Skerr Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Great stuff guys thanks for sharing! I don't have any deamons yet though about to make the investment. I have been good on my rule of no new kits until the last kit I bought is done. I plan on painting my HQs next and then my Tzangoors. After that I am looking at other options for expansion (deamons, deamon engines, spawn, vortex beast, FW helforged...) This will give me time to absorb the dex, get everyone's thoughts and make as informed a decision as I can. And not add to the stack of boxes in my closet not unboxed... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yergerjo Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Folks keep mentioning summoning....I still do not see it as a good mechanic or good for TS....more of a hindering thing for us to not have units on the board....plus we are better off with a demons detachment to get the CP and strategems... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 It may come down to play style. I need to read up on summoning and how it works though I planned on 150-200 points reserved for summoning "on the spot" based on circumstance and necessity (maybe some spawning). Examples have been mentioned to their effecgtveness and there is a risk in not using these points at all or it failing so your points are valid and many will think those points are better used on the table turn 1. For me it seems to offer some cool flexibility though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 The only thing about summoning I like is that it enables you to get reserves past turn 3 on the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Folks keep mentioning summoning....I still do not see it as a good mechanic or good for TS....more of a hindering thing for us to not have units on the board....plus we are better off with a demons detachment to get the CP and strategems... That is entirely up to your playstyle. For me, it is invaluable, as I like having a lot of different options available as well as make sure that everything in my army can fill multiple roles if necessary and i like to involve the mindgames and less straight forward units that can subvert my opponents expectations. Plus lately i have been more and more tending towards a decentralised army, where there are no centrepiece units (sorry Magnus) and even more so only giving the opponent a certain kind of unit he can shoot at, while the rest of the force is either hidden or in reserve. Summoning helps with pretty much all of these... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I personally can see it both ways, if your list needs more CP then taking a Daemons detachment and giving you access to a large number of buffers (both auras, strategems depending on FAQ, units, and of course spells) has its own reason for importance. However Summoning gives you unparalleled adjustment mid-game which in of itself is very powerful, if you find your list has a major discrepancy in power or stability then tossing out a daemon that matches that issue (Exalted = AT, flamers = Hordes, Objective capping = Horrors, anti termie and light vehicle = Screamers) has some most definite uses. Its up to meta and personal playstyle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Oh and another thing about summoning is that you don't deploy anything in reserves or elsewhere so you reduce your amount of drops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 List for today's event against custodes HQ Magnus the Red– Warlord – Lord of Forbidden Lore– Warptime, Death Hex, Weaver of Fates– Infernal Gateway Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with Wings– Dark Matter Crystal– Gaze of Fate– Glamour of Tzeentch– Hellforged Sword Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch– Prescience– Infernal Gaze– Warptime– Inferno bolt pistol Elites Tzaangor Shaman– Force Stave– Doombolt 5x Scarab Occult Terminators– Force stave– Temporal manipulation– 4 inferno combi bolters– 4 power swords– Hellfyre missile rack– Soulreaper cannon Troops 5x Rubric Marines– Force Stave– Inferno Bolt Pistol– Glamour of Tzeentch– 4x Inferno Boltguns 30x Tzaangor– Brayhorn 10x Chaos Cultists Fast Attack 9x Tzaangor Enlightened– 9x fatecaster greatbows Heavy Support Chaos Predator– Combi-melta– Twin lascannon– 2x lascannon Mutalith Vortex Beast 6 command points Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I personally can see it both ways, if your list needs more CP then taking a Daemons detachment and giving you access to a large number of buffers (both auras, strategems depending on FAQ, units, and of course spells) has its own reason for importance. However Summoning gives you unparalleled adjustment mid-game which in of itself is very powerful, if you find your list has a major discrepancy in power or stability then tossing out a daemon that matches that issue (Exalted = AT, flamers = Hordes, Objective capping = Horrors, anti termie and light vehicle = Screamers) has some most definite uses. Its up to meta and personal playstyle. I will probably take both, a small detachment of a herald, big unit of horrors and couple of smallbrimstone horror squads (around 400 pts total) and then about 170-250 pts of reinforcements. Also a problem i have for CPs is that local events and tournaments don't allow duplicate detachments, so multiple battalions is usually not an option sadly.., And a brigade might be too restrictive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammel Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Considering the Sons list features three top-tier HQs and two Heavy Support choices, those Custodes seem awful expensive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Oh wow, there is a lot of stuff that i really like here! Namely that aspiring sorcerers can take powers other than smite! So there are no skyfires, but instead the enlightened can take the bows, interesting... I assume lord of forbidden lore allows an extra psychic power, that's why magnus has 4. Shame there are no exalted sorcerers, to see what changed for them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Some very interesting tidbits revealed. Doombolt? DH Discipline still looks like it is in. Gosh I hope our sorcerers get access to Doombolt and that it is not a beastman discipline. Glamour of Tzeentch sounds sexy... Maybe a unit effected takes no action? I cant find my dex is Infernal Gateway new? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Some very interesting tidbits revealed. Doombolt? DH Discipline still looks like it is in. Gosh I hope our sorcerers get access to Doombolt and that it is not a beastman discipline. Glamour of Tzeentch sounds sexy... Maybe a unit effected takes no action? I cant find my dex is Infernal Gateway new? tzeentch daemons have infernal gateway iirc (it's same as the grey knights vortex of DOOM power) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstSonofHorus Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Bah giving Aspiring Sorcerors psychic powers is just giving me more stuff to forget!* Hopefully they have a lesser and greater lore - one for aspirants and beasties and the other for the daddy sorcerors. *(It is a great change) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Some very interesting tidbits revealed. Doombolt? DH Discipline still looks like it is in. Gosh I hope our sorcerers get access to Doombolt and that it is not a beastman discipline. Glamour of Tzeentch sounds sexy... Maybe a unit effected takes no action? I cant find my dex is Infernal Gateway new? WC 8. If manifested, identify the nearest visible enemy model within 12" of the psyker. Enemy AND friendly units within 3" of the targeted unit take d3 mortal wounds or d6 instead if you manifest this with a 12+. Ideal for punishing enemies that like to huddle close to characters with auras. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nym Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Infernal Gateway is a Tzeentch daemon power. It's quite bad right now unfortunately... being WC8 and short range (12"). It deals MW to closest model and then to units in a 3" radius of this model. I'm so happy that we get to keep Dark Hereticus though. That's awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Bah giving Aspiring Sorcerors psychic powers is just giving me more stuff to forget!* Hopefully they have a lesser and greater lore - one for aspirants and beasties and the other for the daddy sorcerors. *(It is a great change) At least we can now specialise them while list building and then play them the same every game to get used to it. Unlike in 7th, when i had to roll 30 psychic powers and somehow remember them all? (I had special cards printed for each psyker... Clunky as f***, I love 8th :D ) Infernal Gateway is a Tzeentch daemon power. It's quite bad right now unfortunately... being WC8 and short range (12"). It deals MW to closest model and then to units in a 3" radius of this model. I'm so happy that we get to keep Dark Hereticus though. That's awesome. It can be good on a lord of change with +1 to cast for the first power warlord trait. It also scares your opponent A LOT, so it can be used effectively without ever manifesting it by making your opponent spread out more, which helps with winning positioning :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nym Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 On a side note, I really hope that Tzaangor shamans are cheap enough to fill our Elite slots for a Brigade Detachment. I've wanted to run a Thousand Sons brigade for sooooo long... ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 If "Glamour Of Tzeentch" is a Psychic Power then that means our Deamon Prince will be able to cast 2 powers, since this one has Glamour of Tzeentch and Gaze of Fate. So it seems we have access to THREE power tables: Dark Hereticus Tzeentch Daemon Discipline Thousand Sons Discipline (since the Shaman has Doombolt which is neither in DH nor in the Tzeentch Discipline) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skallagoose Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 just hinted at: Tsons can dish out a lot of MW. Whether they just meant Smite or what is a little unclear, but it was mentioned Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhhdan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 If "Glamour Of Tzeentch" is a Psychic Power then that means our Deamon Prince will be able to cast 2 powers, since this one has Glamour of Tzeentch and Gaze of Fate. So it seems we have access to THREE power tables: Dark Hereticus Tzeentch Daemon Discipline Thousand Sons Discipline (since the Shaman has Doombolt which is neither in DH nor in the Tzeentch Discipline) the thousand sons specific discipline seems to contain glamour of tzeentch, doombolt, temporal manipulation and glamour of tzeentch. Gaze of fate and infernal gateway could be the last two powers in this table, but i would hope they aren't, and our princes and magnus can just access daemon of tzeentch psychic table too, that would be glorious! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Weaver of Fates is probably in the Thousand Sons discipline and not just on the side if you have a Mark of Tzeentch sorcerer because.. well.. it all has Tz. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Speculation: Our DP will get the Ephemeral Form (+1 to invul) and can cast 2 powers. Seems reasonable since the Death Guard DP also got Disgustingly Resilient. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arachnofiend Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 It seems like Magnus and the Tzeentch Daemon Prince have the ability to grab an extra power from the Tzeentch table, which is awesome (and makes sense that it's exclusive to them since our other psykers don't normally benefit from Boon of Change and such without a disk). It's crazy how much just reading this list has me excited for the codex now, it seems like GW had some great ideas for us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I wish they also had an exalted sorcerer on board, but I guess you can’t get everything!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339720-with-an-eye-to-the-past-i-look-try-to-divine-the-future/page/29/#findComment-4986732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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