[DW] Blackthorn and Swordhand: OOC Thread

[Steel Company]

CM:

 

Felling:

 

Reduces Unnatural Toughness by one level, in example; Unnatural Toughness X2 becomes base toughness. In Akkad's case 8 toughness bonus becomes 4 (ouch!)

 

Toxic:

 

Target makes a toughness test or takes extra damage by passing Armour and Toughness, targets that are immune to toxins are immune to this damage.

 

 

So by my math:

 

Akkad 22 wounds

8 armour (location 11 is Right Arm)

8 toughness

 

Becomes:

 

Akkad 22 wounds

8 armour (location 11 is Right Arm)

4 toughness

 

 

Inital damage from the rifle: 29 Pen 7

 

Armour reduces damage to 28

 

Toughness reduces damage to 24

 

Akkad has 22 wounds, Akkad is at -2, -2 becomes -1 due to true grit

 

If Akkad fails the toughness test he takes an additional 9 damage, halved to either 4 or 5 depending on if you are rounding up or down with True grit, putting Akkad at either -5 or -6 on the impact chart for arms.

 

So at a minimum he drops his heavy bolter (the effect for -1 from the rending hit of the Sniper Rifle)

 

At worst:

 

He drops his heavy Bolter (-1)

Takes 1 level of fatigue (-2)

Takes 1 level of fatigue drops anything carried in his Right Arm(-3)

Takes 1 level of Fatigue, stunned for 1 round and that arm is useless for 1d5 rounds (-4)

Takes 1 level of fatigue, halved BS/WS for 1D10 rounds, drops anything in his right hand (-5)

Takes 1 level of Fatigue, make toughness test or lose use of right hand (-6)

 

All of those effects stack. If he didn't have True Grit by being am Astartes, he would be K.I.A.

 

 

Edit:

 

With fatigue, Akkad is at -10 to all things, he can take a maximum of 8 levels of fatigue, before falling to the ground unconscious for two minuets before we could reawaken at 1 level of fatigue... So he is, if the toxic quality did effect him, at either 4 or 5 levels of fatigue.

 

Yea, Ultra patter sniper rifles can be devastating in the hands of a skilled shot.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Steel Company

[Commissar Molotov]

Thanks for laying it out for me - much clearer than before. I do find the Deathwatch system makes it hard to keep track of these things. The more players can do to help me keep track of this rather than throwing strings of dice rolls at me, the better. (Makes me less stressed!) - I am under the impression that Akkad was shot in the body (armour 10) though.

 

I will look and see how to amend my post so that it is as clear as possible for Mazer to move forward.

 

I also see how I'm going to need to ramp up the genestealers to challenge you...

Edited March 27, 2018 by Commissar Molotov

[Steel Company]

Thanks for laying it out for me - much clearer than before. I do find the Deathwatch system makes it hard to keep track of these things. The more players can do to help me keep track of this rather than throwing strings of dice rolls at me, the better. (Makes me less stressed!) - I am under the impression that Akkad was shot in the body (armour 10) though.

 

I will look and see how to amend my post so that it is as clear as possible for Mazer to move forward.

 

I also see how I'm going to need to ramp up the genestealers to challenge you...

 

 

Genestealers have Razor sharp on their claws, they also punch pretty hard....

 

Depending on the version you use (well if you use pre-errata versions or not)

 

The adventure you are basing this from:

 

2D10+12 Pen 5 R, Razor Sharp (with 2 DoS double Pen)

 

MoX Genestealer:

 

1D10+12 Pen 5 R, Razor Sharp (with 2 DoS double Pen)*

Can have: Toxin Sacks (does 1D10 toxic damage on a failed toughness test) and/or Adrenal Glands (Grants furious Assault talent)

 

 

The MoX version has a better toughness and dodge chance but slightly weaker armour value over the other one.

[Commissar Molotov]

Yeah, both you and Mazer have mentioned that. But I have been working on some more Cult elements, such as Aberrants, that aren't in the DW rules...

[Steel Company]

Yeah, both you and Mazer have mentioned that. But I have been working on some more Cult elements, such as Aberrants, that aren't in the DW rules...

 

 

I'll take a skim through my digital copies of OW, DH, RT and BC to see if I can find anything and then point you in a good direction.

 

 

Edit:

 

 

Sorry, closest I came was the Hulking Mutant found in Only War page 353... he wouldn't be much of a threat to an Astartes, but a serious one to a Guardsmen..

 

That being said, their unnatural stats work a bit differently, as after FFG became aware of how broken multipliers can gett, they changed it so that it gave a flat number, in this case the Hulking Mutant gets Unnatural S (2) and Unnatural T (2), where as CSM get Unnatural S (4) Unnatural T (4)... Felling weapons now get a Felling (X) where X is the amount of Unnatural T they negate.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Steel Company

[Xin Ceithan]

I was going to go with, "Does that count as thinking outside the box?"

Am I to late for some smart remark about how archeosavants are linking this to an obscure pre-unity thing called Boxing Day?

[A.T.]

Toxic:

Target makes a toughness test or takes extra damage by passing Armour and Toughness, targets that are immune to toxins are immune to this damage.

This is how I thought it worked until I read the rule in the deathwatch book while taking the shot.

 

It's a toughness test at -5 for every point of damage taken - relevant for those toxic genestealers. Fortunately still impeded by true grit.

[Steel Company]

 

Toxic:

Target makes a toughness test or takes extra damage by passing Armour and Toughness, targets that are immune to toxins are immune to this damage.

This is how I thought it worked until I read the rule in the deathwatch book while taking the shot.

 

It's a toughness test at -5 for every point of damage taken - relevant for those toxic genestealers. Fortunately still impeded by true grit.

 

 

 

Right, I forgot that part... so ouch Toughness test at -45 for Akkad... guess he's likely eating the 9 damage.

[A.T.]

Right, I forgot that part... so ouch Toughness test at -45 for Akkad... guess he's likely eating the 9 damage.

Based on damage from the initial hit - so toughness test at -120

 

Reduced to a mere -110 for a space marine due to their armour, and possibly another 10 for unnatural toughness. I was a little surprised to find they don't all have resistance(toxins).

[Steel Company]

 

Right, I forgot that part... so ouch Toughness test at -45 for Akkad... guess he's likely eating the 9 damage.

Based on damage from the initial hit - so toughness test at -120

 

Reduced to a mere -110 for a space marine due to their armour, and possibly another 10 for unnatural toughness. I was a little surprised to find they don't all have resistance(toxins).

 

 

Still, Akkad is looking to be at either -5 or -6 depending on if you round up or down, I can't remember... Either way, he is stunned for a round so he is out of the fight... well unless he manages to get 4 DoS on his dodge that is....

[Commissar Molotov]

Right, I'm a bit more on top of things now - back on a computer, and I'm looking in the Deathwatch errata. The Ultra Sniper rifle is listed in the errata as a 1D10+4 weapon, but A.T. rolled 3D10 (plus again for Righteous Fury) - am I missing something obvious? 

[Steel Company]

Right, I'm a bit more on top of things now - back on a computer, and I'm looking in the Deathwatch errata. The Ultra Sniper rifle is listed in the errata as a 1D10+4 weapon, but A.T. rolled 3D10 (plus again for Righteous Fury) - am I missing something obvious? 

 

 

Accurate weapon special quality.

 

When used with the Aim action weapons with this quality gain an additional 1D10 to damage per 2 DoS to a maximum of 2D10

 

Felling

Toxic

 

We've been over both of those, what I'm not sure on is how A.T. got the extra pen from the weapon....

Edited March 27, 2018 by Steel Company

[Mazer Rackham]

No.  The accurate quality of the weapon buffs +1D10 for each two degrees of success up to a max of +2D10 as stated above.

 

Errata says Pen 5.

 

MR.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Mazer Rackham

[Commissar Molotov]

The Deathwatch GM Screen says that accurate provides an additional +10 to hit with an aim action, but A.T. was firing using Overwatch - Overwatch and Aim are separate and discrete actions, aren't they?

 

EDIT: Atratus has a focal targeter as part of his combat sight. This is his Chapter trapping, and increases the penetration value by his perception bonus.  

Edited March 27, 2018 by Commissar Molotov

[Steel Company]

The Deathwatch GM Screen says that accurate provides an additional +10 to hit with an aim action, but A.T. was firing using Overwatch - Overwatch and Aim are separate and discrete actions, aren't they?

 

EDIT: Atratus has a focal targeter as part of his combat sight. This is his Chapter trapping, and increases the penetration value by his perception bonus.  

 

Ahh

 

But he used the aim action in his first turn, as a full action that granted him +20 to hit on his next shot.

 

The GM screen is great, but it leaves out a few things that are in the core book under weapon qualities.

[Mazer Rackham]

I'll be posting something shortly. 

 

MR.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Mazer Rackham

[Commissar Molotov]

This is something particular with forum-based roleplays - we can go back and forensically analyse every move everyone made. A.T. did ask to aim, but as far as I understood, he was overwatching instead once he realised the door was open. He took a snap shot as the door opened and Solastion threw the box. 

 

In the real world, I would make an arrangement and we'd all move on. 

 

This is my plea to you all - if you are using special rules, or you want the special rules to be taken into account when I update, please make them as clear and legible as possible for me. If you do not take responsibility for your bits and pieces, I will ignore them. This combat is important specifically because it's player versus player, and your actions might affect other players - but in a "real" combat, once I've taken an hour to update, I'm not going to go back because of a mistake made by a player - that will lead to all sorts of confusion. 

 

My ruling is going to be this: 

 

A.T. used a overwatch shot - the Ultra Sniper rifle is 1D10+4 - I will consider that you rolled a 10, plus 3 additional Righteous Fury damage. Pen 2, +5 Perception bonus for a Total Pen 7, with Damage 17. 

Felling (1) will reduce Akkad's TB to 4, Armour 3 will reduce the damage to 10. Toxic will require Akkad to take a Toughness test at -50 (which he will fail?) or take 1D10 toughness damage. 

Akkad will also have to take a -20 Pinning Test as well. 

 

I'm going to copy this into the IC thread and we can move on. Akkad is next in the turn sequence anyway. 

[A.T.]

Atratus was initially aiming through the closed door (via his auspex scope) as that has to be done before going into overwatch.

After that I had assumed you'd put me on overwatch when my posted action to shoot Akkad was invalidated by the blue team keeping the door shut in the first turn. Possible that I got the turn sequence mixed up?

 

I did try to include all of the weapon traits and modifiers in my initial post but I see though that the bonus damage from the accurate trait wasn't clearly stated, and it was quite a jumble of extra rolls and rules.

Is there a more standardized post format you would prefer?

Edited March 27, 2018 by A.T.

[Commissar Molotov]

Lots of confusion on both sides I think. I'm still learning the rules as I have said - and it sometimes seems the Deathwatch rules are trying to get in the way of us having fun! This is one of the things that we'd clear up instantly round a table.

 

I've looked at Overwatch in the DW rulebook and can't see any stipulation that you have to aim before overwatching? (Wouldn't that cancel the -20 penalty from Overwatch?) 

 

I've not stipulated a standardised post format - I've tried not to be too restrictive, but I would say that the more you can make me aware of, the easier it is for me to balance everything. 

[A.T.]

I've looked at Overwatch in the DW rulebook and can't see any stipulation that you have to aim before overwatching? (Wouldn't that cancel the -20 penalty from Overwatch?)

Sorry, I was unclear there.

 

Aim is a bonus to your next shot that you can hold onto as long as you don't shoot, switch targets, etc.

It's not required for overwatch. This was just one of those odd situations where I could see the target to aim at him, but didn't want to shoot as there was a door in the way.

 

Seems that we've arrived at an outcome though.

[Commissar Molotov]

Interesting - I think I might be mixing rules from Deathwatch and Inquisitor here! 

[Steel Company]

Lots of confusion on both sides I think. I'm still learning the rules as I have said - and it sometimes seems the Deathwatch rules are trying to get in the way of us having fun! This is one of the things that we'd clear up instantly round a table.

 

I've looked at Overwatch in the DW rulebook and can't see any stipulation that you have to aim before overwatching? (Wouldn't that cancel the -20 penalty from Overwatch?) 

 

I've not stipulated a standardised post format - I've tried not to be too restrictive, but I would say that the more you can make me aware of, the easier it is for me to balance everything. 

 

 

I'm the first to admit that the Deathwatch rules can be clunky...

 

I will also state that I may have had a hand in the confusion, as I had Tyber holding on opening the door till all team members were ready to take their action... to me that implied that we were delaying our actions until A.T. was ready to shoot on his turn.

 

Either way, the situation has been resolved and we can move on while also learning how much more clear we need to be in our posts.

[Mazer Rackham]

On the subject of being clear....

 

Who is in front of me in range and LOS? 

 

MR.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Mazer Rackham

[Steel Company]

On the subject of being clear....

 

Who is in front of me in range and LOS? 

 

MR.

 

 

Based on the map, with out any updates,  I'd say A.T., he's in direct LoS for you 23 spaces (115m) away... so sorry, no half range shenanigans for you... still strong point would be in effect...

 

Also, don't forget to take that WP test to make sure that you don't lose Overwatch thanks to the flying box that crashed into your cover...

Edited March 27, 2018 by Steel Company

[Mazer Rackham]

I thought you, Solastion and Varvost were just outside the door?

 

Do I still have both hands working?

 

Cadence is dropped yes?  I failed the Toughness test.

 

MR.