to invest heavily in big tank transports for primaris so they needed a way to incentivize RG playets to invest in the new line. It checks all the boxes of fluff, quality, and model purchase opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 I mean, we can always take Robbie too. Hes so broken it doesn't matter we don't get the full rerolls and since he takes up a separate detachment we can still use all our stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 I mean, we can always take Robbie too. Hes so broken it doesn't matter we don't get the full rerolls and since he takes up a separate detachment we can still use all our stuff I played against girlyman and he is a beast. I did kill him, but only after he wiped a cataphractii, vanguard vet, assault, and shrike units. then he rolled a 4+ and he came back to life :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluthusten Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) I think a Libbi with Nullzone and 10 Venguards are enough for Robert :D (+Shrike ) Edited July 26, 2017 by Bluthusten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Depends on if they saved their reroll forward his 4+ resurrect and if they bubble wrapped him to prevent the Libby from getting within 6" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluthusten Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I got my index today and I have my first game on Saturday. I gonna try out a midrange gunline (placed with sfts) -Ancient with the Relic-Banner -Primaris Captain -Primaris Lieutnant -6 Aggressors -5 Hellblaster then 3 Tactical squads in Rhinos Supportet by Shrike and some Vanguards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGatch113 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I got my index today and I have my first game on Saturday. I gonna try out a midrange gunline (placed with sfts) -Ancient with the Relic-Banner -Primaris Captain -Primaris Lieutnant -6 Aggressors -5 Hellblaster then 3 Tactical squads in Rhinos Supportet by Shrike and some Vanguards. Index or the Codex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshTheStampede Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 I got my index today and I have my first game on Saturday. I gonna try out a midrange gunline (placed with sfts) -Ancient with the Relic-Banner -Primaris Captain -Primaris Lieutnant -6 Aggressors -5 Hellblaster then 3 Tactical squads in Rhinos Supportet by Shrike and some Vanguards. You're gonna sfts all five of those? That's spendy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcyon Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Yeah, it's unfortunate how all the characters work as individual units. I think my setup will be SftS for only 1-2 units (Hellblasters, Centurion Devastators, Aggressors) and then use jump pack characters to support them. If Apothecaries and Ancients turn out to be super good, we still have the option of a single Drop Pod with Grav Devastators or something and as many characters as you want. On the other hand, they can still ride bikes as per the Index rules mentioned in the FAQ, and there is this very Raven Guard-y kit... Could support a gunline pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autek mor Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Yeah, it's unfortunate how all the characters work as individual units. I think my setup will be SftS for only 1-2 units (Hellblasters, Centurion Devastators, Aggressors) and then use jump pack characters to support them. If Apothecaries and Ancients turn out to be super good, we still have the option of a single Drop Pod with Grav Devastators or something and as many characters as you want. On the other hand, they can still ride bikes as per the Index rules mentioned in the FAQ, and there is this very Raven Guard-y kit... Could support a gunline pretty well. can't believe i never thought of that. perfect models for ravenguard company vets on bikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluthusten Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Codex* :D Yeah I'll play a battalion, so it's no problem for 5 units to sfts. Only 1 cp left, but that's okay. Maybe I don't have to sfts all of them, let's see which list I play against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Codex* Very Jealous. I need to make some friends at GW. I sold the Death Guard half of the Dark Imperium box so that will be funding my codex purchase, I'm hoping to make it to a shop Saturday to pick it up but I might be ordering it online instead. I also want to get the open war cards as those look great for random game generators. duz_ 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Just get the ebook version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) Just get the ebook version I would, but I don't have a good tablet to run it off of, and I don't want to lug a laptop to the game store on top of my cases and rulebook. I'd really like both. I wish GW would let you have all formats if you buy one. EDIT: Typo Edited July 28, 2017 by thewarriorhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluthusten Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 My first game is over, I gonna write a battlereport when my PC works. All I can say: My gunline: Primaris Ancient Primaris Lieutnant 6 Aggressors 5 Hellblasters All placed with sfts + a Captain on bike which turboboosted to join them in 1st round was amazing. I played against admech and they totally get destroyed by them. The banner (relic) was every point worth. The output is amazing and you can 100% control where you place all the units. Even if they get charged you can pile in with the captain and the Lieutant with power weapons and clean off the dirt :D 6 agressors 1 Ancient with relicbanner 1 Lieutant 1 Captain Autoinclude in all of my lists ! Captain with Bike is amazing to. 20" move for objective grab or smth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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