8th Ed Codex on the way

[Frater Cornelius]

But Destroyers are 70ppm for the Plasma variant. Pretty steep, despite the potential re-roll :/

[Prot]

My list will be Cawl wall but with 1 onager, 1x3 dakkastelans, Knight crusader, 10 fulgurites for counterassault.

1x3 of the new cheaper breachers. S5 W3 with a fairly reliable 2+ save isn't that bad. Weapons are a bit meh, mind.

1x10 rangers with 2 arquebus and data tether will be great to take out minor aura characters and threaten the board.

Fill with vanguard or rangers.

 

Would like to do double batallion but the HQ tax is too high with TPDs and I'm not buying 3 TPEs

 

We will have to give up the idea of using CPs for rerolling dice unless absolutely critical.

1cp on t1 to give Knight canticles

1cp when Knight is about to die to use top row stats

4 CP for Wrath of mars twice

 

This is kind of where I'm leaning as well, except I don't know about the Knight. Maybe this is the best army to use the Knight, maybe not. The Knights don't last too long in my Meta. But they are good, fun options which is important to me too.

 

Where I think I differ on testing of my Cawl Wall lists.... is the Skitarii element. I think the Vanguard with data tethers can get into a good position, and not rely on an aura to have some tremendous shooting against super ugly units. 

 

EG: You see Mort heading your way, and you don't want to advance anything. There is an aura around him loaded with poop and flies as far as the eye can see. So taking large squads of spammy Vanguard serve to purposes to me: 1. Prevent Deep Strike Alpha's of all sorts. 2. Use the Mars Strat, pump as much as you can into something like Mort, or any similar threat. You may get lucky with your 'to wound' rolls and a fist full of 6's help take him down in which point you turn to your Arcebus' or whatever and finish the deal. OR you fail. The 6's don't come up, now you're in trouble. BUT at the end of the day in this worst case scenario you lose a squad of Vanguard.

 

As the game progresses and we move out of Index play into Codex play it seems like Mortal wounds are everywhere. I was surprised to see Admech does not have much access to it especially since there is no Psychic phase. (I've tested new Fulgurites to mediocre success... yes they do well when they get there, but they won't be a 'secret' for very long).

 

Deathguard is a good example of something that is going to be very hard to threaten with any real forward momentum on the table. This is where I wonder what a Stygies or Lucius player is going to do. Nids, Orks, Deathguard, Ravenguard, etc, etc... these armies want you to park your units 9.1-12 inches away. 

 

The Vanguard are the closest thing to spam. I know they aren't spam, but that's what mine will do.

 

Stygies is very cool though for every day play. Mars is very good, but I know I'm not going to want to play static, slow armies through 8th. I will gladly try Knights, gladly try not using Cawl for great stretches. The beauty of Mars without Cawl is the ability to really stretch out on table control and exercise your inner Skitarii. :)

[Mitchverr]

So before I give up and go to strip and repaint my dudes (because I want to match the forgeworld i play as. or I might make my own forgeworld colours) anyone got any decent playstyles for the Ryza dogma/stratagem combo? The stuff I can think of generally gets done better by other forgeworlds eg pack plasma, go stygies for cover saves (making the stratagem a lil bit, bleh, given you gotta give out cp to do it), go heavy on the combat stuff, 4-5 other forgeworlds do it better even though ryza has a reroll 1s to wound in combat....

 

Am I missing anything neat in there? Massed dragoons possibly could work well but again, stygies or ignore AP-1 would suit them much better in my mind.

[Tiger9gamer]

I guess if you play exclusively with PLs, that is a problem.  After people got their heads around the new pointing system, I rarely see this anymore except with new players involved.  At least they are cheaper in points. Sniper Rangers are a decent buy in my opinion, but I'm still trying to figure out Vanguard. 141 points for a unit of 10 with 3 plasma calivers and a data tether doesn't seem too terrible, and is exactly the cost of 3 Breachers with arc claw and rifle.

yea i;m seeing power level as more of a pain in the arse than anything now. it was supposed to be a more balanced and quick way to pick up games, but right now it seems there is no real reason not to have a point cheat sheet with every codex so you do not have to math it out yourself every pick up game.

 

the rage against my machines has slightly abated now thinking about playing with points, so I shouldn't be too rage filled next saturday and have some fun. I'm thinking of doing what I always did too; bring a lord commissar and 20 conscripts before anything else, and have them screen my stuff instead of my expensive infantry. I already have tech thralls and an "overseer" like character so it wouldn't be too hard, and heck now that my FW is one of the better ones I can teleport my guys  in and wreck some face.

 

so will think of a new list later, but so far I have a few cool ideas after my anger.

 

also, seems to be that we can save points on datasmiths now if we change the robot protocols with that that binary thing. one command point but we no longer waste time getting to the good stuff and can have a firebase from movement phase onwards. Combine that, the elimination volley and out guys have the potential to be even stronger with shooting.

[lancerusso]

:cuss looks like they dropped most of the cool skitarii relics, like the rad-saturation backpack... i hate this game that was my favourite relic of 7th ed

[Withershadow]

 

I think Cyraxis won't hit till middle/end of next year, they seem to be having a lot of delay issues with that book.

 

Something I am worried about though, gw has so far made every means of advanced unit placement prevent movement afterwards. I worry that stygies might get nerfed hard with a FAQ of some kind, given how good it is. I think it was mentioned that raven guard have the same or similar ability, which, if it doesn't already prevent movement, I feel probably will also be FAQed. I know Raw it makes our dedicated melee elite units stupendously better, but it seems like a leap in power that was unintentional given precedent.

 

Edit: apparently Tzeench Daemon Flamers auto corrects to teen children framers. Just thought I'd let you all know, because reading that back after made me laugh...

I think this worry is unfounded, as there are now three subfactions in three armies with these rules. The only thing I would expect is for drop pods to get cheaper so people start using them again.

 

And it seems no one really has figured out what to do with Vanguard. Rangers are the cheap basic infantry with longer-ranged guns that can fit well with either arquebuses or arc rifles as the cheap option. The advantage Vanguard have is the toughness reduction, which may be a good thing to layer with other close combat troops. They also have assault weapons so can advance and fire. The problem with the former option is that our best combat guys are Electropriests who already have S5. Reducing MEQs, the most common opponent, is worthless, although I guess it would make T3 models be wounded on 2+, but most T3 models are Guard or Tau or Eldar, and only Eldar have a few competent close combat units you may want that edge against. Infiltrators with taser goads would now wound MEQ on 2+, so maybe using some vanguard to assist Infiltrators and to a lesser extent Electropriests could be a thing. The problem with the latter option is that the radium carbines and plasma calivers are unimpressive weapons.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Withershadow

[Redtoof]

So before I give up and go to strip and repaint my dudes (because I want to match the forgeworld i play as. or I might make my own forgeworld colours) anyone got any decent playstyles for the Ryza dogma/stratagem combo? The stuff I can think of generally gets done better by other forgeworlds eg pack plasma, go stygies for cover saves (making the stratagem a lil bit, bleh, given you gotta give out cp to do it), go heavy on the combat stuff, 4-5 other forgeworlds do it better even though ryza has a reroll 1s to wound in combat....

 

Am I missing anything neat in there? Massed dragoons possibly could work well but again, stygies or ignore AP-1 would suit them much better in my mind.

I've also been wondering what to do with Ryza. I've got about 1500 points of orange looking to expand up to 2000 after getting the book, and wondering if I should go for some plasma and combat units, or just say screw it and play the good stuff. I do have robots with Fists that will probably enjoy the dogma, but not a lot else. Rust stalkers look like they would combine well with the re-roll 1s to wound in melee for more chance at mortal wounds, but they also look like they will get shot at before they get the chance...

[Heliomanes]

Full sized squads of plasma vanguard with voxes could be interesting in a Lucius detachment. Deep strike in, get +2 BS, overcharge. I think I'll try out one of them at least. I've been looking at a Mars HS detachment supported by a batallion of mostly Skitarii from Lucius. Here's my WIP list so far:

Lucius batallion:
Enginseer
Enginseer
5 rangers, 2 arquebuses, omnispex
5 rangers, 2 arquebuses, omnispex
10 vanguard, 3 plasma, data tether
4 dragoons

Mars spearhead:
Cawl
Datasmith
2 phosphor kastelans
Icarus onager
icarus onager
Neutron laser onager
Neutron laser onager
6 sicarian infiltrators - flachettes and taser goads
 

[Yoda79]

You d need more spreading in detachments to gain cp s for lucius. Either make a bigger or more smaller one? 2 detachm for lucius v few. What i believe

[yellabelly]

Heliomanes I'm looking at something very similar except I think I'm opting for Stygies. I was tempted by Lucius but I think deploying before turn 1 for deep strike denial around my Mars troops is very handy. I mostly play vs Nids though. Those aggressive bugs love some up in your face deep striking fun.

 

Actually just crunched numbers on robots. For the price of Cawl, you could take a TPD and an extra robot. Cawl with 3 or less bots will yield fewer hits than an extra bot and a TPD.

That doesn't account for any 2s on dunecrawlers and of course wrath of Mars is looking kinda special. But I looked at kastelans as they are the biggest beneficiaries of Cawls re-roll.

Edited September 17, 2017 by yellabelly

[Tiger9gamer]

soo, I think i'm going to avoid cawl for a few months, seeing as how I already am strapped for points in my list and want to to be cohesive(ish) army with canticles and as much firepower as I used to have while keeping a solid base.

 

Battalion detachment:

 

HQ 1: Magos dominus (volkite, macro stubber, Solar flare)-135pts

HQ 2: enginseer-52pts

 

Troop 1: destroyers (x3 plasma culvrines, x2 phosphor blasters, 1 flamer)-213pts

Troop 2: Breachers (x3 heavy arc rifles, x3 arc claws)-141pts

Troop 3: 10 Skitarii vanguard (x3 plasma rifles, data-teather)-141pts

Troop 4: 5 skitarii rangers (x2 arc rifles)-48pts

 

Elite 1: Electropriests -140pts

 

 

H/S 1: Onager (neutron laser onager)-138pts

H/S 2: Onager (neutron laser onager)-138pts

H/S 3: Phosphor robots- 220pts

 

 

Super heavy auxillery: Imperial knight palain (stormspear, rapidfire battle cannon, chainsword)-503

 

Patrol detachment: 

 

HQ: Lord commisar (bolt pistol power-maul)-55pts

Troop 1: conscripts: (x20 conscripts)-60pts

 

6CP

______________________________________________

knight is there to provide counter charge, and be a heavy hitter, finishing off whatever my neutron lasers fail to kill (i have legendary bad luck with str 10)

 

I got conscripts to bubble wrap and provide a meatshield with the commissar standing by to make sure none run away. I have two units of servitors, breachers to provide some heavier infantry and destroyers to give some damage output. The I plan on keeping one skitarii ranger unit in the backfield with 2 arc rifles and plan on keeping my deep strike interchangable, with either the electro priests or the plasma squad in reserve until I can bring them in.  

 

the robots and onagers will be a firebase with the robots switching to protector protocols turn 1 with the stratagem. point expenditure will be 1 before the game, 1 during the movement phase and maybe 1 to give my knight canticles, ensuring that by turn 1 I can shoot things really well with nearly everything.

[Withershadow]

5 rangers, 2 arquebuses, omnispex

5 rangers, 2 arquebuses, omnispex

These units seem solid, but also vulnerable, having only 1 real ablative wound before you start losing key models like the Alpha, the omnispex, or the guns.  You also would need to double up on any stratagems you decide to use on these units.  The Stygies infiltrator stratagem seems useful to be able to place them more laterally and further up the board, thus getting better shooting angles on enemy characters.  The defender protocol would let you hit on 2+.

 

On the other hand, taking a full 10-man unit with 3 arquebuses pushes you to want to take a data-tether for morale support rather than an omnispex for ignoring cover.  Decisions decisions.

[Prot]

I've been trying two 10 man squads of VG with loaded Plasma. I used them with Metalica with advancing and overcharging. Worked very well. I think they will be great with any FW. Edited September 18, 2017 by Prot

[Gaz1858]

For myself I think Stygies is the way to go. I will be playing an Admech/GK mix.

 

Tpd

Tpe

3 x 5 rangers

Datasmith

3 Dakkastelans

19 Fulgurites

 

This will be my Admech portion with the priests using the Ambush CP. With my allied GK theres a few options but basically being in the enemies face T1 with GK and priests while the kastellans shoot stuff.

 

Anywhere between 7 and 9 CP depending on which GK Det I take. Leaning towards Grand Master and 3 x NDK for 7CP total

[Fallenturtle]

I'm going to have to retool my mars a bit. (for example, I need to get more infiltrators cause I made mine ruststalkers cause I like attacks and need the infiltrators :( ) but in the meantime, I plan on allying mars with my blood angels that I am currently building up (dante, mephiston, etc :) )

 

I am in love with the new priests.. hell, I just assembled the 5 into fulgerites that came in the massive start collecting admech force. They will be sneaky, especially in mars, lucian, and stygie? and I'm sure the moment people realize that they are actually good, they will be targeted before they get into combat.

 

That being said, I am not a fan of the robots mortal wounds only happening on a natural 6 before mods now. Granted it was kinda broken that 1/3rd of their wounds saved became mortal wounds, but eh, I guess you take the good with the bad, especially the x2 shot protocol for that turn when you REALLY need to unload on an objective/conscript horde/morty

 

I also think that allying in some Anti psyker assassins can be a huge benefit to admech these days.. we don't use psykers and have no defense, so why not shut off their psykicks :)

[OnboardG1]

In competitive I think allying someone like Voldus, Primaris psykers or a Culexis Assassin is going to be very useful in order to deny psychic powers. Otherwise the psychic phase is going to be depressingly one-sided. 

[Silentz]

Yeah I'm trying to work out how to deal with that. I'm thinking an Imperium Patrol Detachment with Greyfax and an assassin. Just not sure what troop to take.

[Charlo]

Okay ladies and gents... Here is one for ya.

 

These are my current models for Ad Mech - which Forge World do you think will give me the most bang for my buck OTHER than Mars (which seems the obvious choice right now because Cawl-Wall^TM and Wrath of Mars etc

• Cawl (obviously can't use but hey)
• Dominus - Volkite & Stub
• 30 Vanguard - 3 of each special, one sarge with Phosphor pistol & taser, 3 data upgrades
• 3 Destoryers - magnetised loadouts
• 3 Breachers - magnetised loadouts
• 2 Datasmith
• 4 Phosphor Kastellan
• Enginseer

Would be able to use the Breachers as Destoryers and vice-versa too if need be....

 

Could also make a second Dominus from the Titan Tech Priest I have lying around.

 

Honourable Mentions:

• ADL - Quad Gun
• Plasma Oblierator (seems awful in 8th...)

Edited September 18, 2017 by Charlo

[Heliomanes]

Yeah I'm trying to work out how to deal with that. I'm thinking an Imperium Patrol Detachment with Greyfax and an assassin. Just not sure what troop to take.

Just a heads up: My other army is a psyker heavy Thousand Sons warband, and I'm honestly happy every time an opponent spends points on anti psyker measures instead of more guns or objective grabbers. They never do much, as 8th edition is much less about countering spells back and forth than earlier editions.

[Vel'Cona]

I'm moderately annoyed with the Cawl change; I realize it's background-accurate for him to be from Mars but given the ubiquitousness of the model pre-8th codex I feel that this will make many players have to shelve him simply for what are mostly arbitrary reasons.  It would have been just as easy for GW to give Cawl an Ability of some kind that lets him work with any FW, not just Mars, and there are some good background explanations for such a change.

 

But hey, it's a new codex and there's some good stuff in there.  We can certainly make a better list than before the book landed, and I'm quite happy that all of our units have meshed into a single cohesive book; it eliminates some of the Detachment tomfoolery that was required in 7th edition.  Beyond that, I'm looking forward to actually getting my models back on the table (sans Cawl), though with codex IG on the horizon I'm not sure how long that interest will last . . .  

[Magos_Adephus]

First, I'm a Stygies man, painted them like that since AdMech was released. Second, been running the numbers for a Brigade since stratagems is the name of AdMech's game now. Bare-ish bones to fill the minimum requirements is easily a 2500pt list. I feel like Vanguard as bubblewrap fill this role even better now, if at max range of course. I also feel Ballistarii will start making a comeback in Stygies lists, since they're effectively on par with Dragoons with durability, and Sniper Dragoons are crazy durable now

[Withershadow]

I just don't find jezzails that impressive, while lances at -1AP and triggering three hits on 4+ are better than ever.

 

Regarding Lucius vs Stygies, the former can deep strike anything whereas the latter can only infiltrate Infantry. Are there any non-Infantry units that would benefit from this? Powerfist Kastelans with flamers?

Edited September 18, 2017 by Withershadow

[Tiger9gamer]

I just don't find jezzails that impressive, while lances at -1AP and triggering three hits on 4+ are better than ever.

 

Regarding Lucius vs Stygies, the former can deep strike anything whereas the latter can only infiltrate Infantry. Are there any non-Infantry units that would benefit from this? Powerfist Kastelans with flamers?

 

well, a few things that come to mind is robots to hit an objective or to charge in, maybe an eradication onager to get close for the power-shot, or possibly some dragoons to appear in the backfield and charge something the turn they come in, keeping them protected for at least one round or something.

[Mitchverr]

I just don't find jezzails that impressive, while lances at -1AP and triggering three hits on 4+ are better than ever.

 

Regarding Lucius vs Stygies, the former can deep strike anything whereas the latter can only infiltrate Infantry. Are there any non-Infantry units that would benefit from this? Powerfist Kastelans with flamers?

 

Something up I was thinking about, both scout and the forward ambush deploy happen "before turn 1", which happens first? Or do you simply take it in turns doing such moves?

 

To me though, stygies is the more useful of the 2, sure, teleporting bots seems fun in theory, but it could be a pain to get them in location, while -1 to hit on your guys beyond 12 inches is great (esp for dragoons imo) and the ability to possibly get a squad of 20 staff priests a 3++ saves turn 1 is also very appealing.

 

BTW where did you read stygies as only doing infantry stuff? I just read the strat and it says "stygies unit". Effectively you "could" dump a big kastelan unit using this right? And then if turn 1 go break the protocols and give it double fire from the middle of the map lol(dominus to join them for extra fun).

Edited September 18, 2017 by Mitchverr

[Withershadow]

I just assumed it worked like the same stratagem works for Alpha Legion and Raven Guard, and couldn't refer to the review on my phone. Edited September 18, 2017 by Withershadow