Sly Marbo returns!

[Imperator Deus]

Has anyone put him on the table yet? Did he do alright or is his price a bit too steep after all? Sometimes things look lackluster on paper, but turn out to be pretty decent in practice. 65 points is a little high for a glorified guardsman, but if he can be used as a one shot assassin he might be worth it. After all if you can kill a key character in your opponent's army for 65 points it could turn out to be a bargain, depending on who he kills. Looking at his rules on paper, I have my doubts about whether or not Marbo could pull it off with any reliability against any army out there - except maybe another guard army. I'm curious, has anyone had any success with the one man army?

[Ishagu]

I've used him. He's actually great. Going back into the shadows has loads of utility and I got 2D3 mortal wounds out of him. Made his point back and scored objectives.

 

People focusing on the blade profile are looking at him too simplistically.

He's a guaranteed objective or line breaker at minimum.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Ishagu

[Feral_80]

He's not going to be able to assassinate anything really, with those weapons. Perhaps he might kill a Company Commander who is worth half his cost.

 

His only useful ability is that of objective grabbing, potentially twice. I've used him once at that just to give him a go, and he worked the first time. Then he was utterly useless.

 

Definitely not worth his cost, unfortunately.

[Ishagu]

Lol he's not just there to assasinate. When I used him he killed two Terminators with demo charges. Remember you get these abilities twice. You don't need LOS either.

 

You're truly underestimating his utility and ability and ignoring the fact he can redeploy.

 

He's 100% worth his cost.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Ishagu

[Feral_80]

Since the question included his assassination skills, I included that in my reply.

 

If you were lucky and rolled 4+ twice for the mortal wounds ability then good for you, but rest assured that is not the way he's going to work. You pulled of an above-average performance. Assuming you get to use him twice, the average is one dead terminator. 'Guaranteed' objective and esp. linebreaker is simply wrong, since you are assuming a lot in order to meet those conditions. Unless your games all end on turn 4.

[Ishagu]

Eversor Assasin will certainly kill more models, but in a game of bubbles of chaff will ultimately be stranded or killed.

 

Marbo is worse than an Eversor in a fight, though would potentially kill 2/3 marines in cc out of reserve, but the redeployment ability means he won't be stranded.

 

Nothing is guaranteed, nothing works 100% of the time.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Ishagu

[OnboardG1]

Having seen my Eldar player friend pull the "vanish and then reappear on the objective he needed to get a clutch point", that redeploy ability is really strong. That's why I'm going to take him. The mortal wounds are tasty but being able to DS somewhere relevant, then DS somewhere else relevant (probably shooting nurglings or other hidey chaff off objectives) is the business.

[Finkmilkana]

The problems with the „deep strike again“ is that he will not be on the board for turn 2 at all. That’s a pretty big downside in and of itself. That an enemy can just shut it down by moving close to him is another thing to keep in mind.

[Feral_80]

Exactly. He can only do his trick if there are no enemies within 6". In the games I play, by turn 3 there is no objective on the field that has no models nearby, because any player will naturally try to control/contest as many as he can. Realistically, Marbo might score an objective when you deploy him on turn 1-2, but the second time he'll be just a (useless) distraction guardsman.

 

Which is exactly how he worked when I tried him, by the way.

 

Badly overpriced, and with poor rules that do him no justice at all.

[Ishagu]

You think he's overpriced. Don't state it as fact.

In my experience he is great value as a utility infiltrator.

[WarriorFish]

Let's not get caught in semantics please; most of what is said on the B&C is opinion after all

 

Marbo does feel on the expensive side, but not "stay on the shelf" level. For an army that isn't very fast he could offer some flexibility and reach, plus Rule of Cool of course. Besides it's not like Guard players lack experience at making things that are less than stellar work over the years

[Tirak]

The lack of AP combined with his price make him stay on the shelf bad. His terrible toughness and bad save make him stay on the shelf bad. I have to agree that against a hoard army Sly has nothing to do as he won't have room to do a cheeky grab of those objectives on Turn 3+, the joke of course being that hoard armies with bad saves are the only things he can dent. Against an elite army he has some room to steal objectives, but then he'll get shot to pieces because he's T3 with a 5+. A single round of shooting from some chaos space marines breaks him easy, and why not to prevent his 50% chance of a smite for the paltry cost of a tactical marine squad's worth of blasting? A group of Scions is 50 points, 15 points cheaper than Marbo, can deepstrike just as well and has better survivability. A low mobility army would be better suited to dragging along the Scions as they'll be a thorn in the side of the enemy for longer than Sly.

 

Can you shoehorn him into an army? Yes. Can you win with having him in your army? Yes. Are you reducing your efficiency by doing so? Yes. Sub optimal, over priced, under powered, but hey I know some guard players still bring Commissars. Of course you can force him to work, but he'll never be efficient without a price drop or an stat buff.

[Ishagu]

I find it funny when people measure unit effectiveness by damage output alone. This is an objective game.

 

Marbo is a unit that cab deploy anywhere, and then re-deploy, has a small footprint and is easy to hide.

[Inso]

Wow... and I thought games were supposed to be a bit of fun :D!

 

I think Marbo is just that... a bit of fun. 

 

It's getting far too serious in here :o :D

[Tirak]

I find it funny when people measure unit effectiveness by damage output alone. This is an objective game.

 

Marbo is a unit that cab deploy anywhere, and then re-deploy, has a small footprint and is easy to hide.

 

If you think that's the only point we're arguing, then you're not reading what we're saying. Sly Marbo is not tough enough to survive even a modicum of shooting. As soon as other players start to understand his ability to pop in and out, they will devote the small amount of shooting required to eliminate him from the board. At T3 and only a 5+ save, he dies with almost no effort. His lack of Invuln makes him vulnerable at all stages of combat, which means against an opponent who is even moderately familiar with his rules, you will not have the chance to deploy Marbo a second time, and if you are, odds are that by turn 3, you won't have any good place to drop in on in an objective based game.

 

This is why I continually point out a cheaper MSU of Scions. They have a 4+ save, which becomes a 3+ in cover, just like Marbo. They're 15 points cheaper, and are made of 5 wounds instead of 4.

[Withershadow]

You should ALWAYS be able to deploy him a second time.  The first deployment can easily be made out of line of sight/range of anything on the board.  He's got a 3+ save in cover, 2+ with a stratagem if it's really that serious. 

[Finkmilkana]

I find it funny when people measure unit effectiveness by damage output alone. This is an objective game.

.

Considering I only had one game in 8th so far where by turn 4 one side wasn’t tabled or shot down to 1-2 units, I start to feel like 8th is not an objective game anymore.

I would be very happy if playing objectives made sense. But when everyone optimizes for damage and an army that is optimized for damage can table/dezimate pretty much everyone, you kinda have to optimize for damage/survivability ratio and objective grabbing that only works if the enemy ignores the model doesn’t matter much.

 

You should ALWAYS be able to deploy him a second time. The first deployment can easily be made out of line of sight/range of anything on the board. He's got a 3+ save in cover, 2+ with a stratagem if it's really that serious.

But then you are back to only grabbing an objective once in turn 3, unless there is some objective the enemy can’t reach turn 1 (which would probably be one on your side of the table, so it could be grabbed without deep strike). Edited January 30, 2018 by Finkmilkana

[Ishagu]

If none of your games are lasting past turn 4 you're clearly not playing with enough terrain.

 

I've not had a game end before turn 5 since the second week of 8th. We realised that shooting gallery scenarios become the norm without LoS blocking. It's the same in ITC tournaments where all terrain bottom floor is LOS blocking and it resolves problems.

 

I'm baffled when people play the game like this for extended periods of time. I run Guilliman armies and I started putting more terrain down when I was dealing too much damage in my initial games.

[Finkmilkana]

No, I actually play with a lot of terrain/sight blockers, so much that ranges above 24‘ are mostly pointless unless they ignore line of sight. And many of the armies I play with/against are even meele armies. Doesn’t change anything. Any meele army worth their points also has fully engaged their enemy by turn 1-2.

[Ishagu]

So you've swung it the other Way? Lol lower the terrain!

[Tirak]

You should ALWAYS be able to deploy him a second time.  The first deployment can easily be made out of line of sight/range of anything on the board.  He's got a 3+ save in cover, 2+ with a stratagem if it's really that serious. 

 

I'm sorry but my games simply do not match up with this. The prevalence of high mobility units in games I've played and aggressive objective grabbing strategies means the only safe place to deploy Marbo will be behind your own lines where he can use the Character rule to shield him from return fire, which completely wastes his deepstrike potential and makes me ask how is that better than a straight up infantry squad? He has to forward deploy to grab objectives you don't already own, which makes him vulnerable and easy to pick off, Marbo will not see Turn 2 to get off the board. His 3+ while in cover save is easily replicated by Scions, who are not as reliant on terrain for their save being normally a 4+ compared to Marbo's 5+, and have 5 wounds instead of Marbo's 4, all while being 15 points cheaper. His smite is unreliable, his normal weapons can't make his damage stick, and his ability to deploy is so heavily reliant on what  you draw and your opponent ignoring part of the board, that a competent opponent is going to blow him into little tiny chunks with minimal shooting and move on.

 

I get that some commanders want to pretend Marbo is a good option, but he isn't. 2/3rds of his deepstrike kit only is useful against low save hoard armies, which come in numbers to negate the amount of damage he can put out, and can field enough board control to lock him out of being ninja objective grabber. His smite is unreliable and if you place him in a position to garuntee a second chance at using it, on turn 3 at the earliest, you're sacrificing that objective grabbing as well as any damage potential he can put out. He's a poor combination of traits that don't work. If he had AP he could stick it to elite armies and be a dangerous target, if he had an Invuln he could survive dropping on side objectives and take the light return fire it costs to put him down, if he could use multiple ambush abilities at the same time he could clear an area, and if he were cheaper he could be a fun replacement for an elite choice for some variety. At 65 points, T3 with a 5+ save, he is too brittle to survive on the same board as the 5 man tactical marine squad he costs to field.

[duz_]

We seem to be on some kinda weird repeat loop here.

So lets lay it out:

 

Marbo is probably not the most competitive model around. Make sense his release literally didnt come with matched (competitive) play points.

 

Is he a fun moderately powered unit thag would be fun in friendly games? It would appear yes.

 

Will he win games in any style? Probably not and there's very few units in the game in general that will.

 

Did GW have to make this model for us in the first place? No, but they did and that's great because it means they're noticing what gets gamers excited.

 

So lets calm down and move on from; is he competitive or not.

 

 

=][= Ps. Consider this a topic nudge =][=

Edited January 7, 2018 by duz_

[Inso]

Whatever the reason for his return... or whether he is effective or not... the release has spurred me on to convert a Marbo of my own so I'm happy that he has turned up. 

 

He will make a characterful addition to my 'pretty standard' Astra Millitarum army (well... it's made up of Squats but they have pretty standard organisation).

[Deschenus Maximus]

I plan on using Marbo as the HQ for my Assassins Vanguard detachment... It's true that he isn't as killy as say an Eversor, but I think you can get a lot of mileage out of his flexibility.

[Tirak]

I plan on using Marbo as the HQ for my Assassins Vanguard detachment... It's true that he isn't as killy as say an Eversor, but I think you can get a lot of mileage out of his flexibility.

Fairly certain you can't do that. Marbo can only be taken in a Catachan detachment, which it won't be because you added in non Regiment <Catachan> units.