General Strike Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 They seem to hate set damage, that is my only reason for fearing they will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMarsh Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 That 3 damage is what makes the Helverin worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Well my group seems to want to move towards 1750 point matches, which I'm fine with but that does limit things a bit. I had planned to use a Castellan, a preceptor and the rest would be a mix of the armiger chassis. Now it seems that list would only net me 3cp for being battleforged, which honestly feels a bit ridiculous. Fortunately the gallant might have walked out of this codex as an unlikely hero, but still. I really wish they hadn't invented a CP system that merely punishes pure IK lists. Or at least give the lance 5CP, since it's impossible to fit two of those at 2k (3x gallants are 1062points) Also, I understand that it's a good problem to have, but man do we have some good warlord traits and stratagems. I'm thinking a Castellan with adamantium knight as a trait and with the Cawl's Wrath relic. Then a Gallant with Knight Seneschal warlord trait and The Paragon Gauntlet relic. By the way, is there no relic version of the Las Impulsor? The CP thing... it's so stupid. I dunno, I don't like being too black and white usually as it risks hyperbole and riding roughshod over some of the minutia, but the CP restrictions are just wrong. A pure Knight list will at best have 6 CP. You'll lose three of that before you even start to play by choosing the essentially mandatory Exalted Court stratagem. That leaves you 3 to play with. Given how expensive many actually are, you'll get one big play per game. Fight Dark Eldar and 80% of the time you won't get that either. We can make all the arguments under the sun about needing to factor in CP farm detachments, but actually I'm not sure that should be relevant. If you are going to make a faction, that faction should be capable of standing on it's own in the areas given to it. If we argue that the CP restrictions are because of potential abuse via guard battalions and the like, again Knights aren't where you adjust this - you do it to Guard when taken as allies. It's a fun Codex. There's much there to like. But there's also some horrible inconsistencies and an astonishing lack of thought on display in many areas. Given the costs in time and money involved in the hobby so often, I can't help but think that actually, we deserve better than some of the more amateur decisions on display in rules consistency and thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 The cp thing is really my only complaint. We could at most have 15 CP, but that was 5 detachments. Guard can have like 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 There's stuff like the Shrine too. So, it's cheap which is nice, but we really have to reach to envisage a situation where it's worth us giving up a turns worth of offensive capability to gain one of those benefits. Especially in a low model count army. Then, look at some of the traits etc: House Krast - re-roll all failed hit rolls in the fights phase (great!) House Krast Warlord trait - Reroll hit rolls of 1 ... Say what now?... Mr Cruddace, did you forget what you gave them as a tradition, or..? I mean, yes, it applies to shooting too in this case, but... so what? If I'm fielding a Krast detachment it's a safe bet I'm really really melee focused... Devastating Reach is a cause of some hilarity too. So it's 1CP, cheap, but 1CP really counts when you have as few as we do. To my mind, Strat's represent those moments when you perform a piece of tactical brilliance, one that can potentially change the course of the game... Here we have a Knight Scion realising his arm is a chainsaw, and that he can poke it at people standing at eye level... Really? Really? C'mon, this should be baked in to any Knight with a dedicated melee weapon arm, it shouldn't need a CP to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 My pet peeve is still the shrine. Perhaps not the most devestatingly glaring oversight and perhaps some legitimate uses can be found for it (charging gallants or something), but the shooting benefit actively hurting you except in very specific circumstances is ... I was actually looking forward to painting one too, might still, because it seems cheap. Been toying with the idea of making some "house militia" with some tempestus scions (their armor match the look pretty well) and doing so should be relatively lore friendly?... treat them more like a police/peace keeper force rather than some military arm of the house? The whole CP climate makes it seem like it might not be bad idea from gaming perspective either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiñaColada Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 By the way, do we know how many points the multi-laser is on the preceptor? It's 10 points in the Astra militarum codex, but they only pay 8 points for a heavy bolter instead of 10 because of poor BS. So maybe 12? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I dove into Tempestus for the same reason. They look great next to knights when they're in the house colors. Not as cheap and plentiful as a regular guard battalion but more flavorful and still gets you the 5CP. The hard part for me is where to balance out the points for the Dominus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Man, I'm trying to be fiscal with my knight purchases cause Im planning to go all in on AoS2. Renegade is great, but I don't NEED the two knights, and I WANT the Castellan and Canis Rex. I just see the deal in Renegade, plus I bought my crusader and Warden used, so with Renegade I could magentize and have two of any knight, and wait to buy Canis and the Castellan. Edit: I found renegade third party for the price of a knight, got the dice and codex with it for the retail price of renegade, that made the decision for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I dove into Tempestus for the same reason. They look great next to knights when they're in the house colors. Not as cheap and plentiful as a regular guard battalion but more flavorful and still gets you the 5CP. The hard part for me is where to balance out the points for the Dominus. It's also easier to keep them alive for mid game objective grabbing since they have deepstrike. I bought scions specifically to pair with my knights. Just a matter of how many points will be left over to give them upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I think with the points reductions I may be able to bring along some Skitarii Vanguard and some Tech support to my 1k list. However I'm using a Styrix who is what, now pretty overcosted? I'm not sure. Can you make the Forge World Knights into Freeblades? Or is Freeblade a new profile that needs Dex weapons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluflash Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I feel like the Stryx is still a viable choice. At 500 points with a rad cleanser, it's cheaper than a dominus class, comes with a 4++ and a 5++ in the fight phase (improvable for 1cp) and still puts out a reasonable amount of dakka at medium range. My fear is that FW will update the points and raise the cost due to the 4++. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I feel like the Stryx is still a viable choice. At 500 points with a rad cleanser, it's cheaper than a dominus class, comes with a 4++ and a 5++ in the fight phase (improvable for 1cp) and still puts out a reasonable amount of dakka at medium range. My fear is that FW will update the points and raise the cost due to the 4++. I would hope not. At 500 points, the Styrix is actually on the expensive side for a Knight now. If it were increased any further, I don't think it'd be worth fielding any more. It's a great little unit at what it does (which is basically messing with elite troops that try and get cover saves), but it's no general solution. I think a slight price drop would be reasonable, and probably getting to use it's claw for that Death Grip strat would be pretty fair also - it is basically a gauntlet after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 That 3 damage is what makes the Helverin worthwhile. IMO all the Armigers went up a massive level just from the huge points breaks. They're now more comparable to a faster Contemptor Dreadnought, and the Helverins in particular bring immense utility for their cost. I'm not saying they'll be breaking any metas or stomping any top tables, but they're immensely more useful just for being more affordable, notwithstanding the huge buffs from Household rules, Strategems et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Yeah, as much as I want a Castellan I really think the best plan for me is to pick up Renegade or Preceptor and a box or two of Helverins first. The Armigers look amazing now - before they couldn't perform well enough to justify the points. Now they're crazy cheap by comparison AND they perform better. The more I compare them to other units the more I like them. I could easily see fielding them over knights as allies for my AdMech, assuming I don't want to run pure knights (which I doubt, even without the codex I've been more and more interested in Knights and less interested in AdMech without Knights). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I feel like the Stryx is still a viable choice. At 500 points with a rad cleanser, it's cheaper than a dominus class, comes with a 4++ and a 5++ in the fight phase (improvable for 1cp) and still puts out a reasonable amount of dakka at medium range. My fear is that FW will update the points and raise the cost due to the 4++. I would hope not. At 500 points, the Styrix is actually on the expensive side for a Knight now. If it were increased any further, I don't think it'd be worth fielding any more. It's a great little unit at what it does (which is basically messing with elite troops that try and get cover saves), but it's no general solution. I think a slight price drop would be reasonable, and probably getting to use it's claw for that Death Grip strat would be pretty fair also - it is basically a gauntlet after all. Was thinking this earlier about the Deathgrip, I mean: 1) Grab enemy in your giant crane claw 2) Turn on Rad Cleanser 3) ???? 4) PROFIT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmseifer Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I'm planning on having a force with a Castellan and 2 armigers along with my guard force. If I understand correctly there's no way to get house traits unless I bring 3 big knights? Is there anything else I'm losing out on with my detachment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 You get house traits. You just get 0cp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I also think the Styrix is still good. You can match a 4++/5++ via warlord trait and relics for free in a limited capacity while the Styrix gets them via points. Balances out in my opinion. Since regular knights were overcosted they made the Styrix better inadvertently. I'd still pay full price for the Stupid now that it has access to Households, strats, and a few relics. Where the Dominus comes into play vs it is the sheer Volume of shooting. That extra 100 points is in raw shooting output via the shoulder weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiñaColada Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Someone over on Dakkadakka posted this, not sure about the original source since he posted it in quotes. Probably Facebook.. So the preceptor is coming out later.. I'm wondering if they won't release a standalone warglaives box either for a while, not that I need more but sucks for the people who don't want to buy that box solely for the mini knights. "You’ll have to wait a wee bit longer for the last new release to go alongside the new codex. The valiant Freeblade Sir Hekhtur, and his Knight Preceptor steed Canis Rex, will be available later in the year as part of a dual kit that also builds the Knight Preceptor (not to mention every other variant of Questoris-class Knight). We showed off Sir Hekhtur last week (see here for more details about him), and you’ll get his full rules in the codex. We’ll be letting you know when he’s approaching (not that you’ll miss him in his ground-shaking Knight), so keep a close eye on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page for more news." EDIT: Facebook page confirms armiger standalone release for next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Warglaives are on pre-release next week, no canis though. Glad I've got my canis/preceptor/gallant conversion on the go now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Wait what? Canis Rex is not up for next week? That is genuinely surprising EDIT: "The valiant Freeblade Sir Hekhtur, and his Knight Preceptor steed Canis Rex, will be available later in the year as part of a dual kit that also builds the Knight Preceptor (not to mention every other variant of Questoris-class Knight)." So that means he's going have 5 sprues then, since he needs the full Warden sprue for that to be a true statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Wait what? Canis Rex is not up for next week? That is genuinely surprising EDIT: "The valiant Freeblade Sir Hekhtur, and his Knight Preceptor steed Canis Rex, will be available later in the year as part of a dual kit that also builds the Knight Preceptor (not to mention every other variant of Questoris-class Knight)." So that means he's going have 5 sprues then, since he needs the full Warden sprue for that to be a true statement Knights do weirrrrrrrd things to GW's profits. They're really impactful items historically (great for us, and the reason why we above others have actually got new kits...), I'm guessing they're deliberately spreading out the releases more than normal to take advantage of this effect (and possible to allow our wallets to recharge between waves). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 He's going to be expensive... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 At the same time i can't see him being pushed too much above the castellan valiant kits in terms of pricing... but find it hard to believe yet another sprue will just be an additional +5 quid... it does make sense from a marketing standpoint not to have him compete with renegade, so the move to wait isn't too weird. Just really inconvenient - I really want that swag pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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