Devastation of Baal - Guy Haley - Discussion/Spoilers

[Bremon]

Maybe Sanguinius’ had a little brother named Sigismund. Plot twist!

[Sete]

You guys check the news and rumours thread! ;) Edited November 22, 2017 by Sete

[Jolemai]

You guys check the news and rumours thread!

 

Why? Something to do with this book there? If not, then this is off topic.

[TheHarrower]

 

Lemartes is on Diamor with the 1,2, 5, and 7 BA companies. The mention of him is only Dante wondering what Lemartes could do if given charge of all the DC gather on Baal. That scene with Mephiston was pretty awesome. The Knights of Blood had a pretty cool intro, as did the Angel's Vermillion. It turns out the Knights of Blood are descended directly from the Blood Angels, the current Chapter Master (forgot his name) mentions that all their original Captains and Chapter Master were originally Blood Angels.

 

Guess that gives my idea for a successor whose CM was a BA some decent backing lore wise

 

Yeah, that's right! I tried looking for it. I couldn't find it. Thanks.

 

I'm way behind on the BA novels. I need to read Dante and the Shield of Baal. Really excited for Mephiston: Revenant Crusade now too.

[NTaW]

Interesting that Angel's Blade and Devastation of Baal happen at the same time(ish), or enough so that those at Diamor weren't at Baal. As I understand it Cadia goes kaput right around/shortly after the events of Diamor so I guess in a weird timey-wimey sort of way Baal and Cadia happened in tandem but because of the Rift almost 100 years has passed for Guilliman while it's been this (seemingly) quick and dirty campaign against the Tyranids....?

 

This timeline is bending my mind a bit.

[TheHarrower]

Interesting that Angel's Blade and Devastation of Baal happen at the same time(ish), or enough so that those at Diamor weren't at Baal. As I understand it Cadia goes kaput right around/shortly after the events of Diamor so I guess in a weird timey-wimey sort of way Baal and Cadia happened in tandem but because of the Rift almost 100 years has passed for Guilliman while it's been this (seemingly) quick and dirty campaign against the Tyranids....?

 

This timeline is bending my mind a bit.

 

It's definitely weird. There was the offhand comment that some of the marines were older than Dante because of the Warp.

[tkni]

 

It's definitely weird. There was the offhand comment that some of the marines were older than Dante because of the Warp.

 

 

I thought that at first, it's quite poorly articulated.

 

They're referencing the 70 years that passed while Baal subjectively experienced ~6 months. So when Dante meets Karlaen, the latter's lived an 'extra' human lifetime.

[Lord_Caerolion]

In a way it's good to see this actually shown for once. We get told so often that the Warp messes with time when you travel through it, and how unreliable it is in that regard, but in the books it's never really treated as anything other than hyperdrive with the chance of daemons boarding you mid-travel.

[Panzer]

• The Tower of Amareo is empty. All the "Blood Wulfen" are dead thankfully. They were described as red-skinned, 12 foot tall with yellow claws and fangs and burning eyes. Vampires essentially. I hope we never models for them on the table top. The Knights of Blood are basically deformed like them. It's why they don't remove their helmets.

That bit actually sounds like GW purposefully got rid of them in the fluff so they don't have to put them on the table eventually if people would demand it (aka playing it safe). I think it's very possible that this part of the Red Thirts fluff now died out with Primaris having partially or fully fixed genes and the last remains of those creatures now being dead.

[Palwatch]

https://geekireland.com/interview-guy-haley-devestation-baal/

 

I interviewed Haley about DoB. Minor spoilers in the interview

[Indefragable]

https://geekireland.com/interview-guy-haley-devestation-baal/

 

I interviewed Haley about DoB. Minor spoilers in the interview

Well done, Palwatch. Covered most questions I would think the Fraters here in BA land would ask as well. Crisp, clean, professional, concise.

 

Bonus points for having the text to read. Not all of us can whip up an audio/video any time.

[Karhedron]

Great interview, thanks for that.

 

It is quite amusing to read as Guy once interviewed me when he worked for SFX magazine (now that's going back a few years ). The circle is now complete!

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, Sanguinius won't be coming back, according to him. Quite curious actually. Either he is under strict NDA, or maybe Guilliman just came back to play Emperor 2.0 and that is it for the loyalists thus far? Either way, fingers crossed for a LoW Sanguinor ;)

[Blindhamster]

Sanguinius wont come back, its a consistent message and doesnt make a lot of sense. HOWEVER

 

Sanguinius does something to Dante, it could be a vision, or it was legit sanguinius in the warp or something like that.

Also interesting that Dante has now decided the vision of a Golden Armoured Astartes defending the emperor is not him.

[Silverson]

Well, Sanguinius won't be coming back, according to him. Quite curious actually. Either he is under strict NDA, or maybe Guilliman just came back to play Emperor 2.0 and that is it for the loyalists thus far? Either way, fingers crossed for a LoW Sanguinor ;)

 

My current favourite fan theory is.

 

Guilliman is the emperor 2.0, he made Dante the warmaster 2.0 (guilliman stays at home..... in the southern part while Dante is of doing all the work.

 

Seth is the new logar and shows Dante that guilliman the real heretic out there.

 

The blood angels, dark angels and space wolves then do an istivaan 5 and wipe out all the traitorous primaris marines.

 

Then together they go bring justice to terra.

[Frater Cornelius]

Dante would never turn though.

[Guest]

 

Well, Sanguinius won't be coming back, according to him. Quite curious actually. Either he is under strict NDA, or maybe Guilliman just came back to play Emperor 2.0 and that is it for the loyalists thus far? Either way, fingers crossed for a LoW Sanguinor ;)

My current favourite fan theory is.

Guilliman is the emperor 2.0, he made Dante the warmaster 2.0 (guilliman stays at home..... in the southern part while Dante is of doing all the work.

Seth is the new logar and shows Dante that guilliman the real heretic out there.

The blood angels, dark angels and space wolves then do an istivaan 5 and wipe out all the traitorous primaris marines.

Then together they go bring justice to terra.

I don't think that's going to be how it pans out.

 

I think something is up with the Primaris, it is unusual how GW is handling them. They refuse to say anything about them and tease they could be something else. Then write books like they are the savior's.

 

I can't provide facts but my gut instinct is something big will happen in first half of 2018. Something that will throw this whole Primaris thing back in RG face. Whether that is Mortarion Plague Surgeons (or Fabius) have found a way to corrupt Primaris. Or Primaris feel left out by their chapter and thus rebel. Or all of the Primaris are really RG Geneseed. Or traitor geneseed was used and now is corrupted. Or all the "seconds" such as Seth, Calgar, Ragnar(?) feel as though they are being extinguished and disagree with the "primaries" (aka Dante, RG, Grimnar) and ride to civil war. It could be anything, but something is bound to crack and twist the storyline.

 

But...for whole chapters to attack terra in Horus Heresy style seems like its not possible. Who knows maybe I am wrong.

[Blindhamster]

I honestly think you're kidding yourselves if you think there will be some mass turning of the primaris marines. GW are not stupid, they wont turn around that quickly and invalidate peoples new collections.

We also know that primaris are definitely made from the gene stock that they are supposed to be made from - in dark imperium the blood angel is noted for having the typical looks of a blood angel, and in devastation of baal the first one dante meets is described as clearly having been resculpted in sanguinius image as with any other blood angel.

I've no doubt more will happen with the storyline, but i do not believe for a moment that it'll be a wholescale divide between primaris and original marines.

I also do not doubt that fabius will use them to make his numen perfect, we already saw that he wants to capture them as they are likely the key to all he has been doing. I also do not doubt that at some point we will get primaris marines go traitor. It MAY be from one of the main factions, but if it is, it will not be all of them. More likely it'll be a badab war type job of either brand new chapters going rogue or small groups from existing ones.

I also do not doubt that we will see the typical flaws for BA and SW in particular resurface eventually. Likewise I suspect that after the events of the DA book that is due out next year, we may see the primaris and regular DA come to an understanding that heralds the possibility of deathwing primaris.

[sockwithaticket]

I don't think it'd be anything so drastic as to jeopardise this new line they've created (unless sales fall off a cliff, in which case they may look to take their lumps and kill them off, but, again, I doubt they'd be that extreme)

I could see a narrative of ongoing difficulty of integration/chapters not getting the hang of creating them properly, so production needs to be centralised by Cawl/some flaw of temperament or longevity resulting in Primaris continuing to exist, but very much as their own separate force. 

if we were to go the whole HH 2.0 route that would be...disappointing to say the least. I don't think it's very likely.

[Silverson]

Sorry guys, my comment was ment as a little tongue and cheek joke that's all. I don't actually think primaris are evil or that guilliman wants to become emperor.

[Blindhamster]

from Dark Imperium (which is set after Devestation of Baal) we know that the success rate is very high for every chapter that has Primaris.

Integration with chapters is the big one, I think they'll push that for some time, focusing on various stories where they struggle to be integrated, but as is implied for the DA book, by the end of each story they will have come to an understanding.

[Blindhamster]

Sorry guys, my comment was ment as a little tongue and cheek joke that's all. I don't actually think primaris are evil or that guilliman wants to become emperor.

 

I expect at least a few primaris will go evil. They wouldn't be (trans)human if they didn't.

[Panzer]

I honestly think you're kidding yourselves if you think there will be some mass turning of the primaris marines. GW are not stupid, they wont turn around that quickly and invalidate peoples new collections.

 

We also know that primaris are definitely made from the gene stock that they are supposed to be made from - in dark imperium the blood angel is noted for having the typical looks of a blood angel, and in devastation of baal the first one dante meets is described as clearly having been resculpted in sanguinius image as with any other blood angel.

 

I've no doubt more will happen with the storyline, but i do not believe for a moment that it'll be a wholescale divide between primaris and original marines.

 

I also do not doubt that fabius will use them to make his numen perfect, we already saw that he wants to capture them as they are likely the key to all he has been doing. I also do not doubt that at some point we will get primaris marines go traitor. It MAY be from one of the main factions, but if it is, it will not be all of them. More likely it'll be a badab war type job of either brand new chapters going rogue or small groups from existing ones.

 

I also do not doubt that we will see the typical flaws for BA and SW in particular resurface eventually. Likewise I suspect that after the events of the DA book that is due out next year, we may see the primaris and regular DA come to an understanding that heralds the possibility of deathwing primaris.

I'm 100% with you there.

Primaris are the next big loyalist thing. In and out universe wise. GW won't suddenly turn them traitor in a large scale or whatever.

[Guest]

I honestly think you're kidding yourselves if you think there will be some mass turning of the primaris marines. GW are not stupid, they wont turn around that quickly and invalidate peoples new collections.

We also know that primaris are definitely made from the gene stock that they are supposed to be made from - in dark imperium the blood angel is noted for having the typical looks of a blood angel, and in devastation of baal the first one dante meets is described as clearly having been resculpted in sanguinius image as with any other blood angel.

I've no doubt more will happen with the storyline, but i do not believe for a moment that it'll be a wholescale divide between primaris and original marines.

I also do not doubt that fabius will use them to make his numen perfect, we already saw that he wants to capture them as they are likely the key to all he has been doing. I also do not doubt that at some point we will get primaris marines go traitor. It MAY be from one of the main factions, but if it is, it will not be all of them. More likely it'll be a badab war type job of either brand new chapters going rogue or small groups from existing ones.

I also do not doubt that we will see the typical flaws for BA and SW in particular resurface eventually. Likewise I suspect that after the events of the DA book that is due out next year, we may see the primaris and regular DA come to an understanding that heralds the possibility of deathwing primaris.

I never said mass turning of Primaris just the Primaris will be a key reason as to something happening. Nothing I said was "majority of Primaris attack the Imperium". Something simple as Fabius corrupting some means that we are back to status quo between Marines, yet the IG are the ones who suffer even more than ever as they now fighter even stronger Marines.

 

As for Primaris and their genefathers. There is already noted chapter that look, act, and use the same tactics of traitor legions yet their genefathers are a loyal one. Sons of the Phoenix is undoubtedly from Fulgrim yet they say he is Dorns sons. We have seen one that is a Iron Warriors/Death Guard (highly resilient, slow, and short range preference) yet they say they are Khan's sons. Point is something is NOT right with what they are saying who their genefathers. So this is why I wonder if the apothecaries have tested it in DoB.

[Blindhamster]

Oh I've no doubt that There will be some chapters made from Traitor Gene Seed that Guilliman does not know about. The fact we know Cawl has been experimenting with those gene seed is enough to make that more or less a given.

However, the Blood Angels are (and always have been) specifically noted for having a very distinctive physical change, they all look like Sanguinius, some more so than others, but every last one of them does. I don't believe for one second that the Blood Angels will turn out to be anything other than Blood Angels - maybe, at a push, possbly chimeras if GW decide to go that route. But They will have Sanguinius' blood.

Much like it'd be hard to "fake" a space wolf.

As far as the comment about mass turning, that was more aimed at the comment above yours (y)