Devastation of Baal - Guy Haley - Discussion/Spoilers

[Panzer]

 

I doubt they'd do bats, fortunately, given we've never been associated with that part of the vampire mythos, but I could certainly see him having some exsanguinated bodies on his base, with the blood spiraling around him. I'm more hoping, if they must do something like that, for just some plain psychic fire.

No, you must meet the same fate as the SWs. Since the Sanguinary Guard is gone you have the Bat Guard. Your new chapter tactic is the "Fangs of the Bat". Your will also have a new flying unit called "Bat Riders". Unique fast attack "Swarm of Bat's". Red Thirst and Black Rage are cured but a new Gene problem arises in the Primaris where they turn in Bat people similar to Vampires.

 

 

...and I think i just became public enemy #1 for the BA.

 

So you don't think that every second thing having to do with Blood is already SW-ish enough? Why Bats if we can have Blood everywhere? :P

That being said I'm one of those who don't mind the overly wolfiness of the Space Wolves. Like at all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[brother_b]

I'm more a fan of the "norse" or "viking" aspect of the space wolves. I remember when the wulfen or whatever those guys were came out. I thought to myself oh it's like their version of the DC. That being said, I love me some wolf brothers! I'm a fan of all the non standard chapters.

[Panzer]

I like both. Simply one of my favorite chapters. All the more reason why I hope our Codex will turn out good enough to finally go toe to toe with the SW player in my group. :D

[Guest]

Okay we can move the overtime wolfyness of the SW to a thread in the SW section back to Baal, blood and bats.

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Did you just bring the Baal back Caldersson??

 

 

 

Sorry, couldn't let that moment pass unmarked.

 

The Wolves are one of my very very favorites also. Love you guys.

I am just hanging about in and out hoping Sun Reaver maybe drops another spoiler.

 

Thanks for the laugh Caldersson. Much appreciated.

Thanks for the short spoilers Sun Reaver. Very much appreciated also.

[Guest]

Did you just bring the Baal back Caldersson??

 

 

 

Sorry, couldn't let that moment pass unmarked.

 

The Wolves are one of my very very favorites also. Love you guys.

I am just hanging about in and out hoping Sun Reaver maybe drops another spoiler.

 

Thanks for the laugh Caldersson. Much appreciated.

Thanks for the short spoilers Sun Reaver. Very much appreciated also.

I love both the BA and the SW, look at my companies name and you can see. The future of the BA is important because how GW deals with BA will be a glimpse how SW are handled. I fear the worst as some of the worst has happened, I pray for the best but prayers are merely words. As Seth said

 

RG would see BA be UMs in red. Also SW be UMs in grey by that phrase

[Frater Cornelius]

 

RG would see BA be UMs in red. Also SW be UMs in grey by that phrase

 

 

All will realize the glory of the Codex in due time

Edited November 20, 2017 by Frater Cornelius

[Karhedron]

I guess, I'm terrified that when we get a new Mephiston model he'll be floating around on an Yncarne-esque swirl of warp vampire bats, or something similarly idiotic.

I hope not. Having said that, I wouldn't mind the swirly look for a revamped (pun intended) Sanguinor.

 

Mephiston should look like the cover of the recent BL novel.

 

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/Product/DefaultBL/xlarge/BLPROCESSED-Mephiston-A5-HB-COVER-1400x2149.jpg

[Guest]

Is that plasma pistol connected... To his brain?

[Karhedron]

[roodie]

Regarding the Flesh Tearers...

 

I am completely fine with the idea of the new primaris brothers escorting the old cadre to battle, watching them succumb to the fury and turn into death company material with sadness, maintaining fire discipline to buy time for the reckless chargers.

[Karhedron]

I wonder if it is deliberate that the ambiguity (or downright hostility) that some characters display is a recognition of the reaction some fans feel to elements of their armies' character being stripped away by Primaris Marines? I am happy to accept Primaris reinforcements for my Blood Angels but they do look very much like red Ultramarines. I am happy to use them in the same roles as things like Tactical squads (which are pretty vanilla anyway apart from a few weapon options) but I would be very sad to see DC, SG etc disappear.

 

I like Guy Haley and he seems to have made a conscious effort to please the fans with this one as well as advancing the plot. Guiiliman honouring Dante is a nice touch while the role-call of survivors assures is that our special characters and signature units seem safe for the time being.

[Silverson]

wow, what a book. I actually believe its the best blood angels book I have ever read. I have since re-read some of the pages in an attempt to understand just where it leaves the sons of Sanguinius going forward in the fluff and on the table top.

 

Major spoilers underneath, I urge you not to read them unless you have read or do not inted to read the book. its a really good book.

 

Fluff-The biggest change to the setting to me is the fact blood angels space marines are essentially dead,to be replaced wholesale with blood angels primaris marines now and apon the death of the remaining 300 blood angels space marines. after the battle against the tyranids when Dante is conversing with Seth and after that with the remaining command of the blood angels (captain karlaen, Mephiston, Corbulo et..) it is discussed and basically all new aspirants from now on will become primaris marines and not space marines 

 

tabletop - Short term I don't see much changing for our models especially in the upcoming codex we will still be able to use space marines and all will be catered for. long term tho it appears that unless something drastic happens we wont see any new blood angels specific space marines (if any space marines at all), instead everything new will be primaris marines.

 

fluff - next we have the unique units to the blood angels, sanguinary guard are down to one marine called Caraeus he is to become the new Exalted Herald of Sanguinius (the previous one being Sepharan). its said Dante will have new sanguinary guard as he has a plethora of heroes to choose from now.

Death company- did well all dying in combat with the xenos foe and any number of the 300 remaining space marines could fall in future battles. The beasts of Amareo locked away in the tower came out and kicked some serious butt. lastly their is a librarian dreadnought in a vault under the arx angelicom that is 3000 years old and most probably survived as he can not leave the place he is in. No Primaris marine has suffered from the black rage during the Indomitus crusade and the majority of people asked about the red thirst have no idea about it.

 

Tabletop - the sanguinary guard are fine as finding 20 heroes out of the 300ish that just survived that battle will be easy, tho I don't see Caraeus getting his own model the title he is given seems to suggest a Sargent type figure among the sanguinary guard. there is a possibility of primaris sanguinary guard tho in the future. the death comany are also ok short tearm as long as the 300 space marines are alive but could go the way of the dinosaurs unless the primaris change and start falling. as for the beasts of Amareo we could see these become a unit in game at some point as the red thirst is possibly still a part of the primaris marines even tho it could be in an extremely minute amount of marines.

 

All the special characters Gw has models for survived the battle and their armor repaired (so can assume Dante's jump pack was also repaired after it was smashed by the swarmlord), the most note worthy thing being that during a conversation between Dante and Guilliman, Guilliman tel's Dante that he no longer needs to pose as Sanguinius and he can put aside his weariness. To me this means we could see a new model for Dante, one where he is not wearing the face of his primarch

[Pathstrider]

The final chapter or so kinda felt like a checklist to make it match the current situation.

 

Tbh, I was i little disappointed all the specials made it out - if there is a read across to the new codex, my expectation is it’s no new characters and no new models for existing ones.

[Charlo]

Thanks for the summaries and such those of you who have. Seems like Guy gave us a really nice summary.

 

I don't think our codex will have much in the way of new stuff (no models unless they suddenly pull a total blinder on us!) but the ground work is there for new units and expansion. Especially like how Dante ends up.

 

Also, god damn I love this:

 

"Get up, Dante. I will not accept displays of humility from a man like you. You are one of the few in this era who have earned the right to speak with me on equal terms. Rise."

[Guest]

Regarding the Flesh Tearers...

 

I am completely fine with the idea of the new primaris brothers escorting the old cadre to battle, watching them succumb to the fury and turn into death company material with sadness, maintaining fire discipline to buy time for the reckless chargers.

Then the old cadre die off eventually and the BA+successors are nothing but UM in red. Girlyman wins over another chapter. No, the thirst and rage are essential to the BA. Their flaw is their character. This is the same as the SW, as much as I hate the potrayal and Wulfen models it is their heritage and uniqueness.

[roodie]

 

Regarding the Flesh Tearers...

 

I am completely fine with the idea of the new primaris brothers escorting the old cadre to battle, watching them succumb to the fury and turn into death company material with sadness, maintaining fire discipline to buy time for the reckless chargers.

Then the old cadre die off eventually and the BA+successors are nothing but UM in red. Girlyman wins over another chapter. No, the thirst and rage are essential to the BA. Their flaw is their character. This is the same as the SW, as much as I hate the potrayal and Wulfen models it is their heritage and uniqueness.

 

 

Yep, I don't like the long-term consequences also. But there is a spark of hope yet... I remember a scene where Seth's anger is stirred by the Knights of the Bloods' own anger, and he is surprised that so far this happened only with his battle-brothers. What if the red thirst is a dormant ability, and being amongst the older brothers in battle awakens it in the primaris marines? 

[Xenith]

I'm back in a country with a GW next week and can't wait to pick this book up. I think they've really nailed the last few books. Darius Hink's book was a little...Dr Who-y, running from set piece to set piece with a chosen one/assistant, but a good story overall. 

 

I'm unsure if I like what Haley did with Baal, giving the moons cities and things, as well as a formal ritual trial site - it kind of went against everything that had been written before. Why would people farm radiation when they can go and live in the city and be a merchant or something?

 

As long as we stay away from making Baal seem...hospitable...I'm ok. The only part of the Primaris/Guilliman stuff I dont like is 

 

suggesting Baal be made into a holiday resort. I hope Dante pushes back against that.

[Panzer]

 

Regarding the Flesh Tearers...

 

I am completely fine with the idea of the new primaris brothers escorting the old cadre to battle, watching them succumb to the fury and turn into death company material with sadness, maintaining fire discipline to buy time for the reckless chargers.

Then the old cadre die off eventually and the BA+successors are nothing but UM in red. Girlyman wins over another chapter. No, the thirst and rage are essential to the BA. Their flaw is their character. This is the same as the SW, as much as I hate the potrayal and Wulfen models it is their heritage and uniqueness.

 

Okay let's be real for once....do you guys really really seriously believe that GW would do something ridiculous as turning BA into UM in red? Everything they did so far in 8th is to make subfactions more different, not more similar. It would also be an extremely dumb move marketing-wise.

[Spagunk]

I'm back in a country with a GW next week and can't wait to pick this book up. I think they've really nailed the last few books. Darius Hink's book was a little...Dr Who-y, running from set piece to set piece with a chosen one/assistant, but a good story overall. 

 

I'm unsure if I like what Haley did with Baal, giving the moons cities and things, as well as a formal ritual trial site - it kind of went against everything that had been written before. Why would people farm radiation when they can go and live in the city and be a merchant or something?

 

As long as we stay away from making Baal seem...hospitable...I'm ok. The only part of the Primaris/Guilliman stuff I dont like is 

 

suggesting Baal be made into a holiday resort. I hope Dante pushes back against that.

 

I'll have to read the book when it actually comes out at my book store but in my opinion...

 

Part of the issue with baal is that Sanguinius had to abandon it after ascending to the main leader. From what I remember, he hadn't even conquered all of Baal yet before he was taken by the emperor. So the people never had a chance to re-terraform. Hopefully this means that RG gives him the tools to help bring back the planet

[deathspectersgt7]

 

 

Regarding the Flesh Tearers...

 

I am completely fine with the idea of the new primaris brothers escorting the old cadre to battle, watching them succumb to the fury and turn into death company material with sadness, maintaining fire discipline to buy time for the reckless chargers.

Then the old cadre die off eventually and the BA+successors are nothing but UM in red. Girlyman wins over another chapter. No, the thirst and rage are essential to the BA. Their flaw is their character. This is the same as the SW, as much as I hate the potrayal and Wulfen models it is their heritage and uniqueness.

 

Okay let's be real for once....do you guys really really seriously believe that GW would do something ridiculous as turning BA into UM in red? Everything they did so far in 8th is to make subfactions more different, not more similar. It would also be an extremely dumb move marketing-wise.

 

Yup.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

Regarding the Flesh Tearers...

 

I am completely fine with the idea of the new primaris brothers escorting the old cadre to battle, watching them succumb to the fury and turn into death company material with sadness, maintaining fire discipline to buy time for the reckless chargers.

Then the old cadre die off eventually and the BA+successors are nothing but UM in red. Girlyman wins over another chapter. No, the thirst and rage are essential to the BA. Their flaw is their character. This is the same as the SW, as much as I hate the potrayal and Wulfen models it is their heritage and uniqueness.

 

Okay let's be real for once....do you guys really really seriously believe that GW would do something ridiculous as turning BA into UM in red? Everything they did so far in 8th is to make subfactions more different, not more similar. It would also be an extremely dumb move marketing-wise.

 

Yup.

 

Well...I guess I should've expected that from you. 

[Leonaides]

And yet if corbulo had found a way to fix the flaw, we'd see seth happily take it as a way to avoid the death of his chapter. Cawl has managed to do what generations of sang priests have been trying to do, but he had better equipment, the emperors notes, and a frak-load more time to get it right.

 

RG isnt trying to turn the ba's into ultramarines either. The primaris are still natives of baal system, still with BA geneseed in. They are just organised in old legion style and have yet to be incorporated into the existing chapter rituals etc.

[sockwithaticket]

And yet if corbulo had found a way to fix the flaw, we'd see seth happily take it as a way to avoid the death of his chapter. Cawl has managed to do what generations of sang priests have been trying to do, but he had better equipment, the emperors notes, and a frak-load more time to get it right.

 

RG isnt trying to turn the ba's into ultramarines either. The primaris are still natives of baal system, still with BA geneseed in. They are just organised in old legion style and have yet to be incorporated into the existing chapter rituals etc.

Would he? I'm sure Seth would have happily taken something that would prevent his brothers from succumbing to the Black Rage or completely falling to the Thirst and having to be put down or put in the FT's Tower of the Lost (if they even have an equivalent, but something that eradicated the Thirst entirely? Not so sure.  He seems pretty happy with his guys as hyper-aggressive and brutal, he just wants them not to cross that line into full on feral bezerkers devoid of any control.

[Karhedron]

Given that this whole thread has a spoiler warning, do we need spoiler tags in every post?