Sete Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4858865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I'll be honest. Sigismund being killed by Abaddon wasn't exactly the most interesting part of the book or Abaddons story for me. It's just one event that happens where Abaddon gets injured is all. I mean sure, he's an interesting character and an important part of the lore. But whilst Astartes are functionally immortal. They clearly aren't in the sense of being "combat ready" immortal. For that you need to be The Emperor. I would say the Primarchs but none of the loyalist ones are anywhere near 1100 years old at the moment so we have no canon example of how they fare the stormy trip through the seas of time. The book seems to show that Abaddon is an honourable character at the moment that will never be corrupted by Chaos as his father was although some of the text hints he takes the marks of Chaos eventually. Is that the case? I was always under the impression he remained uncorrupted in that sense. Also, I was wondering if Abaddons crusades are responsible for the galaxy spanning Warp rifts in some way? I've not read the GS stories so I'm not familiar with how they actually spawned in the first place. Does anyone know? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4858901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Yep Abbadon is indeed responsible for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4858903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Because nobody knows. From what we know so far, it's more about AD-B feeling like continuing the series rather than Black Library contemplating on keeping it alive. Indeed, with the recent events of 8th edition and potential changes to the fluff, AD-B may very well lose interest on Abaddon's character if the studio screws him up. I'll be a happy camper if Ezekyle goes out the way Sigismund predicted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4858917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 Dying with his duty undone was the greatest disservice done to Sigismund. His death was meaningless and achieved nothing at all. He didn't stop Abbadon, he didn't stop the Black Crusade, he didnt do anything of impact. He was there just to be killed and develop Abbadon character. His "glourius" death is an empty one. His duty was over when the Emperor was put on the Golden Throne. I haven't read the book yet, my Limited Edition has been shipped today, ebook master race and all that, but Sigismund lost when the Heresy ended. He is the Emperor's Champion. A champion without a master. Duty is over, all that remains is vengeance, especially toward that one perticular soul. The first son of the Arch-traitor, his champion. A champion who mirrors Sigismund so well, because he also lost the war, his duty also ended with the events aboard the Vengeful Spirit. And vengeance fuels him aswell. So they don the black, both in their own way. Abaddon transcends what the Heresy has done to the traitors by building his Black Legion and rekindling the flames of a meaningful war, the Long War. Sigismund is not so different. He also does what is meaningful. He knows that this one perticular soul so much like him, this First Captain of the first Legion among traitors wouldn't roll to the side and die like all the Imperium told him. He has been criticized and mocked for keeping his Chapter there for centuries, but in the end he was right. And he was the only one at the meaningful place this day, finally meeting his death against the overwhelming numbers of the Black Legion. Yet he manages a shot at this one soul among tens of thousands, the one that gave him a reason to keep living, his duty a failure for so many centuries. He has very little chance on winning. And even if he does, he knows he will die no matter what. But that doesn't really matter to him because this is personal, and that's all that's left for Sigismund. Even without the book in hand, I can safely say the cirumstances probably make for the best characterization of Sigismund we've seen yet. Our Ebook overlords can comment on this (without spoiler, or I'll kill you), but that's more of a saving grace than a disservice. Not everyone manages to get a good death. EDIT : typos all over the place ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Gonna put this into spoilers, just in case. Good points yet, it's still empty. Tarnished even further because in the book there is mention of 2 characters that could easily best Abbadon in single combat as stated by the narrator.Now you can take it as hyperbole or face value. Like you said not everyone gets a good death, and this for certain wasn't one. He died in failure, did not achieve anything lasting. It had no glory, like everyone likes to throw left and right. The words he said to Abbadon are a reflection of his state. He died a failure, alone and in shame. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Yep Abbadon is indeed responsible for it. That is definitely a huge achievement for Abaddon! I had no idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Dying with his duty undone was the greatest disservice done to Sigismund. His death was meaningless and achieved nothing at all. He didn't stop Abbadon, he didn't stop the Black Crusade, he didnt do anything of impact. He was there just to be killed and develop Abbadon character. His "glourius" death is an empty one. Exactly. To me it was discourteous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taliesin Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Please keep spoilers in spoiler brackets as agreed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Sorry ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Hardly a spoiler that one. It's MY OPINION on an event we know for months it would happen. The one with actual spoilers I had the courtesy of putting tags. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesh Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 If Sigismund died a failure, all Space Marines died as failures.I might not disagree with that notion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 He's not a complete failure. All Astartes are failures. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliomanes Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I thought that was kind of the point. Sigismund exemplifies codes of duty and honor, like we find in bushido and other analogies. The point is never the result, as you can never truly know what the ultimate results of your actions will be. Butterfly effect and the boundless intricasies of the universe, and so on. The point of following a warrior's code is simply to follow it and to live in that eternal moment - because all else is ultimately fleeting. Giving his death a "result" would perhaps cheapen or dilute that message or comparison. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Sorry but ADB on Sigismund... whatever. He is a Chaos guy and thus I don't buy into any of reasonings behind him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 What were you expecting? Sigismund to kill Abaddon? Sigismund to win everything every time and then die peacefully in his sleep at 10,000 years old? Or would you rather some no name guy shoot Sigismund in the back of the head with a bolter in the middle of a duel? What better way could it have possibly ended for Sigismund? Have him single handedly stop a Black Crusade with just a power sword? That would cheapen everything ever written about him Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Hmmm to be honest I would rather Abbadon slip on a banana peel at the crucial moment and then Sig skewers him like a pig with the Black Sword. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliomanes Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Stop rooting for a team and start rooting for good stories like this one. If you just want your own guys to win, then you just wish for the whole setting to end. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleanse And Purify Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I don't think characterizing ADB as a chaos guy is particularly accurate. Rather disingenuous, really. Particularly since he wrote the only good novel the Black Templars have ever gotten. This must be one of the more frustrating aspects of dealing with fandom: people who personally identify with their favored factions to the point where anything even remotely negative that occurs to said faction renders a particular work or author invalid. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 He has written some good stuff but it is not all brilliant either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleanse And Purify Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Opinions differ, that's fine. Saying he is a "chaos guy" like he is biased towards one faction or another is pretty lame though. It's clearly not the case, and just seems like :cuss stirring. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Fair enough... I still think he likes traitors better than loyalists in general . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 AD-B is on record as saying he's mostly taken traitors because there were more openings there. He's written Black Templars, refuted the notion that the Lion was anything but loyal in his heart, and wants to write about the Blood Angels eating chaotic faces on Terra. And anyway, it's a grimdark universe. All-conquering champions don't get to just keep winning, and sometimes the end comes fighting a valorous but doomed battle, fighting because it's all that's left. Raging against the dying of the light. It's better than a lot of heroes get. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Good to know then than Abbadon is going to be taking a hit soon enough then. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Champions on the heroes' side. Besides, Abaddon has to spend millenia dealing with the "office politics of hell" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/47/#findComment-4859612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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