Questions from a Newbie

[Guardsman Bob]

Thanks for the quick and detailed  answers guys :)

 

Snip

 

1.What is the difference between the Steel Legion and normal Cadian Soldiers? I like the gas and face masks the Steel Legion wears but their model variety seems more limited.

Games Worshop likes to run events every couple years. When this happens they occasionally drop a new line of IG metals. The Steel Legion line was released to commorate the next War for Armageddon Book (second or third war at that point). I still miss the Armored Fist squad rule from back then.

 

The original 2nd edition armies were the Cadians, Catchans, Mordians, Vahallans, & Tellerans. The oldest offshoot line that comes to mind are the Pretorians who were mostly (only?) covered in white dwarf issues.

 

My apologies for spelling errors on army names.

[Marius Septimus]

Pretty neat looking guys you have there Ranulf. I think I am going for the basic Cadian schema.

 

With heavy weapons, Id consider not gluing them until youve decided how you want to proceed. Luckily, you can just push them them together without using glue and itll hold reasonably well (at least for a couple of games). That goes for lascannons, HB and autocannons anyway, missile launchers and mortars dont need the tripod (so you can actually get up to 3 heavy weapons per team, if youve got some extra soldiers to man the guns)

Thanks for the tip, I think I will do it like that first, just to be sure.

 

How would you paint the guardsmen chest? When I did the Blood Angels, I glued their guns and hands before painting their chests, which made it hard to paint their chest parts.

Should I glue the guardsmen guns and hands after painting their chests? Seems like a better idea to me.

[Halfpint100]

Leave the gun arm off and get the pose via dry fit on the right arm, while gluing the left. gives you a nice open pose to paint

[Dr_Ruminahui]

From my experience, it doesn't really matter - the arms are a fair ways away from their bodies, and none of the real details (such as the chest aquilla) are blocked by the arms.  Myself, I painted all of my models after they were assembled and never had any problem painting any details.

[Marius Septimus]

From my experience, it doesn't really matter - the arms are a fair ways away from their bodies, and none of the real details (such as the chest aquilla) are blocked by the arms.  Myself, I painted all of my models after they were assembled and never had any problem painting any details.

Thanks! Then I will assemble them first and paint them after...its easier this way anyway :D

[Lord Marshal]

 

From my experience, it doesn't really matter - the arms are a fair ways away from their bodies, and none of the real details (such as the chest aquilla) are blocked by the arms.  Myself, I painted all of my models after they were assembled and never had any problem painting any details.

Thanks! Then I will assemble them first and paint them after...its easier this way anyway

 

 

One idea you could try is... assembling most of 'em, but leaving a few with their arms off. Practice doing both, see if you prefer the convenience or not.

[duz_]

Welcome to the Barracks Marius!

 

It seems you have met most of the riff raff around here! Seems they've been pointing you in the right direction too! I guess those officer classes have been paying off. ;)

 

Looking forward to see your army grow. Feel free to start up a WiP thread with your hobby exploits. We also are happy to offer feedback on colour schemes and tactica too! :D

 

BTW latrine duty starts 23:59hrs Friday. Dont forget your toothbrush. :tu:

Edited September 26, 2017 by duz_

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

BTW latrine duty starts 23:59hrs Friday. Dont forget your toothbrush.

Yay! I get a Friend! Finally...

 

I don't pain the Aquilas on my men. My Regiment takes the approach of if it shines it dies. So very few of my units have shiny.

[Marius Septimus]

Thanks great commisar duz_ , of course I will be on point for the latrine duty :D

 

Really thinking about setting your mentioned WiP thread up when I bought all the stuff, opinions from professionals are never redundant ^^

 

@Ulrik

 

Not just a friend. Your loyal comrade and sidekick :D

[Marius Septimus]

So,

After all your detailed and good answers to my questions about fortification, I decided that two Aegis Lines and one Imperial Bastion would be a nice start when I've finished building up my army (ergo in maybe 2 months or so).

 

1. Is it possible to deploy an Imperial Bastion with my troops?

 

2. Is it possible to mount another gun than a Lascannon on top of it?

 

3. I've seen in some Battle Report that the enemy can deepstrike behind your lines, how do you counter attacks like that on your backline artillery?

 

The Emperor protects

[Harrowmaster]

1. Fortifications can be taken as part of your army no problem, they just use a separate detachment, the rules are currently in Imperium Index 2.

 

2. If I remember correctly a quad gun can be mounted on a bastion,

 

3. Bubblewrap with infantry or conscripts.

[Marius Septimus]

Thanks, I think thats all I want to know for now, but cant ensure that I wont pull up with a couple of questions later this day or tomorrow :P

[NatBrannigan]

You'll just get lots of different answers anyway depending on who responds first! Everyone had different ideas on how Guard should be played / how they should look / what the best units are. We're in a good spot at the moment because everything is worth taking to some extent, and it looks like the slightly more lacklustre units are getting a boost with the new Codex.

 

Just so you know the proper way for your Guard involves nice neat uniforms and nice neat ranks of Infantry, just as the Emperor intended. For is it not well know that the Emperor always wore a Pith Helmet of brightest gold on his holidays?

[PliskinAJ]

The guard is super flexible its one of the reasons I have played guard 99 out of 100 games I have played through out the years. 

 

 

Those are 3 rather different guard armies. 

1st was Armor heavy mech infantry.

2nd was only chimera chasis vehicles (got me 2 more chimeras +20 guardsmen)

3rd was foot guard 200+ guardsmen. 

 

There are also

Vet guard

Airborne

Psyker heavy

Scions

Armored company

...

Edited September 27, 2017 by PliskinAJ

[Halfpint100]

So,

After all your detailed and good answers to my questions about fortification, I decided that two Aegis Lines and one Imperial Bastion would be a nice start when I've finished building up my army (ergo in maybe 2 months or so).

 

1. Is it possible to deploy an Imperial Bastion with my troops?

 

2. Is it possible to mount another gun than a Lascannon on top of it?

 

3. I've seen in some Battle Report that the enemy can deepstrike behind your lines, how do you counter attacks like that on your backline artillery?

 

The Emperor protects

 

 

1. Yes

 

2. Quad autocannon is the only other option

 

3. You can only deepstrike more than 9" away from your opponents units. So.... If you do not have a gap of more than 9" in your deployment zone, your opponent cannot deepstrike behind you. 

[Marius Septimus]

 

 

So,

After all your detailed and good answers to my questions about fortification, I decided that two Aegis Lines and one Imperial Bastion would be a nice start when I've finished building up my army (ergo in maybe 2 months or so).

 

1. Is it possible to deploy an Imperial Bastion with my troops?

 

2. Is it possible to mount another gun than a Lascannon on top of it?

 

3. I've seen in some Battle Report that the enemy can deepstrike behind your lines, how do you counter attacks like that on your backline artillery?

 

The Emperor protects

 

1. Yes

 

2. Quad autocannon is the only other option

 

3. You can only deepstrike more than 9" away from your opponents units. So.... If you do not have a gap of more than 9" in your deployment zone, your opponent cannot deepstrike behind you.

 

Ah thanks,

Thats a relief. I thought some SPESS MEHREENS could deep Strike behind my lines and take out my artillery...well then thats one thing less to worry about.

 

The Emperor protects

[noigrim]

In my experience of 8th power gamer, that guy,  guard player the best option for a russ is the punisher variant with pask in it, now pumping 40 shots at 2+ he's even better, so I would use the tank in start collecting into a punisher pask HQ. Then use the comissar as a normal (elites) one (no extra abilities benefits from the HQ option) and get some officers as said. The best option for sponsons-hull weapons are the heavy flamers, with some meltas-laser in pask (Pask of all trades, master of none ?). The wyvern was said to be good antihordes but i don't think it can top 40 2+ shots.

 

Normal command squads are crap, you'll be better off with scions command squads: they deploy within 9'' of any enemy unit in your turn and four of them can have meltas/plasmas to kill-maul units in the turn they appear. 

Both the platton and company commander are good if you have the points/power pick the company: he gives two orders per turn so you can boost two units for less price. 

 

The infantry nowadays comes in blobs of 30+ conscripts, with orders and a comissar behind they can shoot loads of dice, pass morale tests and are super cheap, 40 of them for the power price of one marine captain, however they may get a nerf so wait until the codex shows up. If as i suspect the conscrips will lose their orders then you can always give a blob of 50 a comissar and bayonet people around.

 

So the punishers and the guards should provide your antihordes, what about antitank?

 

Personally I prefer marine units for that, such as the typhon siege tank (S10, damage3 AP -5) and the always reliable salamander devastator squad with lasers (4 S9, D6 damage, ap-3 shots) since salamanders always reroll one dice you're guaranteed to hit and wound with all four, causing an average of 12 damage, oneshooting most enemy vehicles. Devastators are also cheap at 165pts/8power each.

 

However, however if you want to go full guard both catachan manticore and the russ are solid options, however,however, however guard artillery has the problem of having only D3 damage compared with the D6 of laser devastators. Another option would be laser russ anihilators with 3 laser shots each. In the marine codex you can mix chapter so the guard will be the same, mixing pask with armageddon antitank. You may lose objective secured tough.

 

About defences some quick review: aegis for guard is useless since they're wearing cardboard armour and the "cover benefit" isn't that helpful, plus you want to use your infantry ofensively, grabbing objectives and getting into 12" range with lasrifles. Denfence lines give you a Ld benefit, that's pointless because you already took a comissar. Skyshield gives you 5++ (invuln.), park your antitank russes there for ultimate lol. Plasma obliterator, a nice bunker for your infantry with added antitank, ideal for parking two squads of devastators. Bunker: idem, take if you want only one defence if two the plasma gives you extra firepower for the price of two bunkers. Firestorm: unbelievably expensive in power points, don't take. Vengeance batteries: do the same than a russ, for same power but can't move, meh. Aquila strongpoint, macrocannon-crappy gun take the plasma instead, vortex-actually nice too expensive in power for me but if you wand an uber fortress feel free. Void shield, idel for distracting firepower from yout valuable tanks. Fortress of redemption: take vortex aquila instead. I would never take fortifications since ruins/cover are good enough and you will be spending lots of points in a unit that doesn't have that much firepower and can't move to grab objectives. Alternate view, plant an objective on top and place loads of conscripts within.

 

So i would go:

 

HQ

pask on punisher

company cmdrs

 

Elites

scions command squads

comissars

 

Troops

Conscripts?

Or standard guard with flamers.

 

Heavy

Manticore

Standard leman russ

Punisher

 

Also guard can take lots of cheap troops/HQ so use that to bring multiple batallions and gain command points (for stratagems).

 

some ideas for budget krieg (using cadians?): 

http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/kromlech-bits/7614-iron-reich-orcs-in-gasmasks

http://www.secretweaponminiatures.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=458

http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/custodian-heads-x10

http://product-images.highwire.com/12550906/pickelhelm-gas.jpg

http://www.beastsofwar.com/sci-fi-wargaming/spellcrow-bad-case-gas/

 

http://maxmini.eu/conversion-bits/legs/greatcoat-legs-bits

Edited September 27, 2017 by noigrim

[Marius Septimus]

Thanks for your long post man, your points seem clear, although I only understand 2/3 of it given my limited understanding of the rules yet.

 

Otherwise thanks for your links to the DKOK stuff, right now I am planning on setting my plans to them on hold until I finished my first Guardsmen army/company, but it's nice to see that I dont have to spent 40€+ on 1 squad if I want to build them then.

Do you know any good spot for getting backpacks for my Cadians? I've seen some miniatures are allready wearing them, but not all :/ .

[Halfpint100]

The heavy weapon squad box has backpacks. 6 per box of 3 heavy weapon bases. Ebay will have some if you need them Edited September 28, 2017 by Halfpint100

[Marius Septimus]

Cheers man, I am gonna take a look

[Marius Septimus]

So, as I already mentioned before, I am back with a few questions (hope I am not annoying anyone :D)

 

1. I've had a look at the Militarium Tempestus Scions, they look awesome. Could I use them in my army as a kind of Task Forces? And do they pefom like the elite troops they should be?

 

2. What are the benefits of veteran guardsmen squads and how do I get them? If they are just normal cadian shocktroop models, I planned on upgrading them with the Respirator upgrade kit from FW, would that be enough to classify them as "veteran"?

 

3. What is the difference between an Taurox and a Chimera?

[NatBrannigan]

I'll take this one Gents! Apologies in advance...

 

1) Scions are awesome at the moment. For some reason they count as a Troop choice so filling out the minimum 6 you need to fill a Battalion Detachment for those tasty Command Points is so easy. They can take 2 special weapons per 5 men in a Squad which can be devastating. Their Command Squads can take 4 special weapons in a 4 man squad meaning you can get a massive amount of Plasma Guns, Melta Guns and the underated Hot Shot Volley Guns onto the table.

 

But wait, there's more! They deep strike so those same Plasma Guns are arriving within 9" of an enemy squad. That's Rapid fire range so each one is firing twice. Ouch... Then The Scion commander can also deep strike and can dish out two orders. Now those Plasma Guns are also re-rolling 1's to hit (the only order worth giving in that situation) so you can overcharge with no risk. Ouch... They are fantastic models, great in the game and really do act as an Elite (for Guard anyway) special forces unit.

 

2) Veteran Guardsmen are really just normal Guardsmen with a better Ballistic Skill (3+) and the ability to take 3 special weapons rather than 1. They are, for now (codex may change this) an Elite choice which is a shame. That's it really, a decent choice but outshone but Scions at the moment. You can use normal Guardsmen for them. The fact that they have three special weapons shows they're Vets but most people do like them to look aesthetically different. The Forge World heads are a good choice yep. Mine wear Kilts. Some give them Shotguns because that's a Vet only option. Some just paint the Helmet a different colour. It's up to you really.

 

3)

Chimera carries 12, Taurox Carries 10. That means the Chimera can carry a squad AND a supporting character.

Chimera is slightly Tougher than a Taurox

Chimera can have either Multilaser and Heavy Bolter, Twin Heavy Bolter or Twin Heavy Flamer. The Taurox gets Twin Autocannon

Chimera is slightly more expensive points wise.

They both have good and bad points. I've been using a Twin Heavy Flamer Chimera recently and it's really done well. My Taurox was always confused because the Autocannons wanted it to stay still to avoid the -1 to hit form moving and shooting a Heavy Weapon, but it being a transport I wanted it moving. I now use that Taurox as a Tuarox Prime (awesome Scion only transport) for an Inquisitor and friends and the Chimera as my Transport for Guard (Command Squad with Heavy flamer and 2 flamers, Special weapon squad with 2 flamers and Demo charge in there. Hot stuff painted on the side of course!)  Just personal preference, though I think most people here will agree with that?

[Halfpint100]

So, as I already mentioned before, I am back with a few questions (hope I am not annoying anyone )

 

1. I've had a look at the Militarium Tempestus Scions, they look awesome. Could I use them in my army as a kind of Task Forces? And do they pefom like the elite troops they should be?

 

2. What are the benefits of veteran guardsmen squads and how do I get them? If they are just normal cadian shocktroop models, I planned on upgrading them with the Respirator upgrade kit from FW, would that be enough to classify them as "veteran"?

 

3. What is the difference between an Taurox and a Chimera?

 

1. I use 3 squads of 5 with a Tempestus prime and they work wonders!. 1 squad with 2 meltas, 2 squads with 2 plasma guns and a plasma pistol. They deepstrike. do a decent amount of damage and might survive to give you linebreaker/ annoy your opponent. Make sure you give your tempestus prime a command rod, this lets him issue 2 orders a turn (deepstriking overcharge plasma, while re-rolling ones to hit works wonders). 

 

2. Vet guard are normal guardsmen with 3+ BS, options for a heavy flamer and 3 other special weapons (instead of the normal 1 in a guard squad) at 60 points a squad (currently). I Have 2 squads of vets from plastic cadian kits; one has a bunch of extra kit and everyone has a sword/axe from the empire greatsword kit, the other comes up with a drill, so has respirators, shovels, pickaxes, rope and other gear you would need underground. There is no set kit for vets, so whatever you want them to be; they can be.

 

3. Tauroxs transport 10 and have 2 autocannons. Chimeras transport 12, +1T and can have heavy bolter/ heavy flamer hull weapon and a heavy bolter/ heavy flamer/ multilaser/ autocannon/ twin heavy bolter (last 2 from FW index). I don't own any tauroxs personally (I don't like the look) but are cheaper than chimeras and 2 autocannons is a good amount of firepower, Chimeras also have the benefit of being able to run a 10 man squad and some support characters. Both have benefits. I use 2 twin heavy flamer chimeras and they are fun! BURN EVERYTHING

 

3.2. Taurox primes however are a different story. They can only transport scions and commissars. However have 3+ BS and some gorgeous firepower. most common is the hot-shot volley guns, taurox gatling cannon and optional heavy stubber. This single tank pumps out 28 (31 with stubber) str 4 rounds (8 are -2 rend from the volley guns) at 24" with a lovely 14" move. All for 96/100 points (100 with stubber).

Edited September 28, 2017 by Halfpint100

[Thoridon]

Well, the troop slot for Scions felt a bit odd for the Index but makes sense for the upcoming Codex as they named Militarum Tempestus as a specific regiment to get its own doctrine. They already have the keyword Militarum Tempestus so won't be able to be taken in, say, a Mordian or Cadian detachment. This is assuming they say the regimental doctrines only apply to pure battleforged detachments and not mixed. Obviously in a non-battleforged / mixed Guard/Imperial detachment they could still be taken as troops, but then you wouldn't get doctrines, the same way all units in a Space Marine detachment have to be from the same chapter to use the chapter tactic.

 

Scions are one of the best units in the game for bringing a bunch of special weapons at relatively low cost and an inbuilt deep strike with good ballistic skill.

 

Veterans are going to be an option for non-Tempestus detachments where you want the special weapons and the other regimental doctrine for the same unit (eg. Mordians for sniping characters). Command squads do it with less bodies and an extra special but are limited to 1 squad per officer, so some people might look at Vets if they want extra special weapons at the 3+ BS. I'm building a couple of squads up and will be giving them extra bits, plus possibly an extra marking on the helmet to stand out from basic Infantry.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Thoridon

[Marius Septimus]

Thanks guys, you really hit the nail on the head with your answers

From what I've heard now I decided to definitly run Scions in my finished army, but first things first, I have to get in the game and the rules themselves.

My local GW told me the new Codex can be preorderd (or arrives?) on Saturday, which means that I will pay it a visit next wednesday to get my Start Collecting Box, think I will set up a WiP thread shortly after.

 

Thanks for your service,

 

The Emperor protects.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Marius Septimus