What would you want in future Primaris expansions?

[Dracos]

A captain that can deep strike. I thought the Phobos captain could but he can only set up outside of 9, I would greatly enjoy the ability to deep strike a captain with my inceptors.

 

Shrike and Raven Guard for the win ;)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

When it’s used to describe reavers because they have ammo pouches it makes people sound like idiots. If you think the models is trying hard because they actually have more ammo than what’s in the weapon, you have no understanding of combat to begin with. If your using the term in a non derogatory sense, I apologize, I wouldn’t expect to see it used in that way.

 

Back on topic, I wouldn’t expect the bikers to have the additional pouches and such, unless they also wear Phobos armor, but that doesn’t exactly make sense or seem needed.

 

A captain that can deep strike. I thought the Phobos captain could but he can only set up outside of 9, I would greatly enjoy the ability to deep strike a captain with my inceptors.

Think you mean Infiltrators not Reivers.

[War Angel]

Sure, them too. Read the rules for the Phobos LT, if you make him a reiver LT he loses his grav ability and can’t deepstrike with them!

[Dracos]

Yeah the Phobos Lt rules are crap Edited May 17, 2020 by Dracos

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don’t expect a Lt to do much more than grant his reroll 1s to wound aura so it’s not a big deal to me... Primaris for the additional wound.

[Guest Triszin]

Reivers to be given chapter specific upgrade packs.

 

To make them worth the elite slot.

 

Ex.

Templars, storm shields, great swords

 

Fists, powerfusts, grenade launchers

 

 

Salamanders, hammers, fire

 

Wolves frost weapons pistols

[Ishagu]

Reivers need an upgrade, I agree.

 

-The Carbine should be Assault 3

-The Blades should be +1 Str and AP -1

[Dracos]

Reivers need an upgrade, I agree.

 

-The Carbine should be Assault 3

-The Blades should be +1 Str and AP -1 , +1 Attack

 

-Chainswords +1 Str , +1 Attack

 

Fixed for our Firstborn Brothers ;)

[War Angel]

 

 

Reivers need an upgrade, I agree.

 

-The Carbine should be Assault 3

-The Blades should be +1 Str and AP -1 , +1 Attack

 

-Chainswords +1 Str , +1 Attack

Fixed for our Firstborn Brothers ;)

Read the title.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Lol you got em Angel.

[RikuEru]

As per the other topic, a suggestion:

 

Anyone who has built a Repulsor Tank and has built a Land Raider in the past can tell you how eerily similiar some of the plates and details are.

You can really see where the Design Team/Belisarius Cawl took parts of the regular Land Raider (STC file) and built upon them.

I expect in the Long Run we COULD see an Uparmored Version, no turret, but with larger transport capacity, side-weapons - and the old familiar front hatch to make it a Primaris Land Raider.

 

...and I almost tempted to try converting one.

 

For now I will resort to converting my own Primaris Units.

I have 3 Squads with Wulfen Load-Outs. The ones with Axes or Frost Claws are in Phobos Armour. With them being fully armoured, they will look like Primaris Wolf Guards.

 

I am converting a counts-as 5 man Wolf Guard Jump Pack Unit from the Infiltrators in the Saga of the Beast Box. Combi-Plasmas and Energy Swords, brcause why the heck not...

The other 5 I made into Elite/WG Reivers - with Chainswords and Carbines. And instead of the Grenade Packs on the Chest, they got Wulfen Grenade Launchers. (Remember the Rumour of Ragnar being joined by a new Primaris Unit with Backpack-mounted weapons? And we all said "Nah, rumorsource probably saw Wulfen and didn't know what they were." Like that.)

[Dracos]

 

 

Reivers need an upgrade, I agree.

 

-The Carbine should be Assault 3

-The Blades should be +1 Str and AP -1 , +1 Attack

 

-Chainswords +1 Str , +1 Attack

Fixed for our Firstborn Brothers

Read the title.

 

 

Indeed, and what I would like for the future Primaris expansions is a clearer separation of units and equipment from the Firstborn so each Faction actually played differently on the tabletop. For each to be separate, different but equal and still be able to call themselves Astartes. Does it seem like I've read the Title now?

[Marshal Reinhard]

As someone who doesn't care to mix older marines with Primaris marines, I prefer that the rules for the latter don't actually take those of the former into account. Of course if you do, your outlook will be different.

 

-The Carbine should be Assault 3

I actually like that the auto bolt rifle was made distinguisable from the carbine, this change would undo that, so not something I'd prefer to see. Is there no better way to buff the appeal of rivers than make them as shooty?

[War Angel]

 

 

 

Reivers need an upgrade, I agree.

-The Carbine should be Assault 3

-The Blades should be +1 Str and AP -1 , +1 Attack

-Chainswords +1 Str , +1 Attack

 

Fixed for our Firstborn Brothers ;)

Read the title.

 

Indeed, and what I would like for the future Primaris expansions is a clearer separation of units and equipment from the Firstborn so each Faction actually played differently on the tabletop. For each to be separate, different but equal and still be able to call themselves Astartes. Does it seem like I've read the Title now?

They currently are different. But are you buffing assault marines or are you buffing everything with your proposed change? Imperial guard use chainswords as well, and even Primaris Marines.

[Hymnblade]

As per the other topic, a suggestion:

 

Anyone who has built a Repulsor Tank and has built a Land Raider in the past can tell you how eerily similiar some of the plates and details are.

You can really see where the Design Team/Belisarius Cawl took parts of the regular Land Raider (STC file) and built upon them.

I expect in the Long Run we COULD see an Uparmored Version, no turret, but with larger transport capacity, side-weapons - and the old familiar front hatch to make it a Primaris Land Raider.

...and I almost tempted to try converting one.

Have you seen this conversion/comparison from Reddit?

This isn't an extensive conversion, it's literally just a Repulsor without the turret, and with weapon hardpoints shuffled around. I think it's fair to say that the Repulsor isn't just "similar to" the Land Raider, it's a Land Raider chassis with grav-plates and a turret, in the same way that the Predator is a Rhino variant. (And yeah, a Repulsor Crusader with hurricane bolt rifle sponsons, capacity for a full squad of Aggressors and a character, and the Assault Vehicle rule would be amazing.)

Edited May 20, 2020 by Hymnblade

[Spaced Hulk]

As someone who doesn't care to mix older marines with Primaris marines, I prefer that the rules for the latter don't actually take those of the former into account. Of course if you do, your outlook will be different.

 

-The Carbine should be Assault 3

I actually like that the auto bolt rifle was made distinguisable from the carbine, this change would undo that, so not something I'd prefer to see. Is there no better way to buff the appeal of rivers than make them as shooty?

Instead of assault 3 on the carbine, a -1 AP on both the carbine and combat blades could provide Reivers with a niche compared to similarly armed units, and help to justify their Elite status. Fluffwise, the blades could be monomolecular edged, while the carbine fires the same calibre bolt shells as their pistols.

 

I also think allowing Reiver Sergeants to have weapon upgrades (power weapons/fist, lightning claws, plasma pistol) could greatly increase the unit's utility.

 

Obviously GW no longer includes options that aren't represented in the model kits. Perhaps in 9th Edition they could release special Sergeant models (like Jovan) instead of Lieutenants, as a way of opening up new options.

[Gederas]

Instead of assault 3 on the carbine, a -1 AP on both the carbine and combat blades could provide Reivers with a niche compared to similarly armed units, and help to justify their Elite status. Fluffwise, the blades could be monomolecular edged, while the carbine fires the same calibre bolt shells as their pistols.

 

I also think allowing Reiver Sergeants to have weapon upgrades (power weapons/fist, lightning claws, plasma pistol) could greatly increase the unit's utility.

 

Obviously GW no longer includes options that aren't represented in the model kits. Perhaps in 9th Edition they could release special Sergeant models (like Jovan) instead of Lieutenants, as a way of opening up new options.

The knives Reivers carry, per Dark Imperium, ARE power weapons. Them not having any native AP makes no sense because of that. Hell, they could have the same AP-1 of Misericordia Custodes have, seeing as how they're functionally identical otherwise.

 

[jaxom]

 

The knives Reivers carry, per Dark Imperium, ARE power weapons. Them not having any native AP makes no sense because of that. Hell, they could have the same AP-1 of Misericordia Custodes have, seeing as how they're functionally identical otherwise.

And per the codex and the models they don't have power weapons. The codex calls them combat knives, both in the unit description and the unit data slate, and the models lack any of the previously used identifiers for power weapons. That's not to say Reivers with power weapons wouldn't be nice, but this is a case of a Black Library book not agreeing with the primary source of what the unit is supposed have/do.

 

I think any discussion of Reivers is lacking without acknowledging that the designer's 8th edition rule expectations have not played out as they were expecting (the why is a completely separate conversation). The morale phase is too binary from turn to turn - a unit either doesn't have much to worry about or it's screwed anyway. Being Terror Troops has very little weight in choosing a unit, but is a core part of Reiver unit identity. Similarly, shock grenades make a lot of sense for the unit, but don't see use because of the way deepstrike/inflitrate, survivability, and charge ranges ended up working out in most games.

 

Here's what I'd like for Reivers that doesn't go against the concept and doesn't require a physical kit update. Bolt Carbines and Heavy Bolt Pistols fired by Reivers use Shock Rounds. Something along the lines of "units which take casualties have -1 to hit rolls for attacks and cannot fire Overwatch." Terror Troops becomes identical to Psian Jackals when within 3". This creates what I think would be a decent trade off on weapons: do you go for more shooting to proc the debuff (probably the more reliable option) or do you go for more close combat attacks to maximize the double casualties?

[Dracos]

Combine ^this^ with the -1ap for the combat blades and I think you really start to get a tabletop result that makes them a choice to consider. GW has done better than ever at creating honest options in units and weapons, Reivers not so much. Even at point or two increase I think this would make them start showing up in more list.

[Spinsanity]

Obviously GW no longer includes options that aren't represented in the model kits. Perhaps in 9th Edition they could release special Sergeant models (like Jovan) instead of Lieutenants, as a way of opening up new options.

Since this isn't true for Intercessor Sergeants, I don't see why their options couldn't be carried over onto other squads too... the chapter kits arms would fit Reivers just as well as they do the Intercessors

[Daynga-Zone]

For Reivers I think the mentioned -1 AP would be nice, but still wouldn’t make them a super attractive option. Based on the fluff from Dark Imperium they were all about striking and then moving without being hit so maybe they could receive a rule like the instigator bolt carbine does for eliminator sergeants where after firing over watch they’re able to move.

 

This lets them be a mobile forward force in front of your main lines that is hard to pin down and protects your gun line without necessarily being destroyed themselves. I feel like that would be both fluffy and fill a niche. Points need to be adjusted up in that case but at least the unit would be useful.

 

Things I would like to see:

 

A stratagem or rule allowing you to primarify units. Maybe as a wargear option you can have your firstborns cross the rubicon for x points and they gain a wound and an attack. Allows people to keep using their firstborns competitively and leads to kitbashers buying both kits so they can make their sweet primaris versions of other units.

 

A primaris flyer. I really like flyers, especially the heavy hitting fighter types. Would love to see a primaris fighter/flyer that can act as strong anti tank or just has a ton of guns. Maybe something like the Xiphon or storm fang with a giant long range plasma gun as the main weapon and something different like a bunch twin linked multi lasers in the wings.

 

Primaris bikers. I’m not a huge fan of bikes personally but they’re due to happen and white scars fans need their iconic units. Wish it was grav or jet bikes with power lances. I’d be buying three units super quick.

 

Primaris breachers. I think that’s a great idea that’s been tossed around. Some kind of shield and shotgun type weapon would be interesting.

 

More HQ choices in Gravis armor. My Techmarine is too squishy he needs some sweet Armour so snipers can’t potshot my repairs/buffs so easily.

 

Inceptor captains/HQs need some deep strikable primaris HQs and an inceptor style captain would be amazing being able to keep up with mobile units and having excellent weapons to make use of his ballistic skill.

[Volt]

If you want to make reivers not suck, the minimum would be handing out vengeance rounds with AP-2 to them, otherwise they'd need an overhaul with a melee weapon that isn't garbage. Such as giving them all the option to take power weapons or slapping combi bolters on them.

[Dracos]

I like how we have focused a lot on wanting Reivers to be an attractive option. By that I mean not have an effective role not already covered by Intercessors or the other Phobos infantry. I want to build and use Reivers but they don't do anything other units don't do better, except be cheap.

 

 

On a side note: I built, painted and traded away 15 Hellblasters when I first started back in 40k. I thought they were cool looking (Primaris) and had the wickedest gun. They cost so much and die as easy as any Marine. Like the Reivers, I've totally taken themout of my thought process when I build an army list, and I play Raven Guard rules so at least they could hit once after a deep strike. Is there anyway to make these guys worth their points?

 

Edit: Anything I'd want Hellblasters for I imagine Las-fusil Eliminators would be better?

Edited May 23, 2020 by Dracos

[War Angel]

So this is a little off topic, but I think hellblasters suffer greatly from the terrain issue. A lot of GW’s terrain doesn’t block line of sight, and a lot of stores don’t use enough terrain variety on their tables. When you fix this issue, it’s possible to use hellblasters to better effect by getting shots off while “pieing” off the table. Do this by only exposing yourself to the models you intend to shoot. They SHOULD be dead, and that will reduce the amount of shots coming back at you. You can also use an Incurser (the transport? I think?) to shield them with the 4++ save, behind terrain, drive in close and rapid fire. And a third option is to maybe use some raven guard deepstrike tactic? Idk what you guys do. Finnaly (and I’m first so this works well for me) having a lot of intercessors blow Chunks out of the enemy troops helps them to forget who the real threat is. Inceptors dropping in to rip something up also helps. You know, threat overload. I guess they could be a bit alpha strike at times

 

Are las fusel exterminators better? Well, in some ways yes, others no. The las fusels cost 3 points more per model, and while the gun is stronger, it’s a single shot heavy weapon. Really which you use will come down to flavor, what the rest of your army is doing, and how many points do you have (exterminators may cost more per model but are a smaller unit)

 

Personally I think the heavy plasma incinerator does need an adjustment. I do not think the additional 6 inch range and strength are worth the fact that you are at -1 to hit if you move, and cap out at 1 shot per weapon. AND it cost 2 points more per model. It should also do an extra damage, (then I won’t need to over charge it to get 1 hit kills on Primaris, take advantage of that additional strength. Furthermore, the assault variant of the weapon should be at 3 shots, matching the auto bolt rifle. It’s range is 24 and it maxes it’s strength at 7.... my opinion though.

 

A great thing about the Primaris line is we don’t have multiple units doing the same thing at different point cost’s at the cost of effectiveness. With the old line this leads to units having no purpose in a list, and being left on the shelf. Reivers weren’t given a great place in the army, possibly because of when they were released. Right now they are just a cheap swap strike unit that has a benefit to being up close. But it can be a really tricky fish to get the enemy to fail a moral check. You have to kill a few models but not all, and they have to not use the insane bravery strategem. They’re not the only deepstrike unit, and it’s reasonable to assume there will be another, and if we ever do get a proper close combat unit, that’s one less thing they do. I like to think that GW has an idea of what they’re doing, and that it will make more sense when we can see the whole picture. Maybe reivers are the deep strike CC Phobos unit, were the benefit to them is that they can be targeted by Phobos abilities/ spells?

[Gederas]

So.... About the "melee primaris thing" :lol:

 

More of the Assault Intercessor Squad:

 

New Unit:

 

Colour image of the above:

(CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM)

 

New character:

 

And most importantly, above all.... BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKES:

Edited May 23, 2020 by Gederas