BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 What comes around goes around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antaonix Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Ah, crap. Another fanboy whining started? Honestly, you guys really wanna overpowered merry sue sigismund like a draigo? Also, Do not forget who wrote the novel Helsreach. ADB is not the chaos guy. he is just good writer. Don't be act like a SW fanboys. Your favorite chapter and characters are not invincible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Vesper mostly summarised my thoughts on the matter, and I thought Sigismund's death was handled brilliantly. I disagree that his duty died as the Emperor was interred though - I'd phrase it differently: his duty was never going to end. For those who remember Sigismund in the opening HH trilogy, I believe he was the first person in the series to say that there was never going to be peace - there would always be another war. He is the eternal crusader, with a chapter molded in his image, able to carry on his legacy - and he gave his life performing his duty to the last, in the face of overwhelming odds, as the only character out of all the heroes that survived the heresy that refused to forget the danger their own fallen brothers posed to humanity. The High Lords probably thought he was a paranoid lunatic, and were content to leave him out on the galactic fringe doing nothing, yet he died vindicated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 "Honestly, you guys really wanna overpowered merry sue sigismund like a draigo?" But Abbadon who is way OP is totally okay... hello kettle here is the black pot . I think most people have no idea as to what Sigismund truly is (my opinion) . :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 It's complicated. We're looking at a guy who wins the Legion War in the Eye, and is in the process of winning the Long War. And you're unhappy he's successful. I'm afraid you'll have to find a way to live with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I can live with it but I can talk about it too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 But Abbadon who is way OP is totally okay... hello kettle here is the black pot . I think most people have no idea as to what Sigismund truly is (my opinion) . Abaddon has to have a certain amount of overpower though, after all, he is possibly the most powerful traitor champion in the universe, he has to lead the forces of Chaos into eternal war. If he was anything but overpowered, he would not be Warmaster for long with the amount of champions after his mantle. Many don't like him sure, but he is a master and beast of a commander. Its a shame the Heresy does not really show that. Sigismund was a monster, he lived until Abaddon arrives, that is quite a legacy to leave behind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I don't understand your problem, Black Orange. We know one of them lives to 40k. We know the other doesn't. We know by this point one has survived in literal hell for about 7-800 years. We know the other hasn't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 He could have just let be. This is sci-fi so the whole concept of age can be quite nebulous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleanse And Purify Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Except we know Sigismund has to die at some point since he isn't the current high marshal. Come on, he died fighting the greatest ever champion of chaos. He wounded Abaddon more than the freaking clone of Horus managed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesh Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Hmmm to be honest I would rather Abbadon slip on a banana peel at the crucial moment and then Sig skewers him like a pig with the Black Sword. Ugh. Even as a person who generally advocates that Abaddon is a completely unnecessary component of the setting that generally doesn't need to be there, that made me roll my eyes to the back of my head. I never read much about Sigismund, but the way people talk about him...as what seems to be a Mary Sue...and where they want him to go...which is to continue to be a badly written Mary Sue....doesn't make me want to start. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucerne Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Abaddon barely beat an aged Sigsimund- who still seems to have come the closest to outright killing him in the entirety of 40k canon. Whatever other complaints there are to make, Sigsimund himself definitely didn't job. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 He has written some good stuff but it is not all brilliant either. Fair enough... I still think he likes traitors better than loyalists in general . Ah, crap. Another fanboy whining started? Honestly, you guys really wanna overpowered merry sue sigismund like a draigo? Also, Do not forget who wrote the novel Helsreach. ADB is not the chaos guy. he is just good writer. Don't be act like a SW fanboys. Your favorite chapter and characters are not invincible. "Honestly, you guys really wanna overpowered merry sue sigismund like a draigo?" But Abbadon who is way OP is totally okay... hello kettle here is the black pot . I think most people have no idea as to what Sigismund truly is (my opinion) . This ends now. If you dont have something worthwhile to contribute to the conversation, please think twice before posting. Next post that doesnt discuss the actually story will get moderator attention. Jarl Kjaran Coldheart B&C Moderator Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 To Mellow... As far as I know, there are two SM in lore over 1,000 years old Sig and Dante Dante is over 1,500 years old...but he's also a BA Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuEru Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 To Mellow... As far as I know, there are two SM in lore over 1,000 years old Sig and Dante Dante is over 1,500 years old...but he's also a BA Do we know anything -detailed- of dante's younger years? How he was in his prime, compared to now? Rash and Bold and furious Angel - and by now he is a wisened, more graceful commander? Could be interesting to compare... I for one, even though I am not a huge Black Templar fan, nor the most in-depth HH Fan, always liked Sigismund and his ambition and skill. He held out so long, against all odds, to get as close as he can to getting his vengeance. Even though grey and old, he was still this Clint-Eastwood-like Badass that was respected and feared, even among his enemies. So an aged Astartes (even though one of the most remarkable ones, best of his Legion, probably) stood against the Warmaster of Chaos, himself... ...and going by the Quotes it sounds like even Abbadon would've rather liked to avoid him. And imagine what a gamble it must've been to him. I'm quite eager to read the duel scene, or rather the indirect descriptions of it, myself soon. I have the feeling, that Abbadon only won due to a minimal bit of (chaos-gifted ;) ) luck or fate. A hair thin line to the side of Sigismund's hit and Abbadon would've been dead aswell, or so... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 As I understand, Dante was more like Polux, suddenly burdened with command and growing into it despite his doubts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 To RikuEru... Seems a major factor was that Sig had lost a step...but he had not lost 10 steps. They was older and more grizzled, but he wasn't decrepit. Sounds like he was analagous to a mortal warrior in his 40s, not in his 60s Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 There was at least one other 1000+ year old Astartes. That Salamander in the crash-landed ship, mentioned in Kymes Salamander. He was so freakin' old that he was barely alive when found and he has nearly become one with his throne (correct term? or would one say that he melted with his throne?) Though we don't see him in action, one can imagine that Astartes might get handicapped at a certain age. I don't count Bjorn for reasons. Therefore, I don't see Sigismund being the looser in this scene. He beat the crap out of Abaddon. IMHO A D-B did well and I'm thankful for that. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4859973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Ah, crap. Another fanboy whining started? Honestly, you guys really wanna overpowered merry sue sigismund like a draigo? Also, Do not forget who wrote the novel Helsreach. ADB is not the chaos guy. he is just good writer. Don't be act like a SW fanboys. Your favorite chapter and characters are not invincible. Applause. Especially for the SW part. Even A D-B was ordered to write 'invincible' SW into the Emperor's Gift. On the other hand A D-B did the best possible scenario for the Sigi vs Abaddon fight. If he would have done it differently - where would have been a lot more of upset fans. Jarl Kjaran Coldheart - the moment someone says something bad about SW you always make warnings. Curious why is that so - Cause BaC admins all collect Space Wolves? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4860122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Hardly Heri, but I understand why your bias sees it that way. Space Wolves, their fans and their online perception are incredibly off topic in this thread. One of the FOUR quoted off topic posts had mentioned Space Wolves. If you have any questions on the actions of a moderator, please feel free to PM one of us or an administrator and we'll be glad to discuss it with you. My only regret here is that the thread was allowed to derail so fair. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4860184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Hmmm to be honest I would rather Abbadon slip on a banana peel at the crucial moment and then Sig skewers him like a pig with the Black Sword. Ugh. Even as a person who generally advocates that Abaddon is a completely unnecessary component of the setting that generally doesn't need to be there, that made me roll my eyes to the back of my head. I never read much about Sigismund, but the way people talk about him...as what seems to be a Mary Sue...and where they want him to go...which is to continue to be a badly written Mary Sue....doesn't make me want to start. He's not a badly written Mary Sue. People describe him as a Mary Sue online (hence the screeching at his death). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4860305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I noticed Khayon makes a remark 'hundreds of thousands on legionnaires' spilling from the eye during the first Black Crusade, but then follows up with they only had 'a fraction of a fraction' of Horus' original forces. Did Legion sizes jump up again? It seems like even with the nine traitor legions at full strength, Horus would have only had a little over a million Astartes, which while larger, doesn't seem like hundreds of thousands of Astartes would only constitute a fraction of a fraction. Khayon doesn't seem like the type to exaggerate numbers while talking to the Inquisition. Am I just focusing too much on a random throwaway comment not meant to be taken literally? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4860426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Dying with his duty undone was the greatest disservice done to Sigismund. His death was meaningless and achieved nothing at all. He didn't stop Abbadon, he didn't stop the Black Crusade, he didnt do anything of impact. He was there just to be killed and develop Abbadon character. His "glourius" death is an empty one. So warning the Imperium that the forces of Chaos are set to return from the Eye is meaningless? Even if he killed Abaddon, Delvarek gets the sword and is eventually crusading himself, so how did his death achieve nothing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4860450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Hardly Heri, but I understand why your bias sees it that way. Space Wolves, their fans and their online perception are incredibly off topic in this thread. One of the FOUR quoted off topic posts had mentioned Space Wolves. If you have any questions on the actions of a moderator, please feel free to PM one of us or an administrator and we'll be glad to discuss it with you. My only regret here is that the thread was allowed to derail so fair. On the direction of the thread I fully agree with your comment. TheRealMcCagh'I noticed Khayon makes a remark 'hundreds of thousands on legionnaires' spilling from the eye during the first Black Crusade, but then follows up with they only had 'a fraction of a fraction' of Horus'' That's one of the several issues I had with the novel. Having written logistics issues CSM suffered in the EYE, Legions wars and reduced numbers after HH - how the heck hundreds of thousands CSM even exist? That was done to cover the 'issue' created by the GW fluff of old and new GS lore? Dying with his duty undone was the greatest disservice done to Sigismund. His death was meaningless and achieved nothing at all. He didn't stop Abbadon, he didn't stop the Black Crusade, he didnt do anything of impact. He was there just to be killed and develop Abbadon character. His "glourius" death is an empty one. So warning the Imperium that the forces of Chaos are set to return from the Eye is meaningless? Even if he killed Abaddon, Delvarek gets the sword and is eventually crusading himself, so how did his death achieve nothing? Daravek. Even if Abaddon dies and Daravek started crusading - Name of the warlord means nothing and at the same time - means everything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4860476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Dying with his duty undone was the greatest disservice done to Sigismund. His death was meaningless and achieved nothing at all. He didn't stop Abbadon, he didn't stop the Black Crusade, he didnt do anything of impact. He was there just to be killed and develop Abbadon character. His "glourius" death is an empty one. So warning the Imperium that the forces of Chaos are set to return from the Eye is meaningless? Even if he killed Abaddon, Delvarek gets the sword and is eventually crusading himself, so how did his death achieve nothing?The Imperium would realize it one way or another as soon as all hell broke loose. They would not need a mechanicus rocket scientist.Not saying for him to kill Abbadon,not I did ever say that, in my previous posts. That was never my point. But I expected his death to have some lasting purpose. An actual glorious one. So far what Sigismund achieved was to be a postcard. I haven't read all of the heresy books, but I don't see where this Sigismund/Abbadon hate/love relationship bloomed. Maybe I'm missing on something. But like vesper said, not everyone gets a "good" death, like Yesugei (if I am not mistaken). His sacrifice actually meant something, and achieved something. So, for me, and this is important, ME, I expected something else out of it. If people can't understand my opinion and what i expected out of it, to call out for whining fanboyism and hyperbole, be my guests. More people to the ignore list. Long story short, not what I expected. And in no way does that diminish the quality of the book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/48/#findComment-4860523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.