New Codex Incoming!

[FallenSoldiers]

Nat: I get that, I totally do. No matter WHAT people are going to find ways to break the game. It's what people do.

 

For a new codex, I'd LOVE to see the LR come back. I hate that one of the ICONIC figures of the Guard is never even on the field anymore. Hopefully that will get some tweaks and be back better than ever!

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Probably one of the easiest ways to fix this issue is to tax the unit. Essentially bring back platoons. Guard still has vehicle squadrons, where most other armies do not. Basically I'm saying that the only way to get a squad of conscripts is to bring 2 infantry squads and a platoon commander. 

 

Infantry platoon: for every 2 infantry squads and 1 platoon commander, one conscript squad may be taken. This Conscript squad does not cost a troops slot.

 

That I think would make guard players happy, but reduce it's utility to non-guard players, by making them take a platoon commander and 2 infantry squads. 

 

WAAC players will find something, because they do not (generally) play fluffy armies, but rather will play the cheesiest combo they can. 

[NatBrannigan]

I want them (LRBT's of all flavours) to be better for sure but I never regret taking them now. If I could keep them out of combat (entirely a problem with me, not the rules...) they'd do even better. There's nothing In the index I regret taking actually. Maybe if I ever took Ogryns over Bullgryns or Armoured over Scout Sentinels? Everything else is useful and that's just lovely.

 

Except Vanquisher cannons, vanquisher cannons are not useful. That makes me sad.

Edited September 7, 2017 by NatBrannigan

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I'm actually very happy with some of the mechanics that guard has to negate our extreme disadvantage in CC. I'm also really happy with some of the things that buffed the Leman Russ, like a greater movement speed. Sure it kept up with foot slogging infantry in past editions, but it never shined in an armored list because it was too slow. 

 

My Leman Russes still find a place in my lists, I just never get to play because I'm so busy...

[FallenSoldiers]

I took LRs to a few games in 8th. They wound up in CC so quickly, even moving them around. After that they were essentially useless. That's why I love my Super Heavies... CCing them doesn't make the unit useless.

[Are Verlo]

I get your point. And can relate to it.

Gaming is "a gentlemans agreement". I enjoy both tournaments and themed games with my local mates/meta.

As long as both players are on the same wavelenght it is all good.

One of my locals is a fantastic painter and a "Soft" gamer.

When we play we expect the same things ; nice terrain, sometimes a narrative and armies supported by the story/fluff.

Other times I practice for a tournament and then I expect my opponent to actually bring a gun to the gunfight.

[FallenSoldiers]

I get your point. And can relate to it.

Gaming is "a gentlemans agreement". I enjoy both tournaments and themed games with my local mates/meta.

As long as both players are on the same wavelenght it is all good.

One of my locals is a fantastic painter and a "Soft" gamer.

When we play we expect the same things ; nice terrain, sometimes a narrative and armies supported by the story/fluff.

Other times I practice for a tournament and then I expect my opponent to actually bring a gun to the gunfight.

If only EVERYONE was like this. I tip my cap to you!

[WarriorFish]

We'll need to wait and see, it wouldn't be the first time a few spoiled something for the many. GW have done well and are much improved lately but there's still a way to go (look to the fate of poor Drop Pods as an example) so it could go either way.

 

I know we heard of the codex releases being non-model affairs (Primaris/DG aside), but perhaps there's still a slither of hope for some plastic for armies with older lines such as Guard. As I said before the new approaches by GW could easily let them drop new models (and units) as they go which would avoid the feast and famine of yesteryear. Whether this happens is another question though, currently all we know and can expect is more Primaris it seems :P

[Die4Emprah]

FTR People never liked fighting that many conscripts. In 7th, I used 150 of them, commissars were just as hard to target if you had good LOS blockers/stayed in CC.... 

 

I think there's a big "hullabaloo" about a successful IG build. It's raising a stink because it came from left field. There was a time when some of the Xenos powerhouses of 6-7 were nothing but speedbumps, but got nasty fast. I don't recall too much codex dialing back, just a few seasons of winning Xenos players. 

 

What I see happening is:
1: People bring enough anti-infantry to kill more of your guys. Rarely will they kill all of them, but they should be able to take half, and all your mobile units. This will force you to hope that you get lucky on the objectives. 

 

2: More stuff coming out that will make conscript spam seem like vanilla and orange sorbet. Unless ours is the last codex released, chances are the ones after it will blast it out of the water. We might have 3-6 months of "top dog" codex, but unless they release a whole new figure line to sell us, they'll  likely boost some near forgotten codex to increase "new faction model sales". 

 

 

Dig your trenches, lay low, wait for the codex creep, fix bayonets. 

[Guardsman Bob]

Boy howdy, if you want to take a look at how prolific conscripts have become in this post-index, pre-codex, Imperial Soup world, take a look through these lists. It's a breakdown of the top couple dozen NOVA 2017 lists. It's amazing how similar the Imperial lists are, and how many are taking 60-120 conscripts (all of them?).

https://mismatchedplay.com/2017/08/31/nova-invitational-lists/

 

snip

 

Honestly, I'm not sure if the new Guard 'dex will be a response to the newly burgeoning meta. The thing was probably done, or close to done, by the time 8th came out. I anticipate they will nerf and buff some units that we're not even thinking about, that they anticipated would need changes before the meta played out. We shall see!

GW left regular Infantry Squads broken and trash because of core game mechanics for over twenty years. Historically they generally nerf old saturated models and encourage new model sales. It’s no accident the single most homogeneous army in those listings was the Deathguard player.

 

Didn’t it occur to you that the Primus stuff could have just been a regular marines revamp?

 

Post early 5th edition GW has had a certain amount of LR hate because of how good ordinance was.

 

Personally I like detachments more than formations. It at least allows for some creativity rather than pushing models sales and acting as a red flag to spot WAC players. Maybe GW needs to be more stingy on the non Patrol/Brigade/Battalion add on options. I don’t know, it is still early. What I do know is they left the auto-include character crap in this game and if anything will break the system that will be he number one culprit.

[Guardsman Bob]

2: More stuff coming out that will make conscript spam seem like vanilla and orange sorbet. Unless ours is the last codex released, chances are the ones after it will blast it out of the water. We might have 3-6 months of "top dog" codex, but unless they release a whole new figure line to sell us, they'll  likely boost some near forgotten codex to increase "new faction model sales". 

 

 

Dig your trenches, lay low, wait for the codex creep, fix bayonets.

 

Beat me to it. Well played good Sir.

[Withershadow]

2: More stuff coming out that will make conscript spam seem like vanilla and orange sorbet. Unless ours is the last codex released, chances are the ones after it will blast it out of the water. We might have 3-6 months of "top dog" codex, but unless they release a whole new figure line to sell us, they'll  likely boost some near forgotten codex to increase "new faction model sales".

 

Dig your trenches, lay low, wait for the codex creep, fix bayonets.

Unfortunately, while our codex is towards the end of this year's mass release, it is unlikely to feature a full-scale model release. Therefore our codex is likely just going to be a reprinting of the Index with a few points and option adjustments.  The power creep will be limited to new factions with big splash releases (see some of the bonker stuff Death Guard are getting, and what we've seen is only the tip of the iceberg).

[Die4Emprah]

 

2: More stuff coming out that will make conscript spam seem like vanilla and orange sorbet. Unless ours is the last codex released, chances are the ones after it will blast it out of the water. We might have 3-6 months of "top dog" codex, but unless they release a whole new figure line to sell us, they'll  likely boost some near forgotten codex to increase "new faction model sales".

 

Dig your trenches, lay low, wait for the codex creep, fix bayonets.

Unfortunately, while our codex is towards the end of this year's mass release, it is unlikely to feature a full-scale model release. Therefore our codex is likely just going to be a reprinting of the Index with a few points and option adjustments.  The power creep will be limited to new factions with big splash releases (see some of the bonker stuff Death Guard are getting, and what we've seen is only the tip of the iceberg).

 

Yeah, I'm kind of more concerned about the DKoK and other FW units. Hopefully they'll keep making those overpriced figures to justify a little bit of thought from the Developers. 

[Silas7]

I wonder if the AM codex will feature background on the Scions of equivalent depth as the Scions codex. That may just be enough to get me to pick it up.

[duz_]

If Leman Russ tanks become a bit more relevant either though improved firepower or reduced points and there are some kind of Lasgun improving regimental tactics for my Praetorians (I'm obviously not expecting Praetorian specific tactics) I'll be happy.

 

That's ok nat I let you borrow my Mordian ones! ;) :lol:

[Are Verlo]

My daydream for Steel Legion vehicles is something along this line: chimeras with infantry [steel legion] embarked can fall back and still shoot and do not suffer -1 to hit with heavy weapons while moving.

Or fire as normal while within 1" of enemy models

 

Anything to make it worthwhile to take chimeras with other weapons than HF and transport infantry squads.

[duz_]

I think a better Steel Legion doctrine would be something like
Infantry can disembark from a transport at any time in the movement phase even if the transport has moved

 

Then for 1 CP

In the shooting phase after shooting a Steel Legion infantry unit may re-embark upon a vehicle provided it meets the embarking rules

Those would be really neat, unique and fluffy to have :D

[Are Verlo]

Anything that is an incentive to move chimeras with embarked infantry.

Right now the only viable chimeras are those with 2xHF.

Those are good but I would love to actually get something for fighting vehicles with HB & ML

[Are Verlo]

I like the disenbark idea, it will buff the infantry squad.

Guess I would stick to HFs on the transport still.

[gunnyogrady]

Some special rules or doctrines for Light Infantry, Reconnaissance, or Tanith-type regiments would be really cool, too. My fanboy wishlisting would include paying some points and giving up certain vehicle, heavy support, or superheavy units in a detachment in exchange for something cool like:

1) giving certain units Scout-Infiltrate, OR

2) giving certain units a cover bonus of +2 instead of +1, OR

3) certain units decrease armor save while increasing movement speed

 

Those are totally unreasonable, but a boy can dream!

[Plasmablasts]

I think C:SM has seven Chapter Tactics and C:CSM has eight Legion Traits, so we could see 7-8 Regimental Doctrines. Perhaps:

 

Cadia

Catachan

Armageddon

Mordia

Tallarn

Tanith

Valhalla

Vostroya

 

Not sure if Tanith will be in, but it's the one I want (all my Guardsmen have greenstuff camo cloaks!) and would tie in with the forthcoming Warmaster release.

 

Perhaps camo-cloaks: -1 to hit at 12" or more?

 

I'm actually interested to see what will make it into the Codex, given how the Index was organised. Will all the characters who are currently listed among other factions in the Index be included or will we need to refer to e.g. the Index or Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus for the Tech-Priest Enginseer? There was a worry that Stormtroopers would no longer be in the 7th edition Codex when Codex: Militarum Tempestus was released, but it didn't come to pass.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Guardsmen with Raven Guard tactics would be hilarious, but possibly a bit too good. All those bodies with -1 to Hit...

[Henimann]

I would love to see that come back, but I agree it would be too powerful.  Perhaps +1   to armor saves when in cover? 

 

EDIT: Wait, that might be too broken...Rerolls for failed armor saves when in cover?  I'm just spitballing here.  

Edited September 9, 2017 by Henimann

[Sete]

Hope that Scions Sargent's can take a hot shot lasgun.

[Guardsman Bob]

I would love to see that come back, but I agree it would be too powerful. Perhaps +1 to armor saves when in cover?

 

EDIT: Wait, that might be too broken...Rerolls for failed armor saves when in cover? I'm just spitballing here.

 

+1 to cover saves is exactly how camo cloaks used to work. I ran Veteran Catachan Squads with that upgrade to simulate their deathworld skills. Edited September 9, 2017 by Guardsman Bob