Marshal Rohr Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 The Angels would be unique in this except the Imperials fist geneseed is also noted for the difficulties of implantation and extreme pain of their process in Forge World books. It just makes zero sense for someone to say 'Blood Angels get better over a thousand years but Sigismund doesn't'. Either old age is a hinderance or it is not. There is no door number three. Edit: Unless of course this is some kind of argument for Blood Angels actually being vampires who get stronger from drinking blood. In which case that's also addressed in Black Legion and it's about legion idiosyncrasies, they don't actually become more powerful from drinking blood. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 You need to stop italicizing your posts. Wont read another one. Nooooooo Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 You need to stop italicizing your posts. Wont read another one. Nooooooo Yes, farewell. :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I can see Sigismund having won the duel but hey dem the breaks... win some lose some right. Knowing Abbadon waited long as possible to avoid him. Plus it is sounding like the traitors highly coveted his sword which who knows what effects that would have on him. Mostly I fel that Siggy got thrown under the bus but I guess that just is me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I can see Sigismund having won the duel but hey dem the breaks... win some lose some right. Knowing Abbadon waited long as possible to avoid him. Plus it is sounding like the traitors highly coveted his sword which who knows what effects that would have on him. Mostly I fel that Siggy got thrown under the bus but I guess that just is me. The only sword that the traitors covet in this novel is Drach'nyen, and only a handful of them are interested. Two, actually. They do take Sigismund's sword, but even though they engrave it they still send it back with the body with a large degree of respect (for traitors, that is). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I would say Black Sword is more powerful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I would say Black Sword is more powerful. Than Drach'nyen? The sword that houses that one guy who became one of the most powerful entities in the warp? The Sword of the High Marshals was a masterpiece of a weapon , but it was nothing compared to Drach'nyen which is in a whole higher league. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I play 30k and let me tell you the Black Sword is hands down more powerful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I have finished my iBooks copy of this novel. It was a very enjoyable read. It truly felt that if it wasn't for that pesky Emperor guy or his rude children the Astartes would all still be on the same side fighting for "honour", "loyalty" and " :cuss 'n'giggles". Congratulations on this part 2 ADB. I have no inclination to join in with the other pointless moaning posts of this thread. They are irrelevancies Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandlemad Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I play 30k and let me tell you the Black Sword is hands down more powerful. Let's not go down the rabbit hole of using stats to define background. It's "just" a really good power sword though, of possible pre-imperial origin. Drach'nyen is one of the most powerful daemons in existence, the embodiment of the first murder, it did a number of the emperor himself. Psykers can't get too close to it without getting migraines at best, going mad at worst. Throughout the book Abaddon is literally sick with an almost physical need for it. Khayon and the others didn't care about the sword particularly. They cared about Sigismund and the message the high lords would get when they saw "We are returned" carefully inscribed on a sword on top of the corpse of one of the imperium's greatest heroes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Yeah I can see why you want to ignore how powerful is the Black Sword right . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 The Angels would be unique in this except the Imperials fist geneseed is also noted for the difficulties of implantation and extreme pain of their process in Forge World books. It just makes zero sense for someone to say 'Blood Angels get better over a thousand years but Sigismund doesn't'. Either old age is a hinderance or it is not. There is no door number three. Edit: Unless of course this is some kind of argument for Blood Angels actually being vampires who get stronger from drinking blood. In which case that's also addressed in Black Legion and it's about legion idiosyncrasies, they don't actually become more powerful from drinking blood. Read Dante, they do. Also, Dante is 1536ish years old. I can go deeper if you want. But even if we take novels out of the question, the codex explicitly says they have a GS quirk that makes them live longer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Are you joking, Black Orange? 'Cause it ain't funny anymore. You honestly cannot compare the Black Sword with Drach'nyen. They are two completely different things. The only similarity is that both are swords. That's all. One is a mighty power sword, the other is THE daemonblade of all time. It's like fighting a lightsaber with a vibrosword; like trying to stand against Frostmourne with a normal blade. It wouldn't end well that's for sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 So if Dante drinks blood for super natural powers, then why the :cuss is he pertinent at all to Sigismund who was an amazing fighter without augmentation? Is the point literallly just 'Oh but Dante is better', because that isn't right or appropriate for this topic. That kind of e-peen measuring can go back to 'Who punches hardest' in Amicus or something Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 So if Dante drinks blood for super natural powers, then why the :cuss is he pertinent at all to Sigismund who was an amazing fighter without augmentation? Is the point literallly just 'Oh but Dante is better', because that isn't right or appropriate for this topic. That kind of e-peen measuring can go back to 'Who punches hardest' in Amicus or something Not at all what I'm saying :o I'm just saying Sigismund isn't as good as he was in his prime because he is aging and doesn't have the genetic quirk like BA, so I am in the "you can't compare them" camp :o Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Not you Ark, the general 'We'll Dante is a thousand and Abaddon would lose to him' crowd. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Ah. With what Abbadon has been through I don't think anyone short of a Primarch can beat him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 That is arguable. And we all have our opinions. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor of Calth Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I also put the whole "Blood Angels live longer" stick down to one of those in universe biases. It's not that Blood Angels live longer, it's just that some Blood Angels are really really old so they are presented/seen that way to and by the wider Imperium ie; In-universe propaganda, nothing more. It's like in the HH where everyone says the Space Marines are immortal because they have no concept of how long they actually live for. We still don't know for sure if they functionally can live forever, but age definitely affects them in some way. That was established right from the off Horus Rising. It only makes sense that Siggy has been affected in some way by his above average, for a Space Marine, lifespan and you can bet your house it's affected Dante too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 What approximately is the exact number of years between say the end of the Battle of Terra to when Abbadon and Sigismund duel ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I also put the whole "Blood Angels live longer" stick down to one of those in universe biases. It's not that Blood Angels live longer, it's just that some Blood Angels are really really old so they are presented/seen that way to and by the wider Imperium ie; In-universe propaganda, nothing more. It's like in the HH where everyone says the Space Marines are immortal because they have no concept of how long they actually live for. We still don't know for sure if they functionally can live forever, but age definitely affects them in some way. That was established right from the off Horus Rising. It only makes sense that Siggy has been affected in some way by his above average, for a Space Marine, lifespan and you can bet your house it's affected Dante too. Well I mean, considering actual evidence provided by indexes, codices, and most novels it's more than just bias propaganda. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor of Calth Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Codices aren't exactly the most reliable source of information. That's not too say they aren't canon, just that each one presents the army it represents in the best possible light. They are the primary example of in-universe bias. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Codices aren't exactly the most reliable source of information. That's not too say they aren't canon, just that each one presents the army it represents in the best possible light. They are the primary example of in-universe bias. Except that they aren't, or the Dark Angel one wouldn't talk about how Lion is in the Rock ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninja6fett Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 People aren't making the "Sigismund is slower than his prime" argument from nothing. It's directly commented on and discussed in the book. And the point I believe we're supposed to take from it is what Abbadon says to Khayon: "A slowed 1100+ Sigismund isn't pitiful. Think about the fact that all aging did is bring him down to the point where he could still probably beat the best Astartes swordsmen, rather than annihilate them." Yes Sigismund was slower, but he was still capable of going toe to toe with nearly anyone and winning. Knowing that Abbadon (the chosen of Chaos and a not insignificantly gifted fighter himself) would eventually beat him, he still almost killed him by using Abby's flaws against him. THAT'S just how good Sigismund was, even at 1100+. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 People aren't making the "Sigismund is slower than his prime" argument from nothing. It's directly commented on and discussed in the book. And the point I believe we're supposed to take from it is what Abbadon says to Khayon: "A slowed 1100+ Sigismund isn't pitiful. Think about the fact that all aging did is bring him down to the point where he could still probably beat the best Astartes swordsmen, rather than annihilate them." Yes Sigismund was slower, but he was still capable of going toe to toe with nearly anyone and winning. Knowing that Abbadon (the chosen of Chaos and a not insignificantly gifted fighter himself) would eventually beat him, he still almost killed him by using Abby's flaws against him. THAT'S just how good Sigismund was, even at 1100+. Right, but we are saying the Dante comparison is not relevant because Dante has some other benefits from drinking blood (I didn't know about the prior to the conversation). There's nothing wrong with a Sigismund being defeated. 'A king has his reign, then he dies'. There's everything wrong with rolling into a conversation and saying 'Well Dante is old and he would beat Abaddon' or whatever the hell the Dante comparison was meant to achieve. It's like knocking over a child's blocks because they are playing a different game. This song isn't about the blood Angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/43/#findComment-4852679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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