Chapter Focus: The Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists and Black T

[Brother Talarian]

The 6" intervention is essentially a free 6" charge... say you manage to get 6" away from an enemy with a character and unit. Unit makes the charge, and by some stroke of bad luck you don't, you can now intervene 6".

 

I mean, it's not huge, but still another tool to get us in CC with the enemy.

 

On another note, did anyone notice if there were any close combat stratagems?

Honor the chapter sounds like a game changerz Imagine a 15-20 man crusader squad within 6" of Grim and Helbrecht fighting TWICE in a combat phase. That is straight up nasty.

 

We're talking 60ish chainsword attacks AND 4 thunderhammer attacks from a Sword Brother (all rerollable and generating more attacks on sixes)in a single combat phase? Sweet freaking Emperor!

 

I'm surprised more people aren't taking about this.

Omg what?! Is his a stratagem?! How many points?

[T-Rock]

I think we're in a good spot and more importantly we are finally on even ground with the rest of the chapters, we are no longer stuck with a sub-par chapter tactic or with no extra bonus while everyone else has some like in 7th. We got the tools to get nasty, rejoice for our time is now!.

 

My favorite stratagems are the Orbital Bombardment which might not do much but any extra firepower is welcomed, maybe target artillery positions or hard to reach units. Honor the Chapter will probably be a must take in BT armies, it allows one infantry unit to fight again in the fight phase, that could be huge!. Wisdom of the Ancients is awesome, I love dreadnoughts and turning one of them into a beacon to give re-roll 1s to hit in a 6'' bubble is freaking awesome! Load up on the Plasma cannons and overcharge!.

 

Its time to shine my battle-brothers, forget the promises of the past and charge forward to the glorious future that awaits us all!

According to Redmapa, it is. If he's right, there are going to be a lot of happy Templars on this forum.

[redmapa]

Honor the Chapter, its 2CP and it allows an infantry or bike unit to fight again at the end of the fight phase. I saw it on WinterSEO codex review and I love it!.

[Brother Talarian]

Honor the Chapter, its 2CP and it allows an infantry or bike unit to fight again at the end of the fight phase. I saw it on WinterSEO codex review and I love it!.

Omg. That's glorious. Really. I was hoping that would be our unique stratagem, we still have it but not unique, but we now also have abhor the witch. Happy days.

 

Now CP points only need to be used for that + AtW... we save those on charge re-rollls

[Firepower]

Honor the chapter sounds like a game changer. Imagine a 15-20 man crusader squad within 6" of Grim and Helbrecht fighting TWICE in a combat phase. That is straight up nasty.

 

We're talking 60ish chainsword attacks AND 4 thunderhammer attacks from a Sword Brother (all rerollable and generating more attacks on sixes) in a single combat phase? Sweet freaking Emperor!

 

I'm surprised more people aren't taking about this.

 

I'd be very concerned about anything that takes that many attacks to kill. 

[T-Rock]

:lol: A lot of ork players have been resurfacing in my local meta since 8th dropped. Green tide lists require A LOT of stabbing. Edited July 22, 2017 by T-Rock

[BlackKnight1239]

Abhor the Witch is a very good stratagem, I think. Instead of taking a psyker, you pay CP for a much better version of Deny the Witch. Getting it on a 4+ is pretty bonkers, especially if your opponent has hot dice. Plus there's some interesting fluff to be talked about why these particular Space Marines can just IGNORE psychic powers. That's pretty neat. I really do think this means Templar lists should look towards a combined arms approach, but considering how strong Crusader squads are, it will be pretty easy for BT lists for have a ton of CP.

[Firepower]

"Sheer force of will" is an awfully lackluster way of saying "Indomitable faith and zeal" though. :P

[Vaughn]

Abhor the Witch is a very good stratagem, I think. Instead of taking a psyker, you pay CP for a much better version of Deny the Witch. Getting it on a 4+ is pretty bonkers, especially if your opponent has hot dice. Plus there's some interesting fluff to be talked about why these particular Space Marines can just IGNORE psychic powers. That's pretty neat. I really do think this means Templar lists should look towards a combined arms approach, but considering how strong Crusader squads are, it will be pretty easy for BT lists for have a ton of CP.

Feels a bit like Dragon Age Templar

[Firepower]

 

Abhor the Witch is a very good stratagem, I think. Instead of taking a psyker, you pay CP for a much better version of Deny the Witch. Getting it on a 4+ is pretty bonkers, especially if your opponent has hot dice. Plus there's some interesting fluff to be talked about why these particular Space Marines can just IGNORE psychic powers. That's pretty neat. I really do think this means Templar lists should look towards a combined arms approach, but considering how strong Crusader squads are, it will be pretty easy for BT lists for have a ton of CP.

Feels a bit like Dragon Age Templar

 

 

This was a thread I made a while back that looked at the possibilities.  I quite like the branching question I wound up with some way in:  http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320127-on-matters-of-faith/?p=4330080

 

Basic summary; how does faith work vs psychic powers, and eventually is faith drawing on psychic power granted by the Emperor, either forcefully or passively.  Lots of interesting implications for Templars, from denying the witch to the nature of the Emperor's Champion, but it'd be off topic to dive into that rabbit hole.  Just thought I'd share a past bit of investigation. ;)

Edited July 22, 2017 by Firepower

[Banjulhu]

Fellow Crusaders,

 

Let's review everything together shall we?

 

Chapter Tactic- Re-Roll Charges failed charges. Unknown at this point if this means we have to re-roll both dice or if we can choose to only re roll one. You can say it's obviously this blah blah there's room for interpretation in Guilliman's Codex so there's room here.

 

Stratagem- Spend 1 Command Point to dispell any psychic power cast within 24'' of a Templar on 4+ 

 

Warlord Trait (rumored)- Heroic Intervention range is now 6'' instead of 3''

 

Relic- Extend aura buffs by 3'' (can't be taken by named characters)

 

All in all I feel like we made out pretty damn good. Warlord trait in my opinion is probably not the greatest, but I'm ecstatic about re-rolling charges, Abhoring the Witch, and the Relic is actually super useful in my opinion for those game where you aren't using special characters like Helbrecht and Grimaldus. Take a Jump Pack Captain, and you can then essentially deploy re-rolls wherever you need them in a rather large bubble. That is extremely flexible, and there's no telling what kind of buffs we may get from other units like the Primaris Chaplain. If you're taking a Marshall (Chapter Master) you might as well put the relic on him too, more re-rolls is always a good thing. 

 

I'm quite excited guys. 

 

The charge re-roll I'm just not a fan of, it's just too niche and random, if it was something like add 2 to charge roll results I would be much much happier as it  would make the deep strike charges more

 

The strategem is nice in light of us not having psychic defence but we only need it because choosing BT as your chapter removes the standards space marine psychic defence. It will also start to lose value if mult-psyker lists with multiple attack powers becomes a thing. Still it's more reliable than the Sisters of Battle psychic defences so there is that.

 

The relic is nice although I can see it being better employed in an MSU Las-Plas build than anything particularly Black Templar-ish.

 

The Warlord Trait if it does transpire to be a buff to Heroic Intervention is likely going to be ignored in favour of the standard warlord traits. Hopefully it fully explains itself because I could see poor writing resulting in it being able to trigger the intervention from 6" away but not buffing the movement distance.

 

I think we are going to be bottom of the list when the great community Charpter ranking occurs but at least the spread in power does seem more closely packed than it was last edition.

[Andrés Pacheco]

The 6" intervention is essentially a free 6" charge... say you manage to get 6" away from an enemy with a character and unit. Unit makes the charge, and by some stroke of bad luck you don't, you can now intervene 6".

I mean, it's not huge, but still another tool to get us in CC with the enemy.

 

It also allows auras to better cover units that have been charged, especially with the Crusaders Helm relic. Again, not huge, but it will tip the odd game in your favour.

 

I'd be very concerned about anything that takes that many attacks to kill.

 

Not seen the actual stratagem, but maybe you could consolidate into a second target before you use it?

 

Either that or just put to rest some massive smuggins super-heavy that looked too big for its ceramite greaves.

 

There's a time for a scalpel, and a time for a hammer.

 

It's hammer time :)

Edited July 22, 2017 by Andrés Pacheco

[Lysere]

Only in death does duty end seems like a great combo with our champion. It's basically a better version of the banner allowing you to fight as if it's the fight phase.

 

Now I just need to figure out how to get enough command points to do everything I want to.

[Deadman Wade]

Honor the Chapter looks just brutal. Talking about Berzerker-like amount of attacks lol. With overall decrease in amount of dice SM melee squads can throw this is a right way to chop through the hordes of light infantry.

So far I see core of my list as a few good old las-plas squads in razorbacks (where can I get twin assault cannons?) and LRC with big crusader squad with chaplain and/or castellan. With the amount of firepower LRC have, re-rolls and and Honor the chapter we can wipe big blobs of infantry even if they are in cover.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Deadman Wade

[Banjulhu]

 

The 6" intervention is essentially a free 6" charge... say you manage to get 6" away from an enemy with a character and unit. Unit makes the charge, and by some stroke of bad luck you don't, you can now intervene 6".

I mean, it's not huge, but still another tool to get us in CC with the enemy.

It also allows auras to better cover units that have been charged, especially with the Crusaders Helm relic. Again, not huge, but it will tip the odd game in your favour.

 

It only helps better cover units that have been charged.

 

Heroic Intervention only works in your opponent's turn.

 

"After the enemy has completed all of their charge moves, any of your Characters that are within 3" of an enemy unit may perform a Heroic Intervention. Any that do so can move up to 3", so long as they end the move closer to the nearest enemy model."

[Sete]

I just need Templars special units and chars Primaris version.

Maybe GW will follow FW route, and give every chapter a unit, for example Crusaders and Sword Bros for Templars, some sneaky unit for RG, Some burny unit for Sallies etc.

I have a feeling that we will be facing Khorne at Armaggedon. (I know Firepower, I know but this is GW.) Orks, Khorne and BT. That will be the stabiest place in the galaxy.

[Andrés Pacheco]

 

 

The 6" intervention is essentially a free 6" charge... say you manage to get 6" away from an enemy with a character and unit. Unit makes the charge, and by some stroke of bad luck you don't, you can now intervene 6".

I mean, it's not huge, but still another tool to get us in CC with the enemy.

 

It also allows auras to better cover units that have been charged, especially with the Crusaders Helm relic. Again, not huge, but it will tip the odd game in your favour.

 

It only helps better cover units that have been charged.

Heroic Intervention only works in your opponent's turn.

 

"After the enemy has completed all of their charge moves, any of your Characters that are within 3" of an enemy unit may perform a Heroic Intervention. Any that do so can move up to 3", so long as they end the move closer to the nearest enemy model."

Just give it a quick read again :)

[Banjulhu]

Just give it a quick read again

 

 

I have and it wont help on the Black Templar turn if one of their characters gets within 6" of an enemy but fails the charge but another friendly unit does like Brother Talarian suggested. It will only work in a scenario when an enemy ends their own charge within 6" of the character

Edited July 22, 2017 by Banjulhu

[Aegir_Einarsson]

 

Enjoy the new codex prewiev.

 

Some thing for vanilla are OP in my opinion.

Relic. 3++ iton halo And one deny even if you arę not a psyker.... . For free?

 

Also there is mentioned that you can't give relics to named characters. So i think that only on chaplains IT is worth taking. Also there is nice overwiev of the new units. Agressors looks fine with two heavy flamers each And two power fists nice. So many things.... Look ar Yourself.

 

Also space marines WT is huge. For every spent command point on 5+it is regained, And for every 3 CP spent you gain one additional.... . Conpred to ours its huge in my opinion...

 

Any one Primaris unit is reaviers. Better pistols And comber knifes gives them 3 attacks each on the charge. Denying overwatch with grenades may be worth taking

 

Ok. I think that relic And CT gives is some flexibility.

To react when it is needed. steel. To best compare to the blue ones.

 

Btw. Nice stratagem is that you can combat squad during the Battle.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Aegir_Einarsson

[Ciler]

 

Honor the chapter sounds like a game changer. Imagine a 15-20 man crusader squad within 6" of Grim and Helbrecht fighting TWICE in a combat phase. That is straight up nasty.

 

We're talking 60ish chainsword attacks AND 4 thunderhammer attacks from a Sword Brother (all rerollable and generating more attacks on sixes) in a single combat phase? Sweet freaking Emperor!

 

I'm surprised more people aren't taking about this.

 

I'd be very concerned about anything that takes that many attacks to kill. 

 

A 10 man space marine squad, barely.

[Andrés Pacheco]

 

Just give it a quick read again :)

 

 

I have and it wont help on the Black Templar turn if one of their characters gets within 6" of an enemy but fails the charge but another friendly unit does like Brother Talarian suggested. It will only work in a scenario when an enemy ends their own charge within 6" of the character

It also allows auras to better cover units that have been charged...

 

 

It only helps better cover units that have been charged.

 

That's what I meant :)

[Deadman Wade]

I heard that there's a regular Space Marine leutenant. Is this true? Then I won't need this misbegotten piece of trash from starter set to get re-rolls to wound!

[Aegir_Einarsson]

One question.

 

We charge, kill the whole unit, comsolidate to another and And start to beeing in combat with another unit. Can we use This stratagem to attac new unit in the same fight fase?

[Ciler]

I heard that there's a regular Space Marine leutenant. Is this true? Then I won't need this misbegotten piece of trash from starter set to get re-rolls to wound!

Confirmed in this review at 44:00 min : https://youtu.be/qpvAr9DRmgQ?t=44m0s

 

It also is an HQ, so we're basically getting back the old Marshal/Castelan duality. And once again, every other chapter will be copying us

 

Imagine this : Helbrecht and a castelan with the helm relic, 9" bubble of reroll to hit, reroll 1s to wound at +1 S.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Ciler

[Andrés Pacheco]

Only in death does duty end seems like a great combo with our champion. It's basically a better version of the banner allowing you to fight as if it's the fight phase.

Now I just need to figure out how to get enough command points to do everything I want to.

3 x 5 man crusader with melta and 2 axes, marshall with shield and hammer and a chaplain with plasma pistol and fist is about 490 points.

 

2 of them leaves you ~1000 points to spend and provides 9CP

 

Not saying that will work for your list objectives, but it might not be a bad start for CP generation.