Apostle of the 30th Host Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Warhammer twitch will be shown a game (6pm??) with the new codex Chaos, with the Black Legion, against Grey Knight https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer You can also find the army list been use for the game here. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/04/warhammer-live-lists-for-4th-august/ Look at the Defiler points cost! Look at it!!!! Wow! Thats a hefty decrease in points! With equippment cost from Index, that is a hefty 67 point reduction in cost! The Forgefiend has got cheaper too. They are -16 points on the Index costs with Hades Autocannons. I wouldn't be surprised in the Autocannons were now 25 points each (-8 points each) to account for the drop rather than a reduction in points for the Forgefiend. To confirm, the Hades Autocannons have been reduced by 8 points each - I just worked out the Ectoplasma cost and that hasn't changed meaning the points reduction is Wargear, not the base model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Warhammer twitch will be shown a game (6pm??) with the new codex Chaos, with the Black Legion, against Grey Knight https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer You can also find the army list been use for the game here. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/04/warhammer-live-lists-for-4th-august/ Look at the Defiler points cost! Look at it!!!! Wow! Thats a hefty decrease in points! With equippment cost from Index, that is a hefty 67 point reduction in cost! The Forgefiend has got cheaper too. They are -16 points on the Index costs with Hades Autocannons. I wouldn't be surprised in the Autocannons were now 25 points each (-8 points each) to account for the drop rather than a reduction in points for the Forgefiend. To confirm, the Hades Autocannons have been reduced by 8 points each - I just worked out the Ectoplasma cost and that hasn't changed meaning the points reduction is Wargear, not the base model. Yeah, just noticed and updated my post :) So pleased with the defiler since I own 2 :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Well, it's possible the base model decreased in points but ectoplasma got more expensive, but that's considerably less likely and would amount to basically the same thing anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) For the sake of those who have not seent he list, I am copy pasting it here: Spearhead Detachment: 6 Command Points Spearhead Detachment HQ Abaddon the Despoiler (240) Sorcerer with force sword (102) ELITES 10x Chaos Terminators (481)– 4x combi-bolters– 3x combi-flamers– 1x comb-melta– 1x heavy flamer– 1x reaper autocannon– 4x power fist– 1x chainfist– 3x power axes– 2x power mauls HEAVY SUPPORT Forgefiend (169)– 2x Hades autocannon Forgefiend (197)– 3x ectoplasma cannon Defiler (178)– reaper autocannon– havoc launcher FAST ATTACK 3x Chaos Bikers with chainswords (99) Chaos Spawn (33) TOTAL: 1,500 Points Edited August 4, 2017 by Iron Sage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 can you strip the formatting? That's kind of hard to read on the default theme here. I mean, you can just highlight it to read it, but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 can you strip the formatting? That's kind of hard to read on the default theme here. I mean, you can just highlight it to read it, but still... Of course. Sorry about that. I was enthusiastic ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Warhammer TV is airing a game within minutes of this post: https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer I think it's too early to start pounding nails in the Black Legion coffin... the body is still warm! Let's give it a fair shake. As mentioned, I'm very happy Abaddon got the 'Calgar Treatment' I was hoping for (a price reduction as well I hope). I don't know about empowering bikers, but I do think melta will get a slight boost from the army trait. The ability to mimic the Ultramarines re-rolls Strategum for 1 CP is actually key. It applies to infantry, and you will now be more inclined to overcharge plasma on a non-aura affected squad. The larger the squad, the better. And hey... what a shock... they push Terminator enhancements in the article.. that's a first! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Warhammer TV is airing a game within minutes of this post: https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer I think it's too early to start pounding nails in the Black Legion coffin... the body is still warm! Let's give it a fair shake. As mentioned, I'm very happy Abaddon got the 'Calgar Treatment' I was hoping for (a price reduction as well I hope). I don't know about empowering bikers, but I do think melta will get a slight boost from the army trait. The ability to mimic the Ultramarines re-rolls Strategum for 1 CP is actually key. It applies to infantry, and you will now be more inclined to overcharge plasma on a non-aura affected squad. The larger the squad, the better. And hey... what a shock... they push Terminator enhancements in the article.. that's a first! As you can see above, he is both far better than ever with the fantastic command points bonus and costs 13 points less :) Prot 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamIsCollapsing Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 When i saw the news on black legion i hoped for a reworked Icon of Excess (for a more fluffy approach). Any chances that's going to happen ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Warhammer TV is airing a game within minutes of this post: https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer I think it's too early to start pounding nails in the Black Legion coffin... the body is still warm! Let's give it a fair shake. As mentioned, I'm very happy Abaddon got the 'Calgar Treatment' I was hoping for (a price reduction as well I hope). I don't know about empowering bikers, but I do think melta will get a slight boost from the army trait. The ability to mimic the Ultramarines re-rolls Strategum for 1 CP is actually key. It applies to infantry, and you will now be more inclined to overcharge plasma on a non-aura affected squad. The larger the squad, the better. And hey... what a shock... they push Terminator enhancements in the article.. that's a first! As you can see above, he is both far better than ever with the fantastic command points bonus and costs 13 points less Ah, I did not know that. So one point for every crusade. I hope his sword rules changed slightly as well. I think tweaks to units is really going to be what we all want to see.... the devil is in the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) Warhammer TV is airing a game within minutes of this post: https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer I think it's too early to start pounding nails in the Black Legion coffin... the body is still warm! Let's give it a fair shake. As mentioned, I'm very happy Abaddon got the 'Calgar Treatment' I was hoping for (a price reduction as well I hope). I don't know about empowering bikers, but I do think melta will get a slight boost from the army trait. The ability to mimic the Ultramarines re-rolls Strategum for 1 CP is actually key. It applies to infantry, and you will now be more inclined to overcharge plasma on a non-aura affected squad. The larger the squad, the better. And hey... what a shock... they push Terminator enhancements in the article.. that's a first! As you can see above, he is both far better than ever with the fantastic command points bonus and costs 13 points less Ah, I did not know that. So one point for every crusade. I hope his sword rules changed slightly as well. I think tweaks to units is really going to be what we all want to see.... the devil is in the details. Take a look at this army list I posted above. It is the one they play with now. They released the list and well, Defilers are far, far cheaper. 67 points cheaper in fact (with gear)and the Dakka fiend 16 points cheaper. Edited August 4, 2017 by Iron Sage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) Defilers for 178 points? Praise the dark gods! In 5th they were 150~ points and I loved fielding them so much. They aren't terribly good at shooting or assault now, but having them be cheap, swingy-damage inflicting beatsticks would be great. Edited August 4, 2017 by Azekai Strazhakov 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) Whoo, that defiler points reduction is nice. Wasn't I supposed to be painting one of those? Anyway, I don't mean to hate on the Black Legion rules that much. As long as their artifact is good, I'll be ok with them overall. Their stratagem is good (and in particular favors the use of basic chaos marine squads without being needlessly prescriptive of how you field them), the warlord trait is hella fluffy (and unlike the icon of slaanesh you can just pick some other ability when you aren't playing against imperials), and the changes to abaddon are great. It's just the legion trait that's awful, both thematically and mechanically, although to an extent the mechanical failure kind of nullifies the narrative one. If you try to use the trait, then it's ridiculously limiting in what units you field and how you equip them, which is the absolute opposite of what the Black Legion is supposed to be about. But even for the few builds of the few units that can use it, it's so weak that there's really no reason to bother, so you might as well take whatever you were going to take anyway, and pretend the ability doesn't even exist in the first place. Which leaves you with a legion trait that's just +1 leadership. Which is the worst one, but honestly there are other legion traits that are often just as pointless. Night Lords against any of the many armies that basically ignore morale. Iron Warriors on a table without area terrain. Word Bearers most of the time. At least those traits feel more in fitting with their legions' fluff, though. But whatever. I've already complained for pages and pages about the trait, and that's giving a really inaccurate view of my feelings overall, both about the codex and about the Black Legion in particular. I like far far more of what I've seen than I dislike. It's just that, after years of bitter chaos famine, the muscles I use to express discontent are huge and powerful, apable of lifting huge text walls full of grievances, while my positivity-expressing muscles are weak and stringy from lack lack of exercise. Edited August 4, 2017 by malisteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 +1 leadership seems fluffy for Black Legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Black MAce and AoBF confirmed, among others. Midnightmare and Berzerker88 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strazhakov Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 For now, WE are propably the strongest Chaos arme out There simple due to zerkers.. As it should be. Zerkers have lingered too long in the shadows. It's only reasonable that the chosen of the Blood God should bring on the massacre. Now if they only had new models, I'd buy at least 40 of them. Berzerker88 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 +1 leadership seems fluffy for Black Legion. Just +1 leadership seems kind of weak and minimal compared to most of the other legion traits, and especially compared to loyalist traits like the Ultrasmurfs that get +1 leadership AND another huge benefit. But meh, it's alright. +1 leadership isn't completely useless and it isn't entirely unfluffy, and if GW had tried to give Black Legion a secondary benefit to that they might have screwed it up immensely with something that was just terrible, or utterly in contradiction to the Black Legion's entire identity, so it's probably for the best that they didn't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Exciting times, anyone who can provide a points difference list when we have the details gets a cookie*! * provided by the forum software Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnboardG1 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 So the D3+3 damage power looks pretty great. Given that guard characters are only 3 toughness you have a 30% odd chance a turn to flat out blow up the morale mitigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 When i saw the news on black legion i hoped for a reworked Icon of Excess (for a more fluffy approach). Any chances that's going to happen ?Extremely unlikely considering that the article refered to the Icon of Excess when talking about Black Legion triggering the rule on 5+ as well. Makes me kind of sad but I'll have enough opportunities to punish the Skitarii, AM and SW players for that. Especially together with the EC Stratagem that gives them new attacks on kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Black MAce and AoBF confirmed, among others. Where'd you see this? Did they say it on Warhammer TV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Black MAce and AoBF confirmed, among others. Please link or at least tell us where you have it from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Yes, during the livestream, earlier in the battle, they confirmed those two artifacts, along with the Cursed Crozius, Murder Sword, and I believe the Scales of the Hydra. Others were asked about but not really discussed as being in the book for sure. Iron Sage 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Murder Sword is still there? Good. Now it just needs slightly better rules. I just want to take it because of its name but good rules would seal the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) I'd still hold out "believing" the announcers until we have the book in hand. Wouldn't be the first time mistakes were made. Not a big deal, but I know I'll be disappointed believing the AoBF is still around, only to find out it's gone. That axe and I have a history together. Edited August 4, 2017 by Juggernut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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