Emperors Children The Judgment on Kadeth - Dr. Ruminahui's Emperor's Children

[TrawlingCleaner]

1) Short claws, there's something a bit creepy about having long legs but short grasping hands/claws? The long claws would definitely work too!

2) Smooth with closed Hatch. For me, there's already enough spikey bits and limbs etc, I think more could make it look too busy?

3) Small spike legs gives it a bit more varience which I like a lot

 

Excellent work Dr!

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Thanks Tallarn Commander, Brother Nathan and Trawling Cleaner - glad you like my work so far!

 

Brother Nathan, I agree the ground displacement issue would be a huge issue for the front claw, but realistically even the feet on the armored legs are way too small to keep the thing from sinking into the ground - but realism only takes you so far when one wants a spider tank. 

 

Interestingly, on my informal pole in the chaos forums and my WIP thread, long crushing claw just edged out short with the same for shield versus spike leg (both 4-3) while tentacles were the run away favorite versus hatch (6-2).

 

So, based on the above I thought to combine the tentacles with the side hatch (having it partially open with the tentacles coming out the gap) only to find that I have no idea where the hatches were.  So instead, I glued on some plates from the chaos vehicle accessory sprue and will put tentacles elsewhere on the model, and I may well do the other side with no hatch and emerging tentacles.

 

 

As shown above, rather than make up my mind on the arm/leg questions (though I'm inclined to side with the majorities for both), I built the smoke stacks instead.

 

Here are some close ups:

 

 

The one on the very back is because I had a gap from how the gestation sacks joined together and decided to fill it this way.

 

Though you can't really see it, the outermost stacks on either side have little faces cut into them kind of like the mauler/forge fiend does - I'm thinking of building them up (again like the fiend does) with greenstuff to make them more visible.

Edited April 8 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Sorry for the delay on updating, but I've been plugging away on it steadily without really anything significant enough to post until this weekend, when a bunch of things all seemed to come together.

 

The bulk of the work was in greenstuffing the claw - definitely a learning process, as I haven't really done much of the sort and had the problem of squashing the work I had just done, as well as having the greenstuff loose its stickness before I got it in place making me have to mix more.  The cat certainly didn't help in that regard, wanting me to take breaks to feed or play with her while I was in the midst of sculpting.

 

Anyway, here is the finished claw attached to the model.

 

 

I took the advice from my poll to do the extended version and took the advantage to put in the the wheeled "hinge" between the two pieces, which added a technological element with some cabling as well on the top.  Other than that, it was all trim and filing in of the more tyranid details - hopefully it will look a bit neater when painted.

 

I also went by the poll and replaced the spike front leg with a shielded one - having the claw in place simply confirmed the spike was just too small and made the whole model look too front heavy,  This allowed me to make a different front shield, which I decided to do in a chaos star - I think I'll put a slanneshi symbol on the other side when I get to it.  I'm really happy with how that turned out.  Here is it and a picture of the front, showing that there is enough clearance for the underslung flamer option.  You can also see the wires that I have going through the model to which I have pinned the legs - those will be cut done and have the left legs glued to them as well when I finish that side of the model.

 

 

And here it is from the side with all the right legs in place.  As you will also see, I decided to build a mouth out of the flat portion of the flesh sack on the back, and am really happy how that turned out.  You can also see the greenstuff I did to build up the face on the smokestack some, as well as the cabling I added to the back leg to meld the organic and mechancal elements some.

 

 

The one thing I'm not as happy with is that I tried greenstuffing the tongue to make it look less like just a bit of wire.

 

 

So, any suggestions on what to to with the tongue?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Taken a break from my defiler this past week to get models ready for Call to Arms 2024 (as I don't think I'll have my defiler build done in time).

 

First, I built the demon prince model I've partially built for a year.  Magnetized the right hand weapons incase they ever become seperate options again.

 

 

I got an airbrush last Christmas, which I think will be quite helpful in getting my old metal raptors how I want them looking - I want them metallic purple, but using the florescent purple I've used throughout my army.  Never used an airbrush before, so it will be a journey for me.  I had painted up a unit of 8 in my regular army colour (so, non-metallic purple) but never been entirely happy with them.

 

So I built all (well, almost I have 2 more that don't really fit anywhere) of my old metal raptors - I had bought 16 or so back when I first contemplated a jump pack themed night lords army back in 3.5, then picked up another 10 or so over the years through various purchases and trades.   Due to the way I acquired them, I didn't have jump pack for all of them, so replaced the missing ones with the packs from the newer raptors kit (they fit well enough with a little trimming to the area where they attach to the torso).

 

So, I built 3 squads of 5 - 2 with 2x plasma, and 1 with 2x melta.  All the champions have plasma pistols and power fists.  Turns out I only have 4 or 5 of each special weapon, so with no interest in giving them flamers, that's basically the loadout I had to give them.  My painted squad is currently one melta and one flamer, but I'll be swapping the flamer for another melta after I finish these guys.

 

 

I also built 4 plasma pistols to swap out with special weapons in squads should I want to field them that way.  One of them is on a model from my painted squad.

 

 

Here's a picture of just the champions - including the one from my painted squad, who I had previously magnetized, so he's the only one with the full range of weapon options.  I'm happy that although they are all the same base models, I was able to give them each of different power fist (and I am fielding the original lightning claws as fists now, as look look more like fists than they do the other accursed weapons) and slightly different poses.  The ones whose flying "stands" (the smoke/flames coming out of their foot) broke have gotten tactical terrain - I'm pretty happy how I was able to keep their height relatively consitent between the models. 

 

 

And here are all 4 of the raptors that have the newer jump packs - I actually really like the look.

 

 

Finally, despite them being massively top heavy, I was able to keep them relatively stable by giving the larger modern base size with a metal washer glued to the bottom,  This involved trimming down the slot at the bottom of the models to fit inside the inner hole of the washer, cutting a matching slot in the base to match, then putting greenstuff on the bottom to keep them at the desired angle and to help keep the model attached to the base.  Here is what the bottom of their bases looks like.

 

 

If I like my new paint job, I intend to strip my painted squad and do them to match.  As a note, since it current has 8 models, that gives enough extras to swap out 2 of the champions and field 2 squads of 10.  That said, not sure I'd ever want to field 20 raptors.

[Volgon]

Excited to see the Raptors painted up! I am really not a fan of the "new" sculpts (they look poorly proportioned and goofy to me).

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Thanks, @Volgon - I don't really mind the plastic raptor sculpts, but the old metal ones certainly have a much better sense of movement to them - they actually look like they are zipping a flying around, rather than doing this wierd flailing run.

 

But asides from Volgon, I know metal raptors aren't why you are here - you want more crab tank wierdness.  And I have just what you ordered!

 

@Bonehead in the heretic guard forum gave me some good suggestions about the tongue in that it needs to be wider, which got me thinking about the best way to get that effect - I decided on using a plastic twist tie from electronics, which should be about the right breadth (broadness?).  I went to the bag in the kitchen drawer where my wife keeps such things and found a couple of promissing candidates - I may even glue them together if I want it to be thicker.  It won't be "wide" coming out of the mouth, though, as I'll need to orient the "width" going up and down instead to fit through the teeth.  Still, I think it might well work.

 

I have some other ideas in my head that might work - one of them if going for a more technological look and using guitar string, though I'm not sure if it will be flexible enough.  Anyway, I'll play around with it in the future.

 

While I'm working that over in my head, I've started on the other side and I'm eager to get it to the stage where it is a free-standing model.

 

Here is the poor tortured side skirt with all the mangling done to it to allow the limbs to protrude.

 

 

Here it is on the model (not glued yet, that will happen after I attach the legs), with the sponson, side hatch and escaping tentacle (an extra I didn't use from the Chaos Possesseds kit).  So, for those who voted in favour of side tentacles, here you go!  Unlike on the other side, with all the bending I couldn't get the sponson on quite straight, but luckily given the nature of the model that doesn't really matter. 

 

 

Next step is finishing the legs and claw arm - here are the 3 legs with their shields cut - next up is heating the shields to curve them slightly, and cutting and gluing on the trim.

 

Edited May 13 by Dr_Ruminahui

[TrawlingCleaner]

Great work all round Dr! I'm a big fan of the old Raptor sculpts and you've kept them in great knick too!

Looking forward to seeing the Defiler

[Volgon]

That tank certain looks like it's been through the grinder! Really creative, don't think it's something I've seen before.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Thanks, @TrawlingCleaner and @Volgon.

 

Long weekend here, thanks to Queen Victoria, so posting on a Tuesday this week.  This past weekend was leg day at the deflier gym:

 

 

Haven't tested whether it will stand properly without the box in support - that moment of truth will be tonight.  The back 2 leg shields are just like the other side, the front one has a slanneshi symbol - isn't quite as eye catching as the chaos star on the other side, but slanneshi symbols are hard, especially in the weird shaped space I had.

 

So, only one major structural element left, that being the left claw.  Think I can bang that out in the coming week which puts me in the home stretch - asides from building the flail, magnetizing the combi-bolter/weapon and maybe doing some work on the left sponson heavy bolter, its all detail work from there.

[ShotgunFacelift]

Its going to be like a baby deer standing for the first time......

 

be sure to get video of its first steps ;)

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Didn't get a video, but I did get a picture - its stands!  It seems to be pretty stable too, so any wobbly fawn-ness is behind it. 

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Got the second arm on, but not without dislodging the first - so if its in a slightly different position, that's why.  It looks pretty much like I hoped it would - the claw arms are a little weedy and thin, but more in a way that looks unnatural than one that makes it look like it wouldn't work, so I'm fine with that.

 

 

So, that's the end of the structural elements.  Now its all detailing, other than a touch more work involving the top hatch options, the left side heavy bolter option, and the construction of the flail weapon option.

 

In terms of detailing, I see myself faced with 2 major choices for which I would love your feedback:

 

1.   What do I do for a face?  My thought was to put one on the front right where the driver's port is (its hidden in the above picture behind the claw).  The question is what to put there.  Some options are:

 

           a) put one of the flat plates with faces on them from the chaos rhino kit.  Here are the options:

 

 

And here are pictures of them in place (note, each of these will be actually mounted a bit higher, as I will be cutting off the hinges for the hatch off the russ which will allow me to cover that area with the face plate):

 

- i) the melty face:

 

 

- ii) the demon face:

 

 

b)  a bunch of eyes

c)  another mouth; or

d) my own scratch built face - suggestions as to what it might look like appreciated.

 

Personally, I'm inclined to go the easy option of the demon face plate, which has a similar visual aesthetic to the original defiler, so creates a nice visual link there.  That said, it might not be the best fit with the rest of the model.

 

2)  What to do with the spaces between the outer and inner hull?  The big decision there is whether to put on the track guards on the top - here is a rough picture of what that might look like, though it wouldn't stick off the back like that but would instead be cut down to fit the size.  As well, I would model some spikes breaking through them like I did the legs through the hull.

 

 

And here is an older picture without it - I had taken a newer one, but it looks like I didn't upload it.

 

 

Note, this is an option where I could do different things on different sides.

 

Where there are no track covers, I intend to build up some stringy flesh connecting the mechanical elements and maybe put some eyes here and there poking up over the edge of the hull.  On the front, probably some eyes clusters on one side, and spikes on the other.  On the bottom, its going to be less detailed with just some lumpy flesh and a couple of cables hanging down.

 

So, poll time:

 

1.  What should I do for a face on the front area beside the front sponson?  Options include:

            a) i) the melty face plate

               ii) the demon face plate

            b) an eye (either a single big one like this guy or a cluster like elsewhere on the model)

            c) another mouth; or

            d) a scratchbuilt face - if this is your vote, please give suggestions as to what it might be like.

 

2. Trackguard or no trackguard?  Options:

           a) trackguards.

           b) no trackguards

           c) a trackguard on one side, but not another.

 

3.  Other suggestions you might have as to what to do with the space between the outer and inner hull (so, between the track wheels), particularly for the front of the model.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Excellent work Dr, it's really coming together!

 

1) Melty Face Plate

There's something about the face with the weedy graspy claws that makes it feel really creepy. Like it could make a noise or screetch that would make you hesitate for a second which then proceeds to slaughter your unit, kind of vibe? Definitely just my taste though

 

2) Track guard on one side

Kinda gives it a some more asymmetry but also lets you move the turret and not get the havoc launcher stuck on the plate. At least from the angle of the photo it looks like the launcher would get stuck on a track behind it if you wanted to swivel it

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Thanks for the suggestions, @TrawlingCleaner they were very useful.  Hadn't thought of the clearance issue with the havoc, but it certainly would have been a problem.  Still is pretty tight - admittedly turret traverse isn't something I gave much thought to in this build. 

 

This one is going to be pretty picture heavy, as there are a lot of details I'm trying to show - you've been warned.

 

Finished the bulk of greenstuffing on the hull - really, the only thing that is left in that regard is the front.  After that, just have the flail and one of the side heavy bolters and the beast is done.

 

Before I did the actual detail work, I glued some paperclips to act as a scaffolding for the greenstuff on the top - I don't want it to break off and fall into the model where it couldn't be retrieved, which I was worried of happening as its connection points to the model is otherwise only as much as I can smoosh it against the two hulls.

 

 

Decided to go with trackguard on one side (with a tiny bit on the front of the other) and tracks on the other and the back on side with the guard.  Here's a picture with the tracks - wanted to make it look like the tracks were getting broken up and absorbed as the thing continued to mutate and really happy with the look,

 

 

And here's the tracks on the backside, drooping off.

 

 

And here is the side with the track guard with the spikes breaking through - also show some of the green stuffed "muscles" around the arm sockets.   It also shows how I put a ram bar on the front - I decided I didn't want a mouth up there so that fills that empty space, and helps replicate some of the look of the original defiler, which has a similar structure on the front.

 

 

Here's some eyes I added to the left side (so the side with the trackguards and without the mouth) back by the smoke stacks.

 

 

And here's the bottom - less concerned with what it looks like, but I wanted to fill the spaces between the rollers.  It also shows where I added some cabling to the middle left leg (the bottom of the photo) and hanging below the hull on the front right (top of photo).  It also shows the cabling on the rear right leg, but that isn't new.

 

 

Finally, I've built some cabling/piping for the combibolter/weapon to explain how its fired without a gunner.  Its magnetized so I can swap it between the two guns (bolter v weapon) or swap it with a plain hatch.

 

 

I've also been working on tongue and front options, but will put those in another post - there are enough photos in this one as it is.

[Volgon]

Looking great, I really love the teeth using toothpicks!

[Brother Nathan]

Comming together really really well! Im impressed! Out of interest do you know how it compares profile wise to a defiler? Not that my stupid tall one can talk but just interested out of comparison.

Also will be watching raptors progress as iv a squad of the same models to do soon

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Thanks @Volgon and @Brother Nathan!

 

Brother Nathan, I'm not exactly sure how it compares, as I don't know if I've ever seen a defiler in person (not recently) - near the beginning of the project, @Tallarn Commander helpfully provided a picture of his defiler next to a russ, but his is converted (has a hellbrute for a torso)  so a isn't an exact match to the proportions of that stock model.  Based on that photo, I would guess mine is approximately the right size, but probably shorter both in length and height, but probably wider.  Probably the biggest difference is in the front claws - on the GW model, theirs take up a lot of real estate.  If I ever get it next to an actual defiler and have my camera with me, I'll be sure to take some photos.  As for the raptors, I'm hoping to get at least some of them painted for Call to Arms - just need to figure out my new airbrush (never used one before) first.

 

As it turns out, I made up my mind (mostly) as to the front and the tongue and didn't need to post all the pictures of the funky options I tried as part of the decision process (I can still share those if you guys want).  Hopefully you guys like what I came up with.  So, asides from whatever Sitnam may convince me to do with the cannon (in the WIP forum he suggested I add fleshy bits to it) and if you guys convince me to go with the alternate tongue, the build is done. 

 

So, here's what I ended up doing on the front end.  This picture also shows the flail option I built (the whisk of doom).

 

 

Basically, I decided against the eye cluster as most of the time (except when I was fielding it with the reaper autocannon) I would already have a cluster on the other side on the front gun mount (as seen here) and I wanted to avoid that symmetry.  I still thought an eye there was a good idea, though, so I made an eye stalk with the eye being held by an arm, as I thought it would be creepy. 

 

A bunch of you also wanted a 3d melty face, which I thought was also a good idea but wasn't sure if I could really pull it off.  So I had a go at it and made the arm come out of its mouth.  Not totally happy with my work, but its probably fine with the arm sticking out in front of it and kind of obscuring it.

 

Here's a picture of the flail from the side - incidentally, the claws on the end are some of the oldest bits in my bit box, and come from my earliest conversions - they are knives from the plastic goliath models from the 1st edition necromunda box. shaved to put the main cutting edges on what was the back of the knife.

 

 

Here is the tongue that I've mostly settled on - building it out of a plastic twist tie allowed me to make it forked, something I don't think I could have pulled off effectively  if the tongue had been made of greenstuff.  There is some greenstufffing on the back to flatten out the ridge made by the metal wire inside the tie.  I'm not gluing it on until after its painted, so its position isn't finalized yet.

 

 

Here's the other option - if I were to use it, I would greenstuff the transition between the head and the cable to make it more natural.  Went with the above largely because the tie is a lot easier to position and deal with than the guitar string.  The head of the tongue is from the new demon prince kit - and the blue tac is obviously temporary.

 

 

I suppose there is also the option to go no tongue at all - anyway, let me know what you think.

 

Other than that, the final bits of the conversion were pretty minor.  I built a second eye cluster (actually, the 3rd, to replace the 2nd which went missing) as I need two if I put the reaper autocannon on it as I need one for each side sponson - don't think it warrants its own picture unless you guys want one.

 

The final change was carving the ejection port out of a heavy bolter and then flipping it onto the other side so both sponson heavy bolters (if I use that option) eject away from the hull.  Kind a real nitpicking thing, really.  Probably doesn't warrant its own photo, but you are getting one regardless.

 

 

One final picture of the defiler with all of its magnetising bits.

 

 

All that is left now (other than any last minute changes arising from you guys' suggestions) is the painting - I'll be making it my first vow for Call to Arms.

Edited June 7 by Dr_Ruminahui

[INKS]

Feels like I've been waiting for -forever for emperor's children codex or update. awesome to see all your progress over time

[TrawlingCleaner]

This is equal parts nuts and amazing, I absolutely love this! Great Work Dr!

[Dr_Ruminahui]

@TrawlingCleaner - Thanks!  That means a lot coming from you, given your own creative and innovative kit bashes and conversions.

 

@INKS - Thanks for the encouraging words, though truth being told I didn't have a very productive year, not in terms of finished models - I think the guy I painted last weekend is the first finished model I've pushed out since the end of last year's Call to Arms (so, last October).  Looking forward to getting more done this Call to Arms, though I am kind of apprehensive about learning how to use an airbrush to do the raptors.

 

Funny thing about waiting so long for emperor's children getting their own rules - I started this army in the dieing days of 7th edition, back in 2017, and its been emperor's children themed from the very beginning.  If I had waited until actual rules came out, I wouldn't have an army and I don't know what I would have been working on in the meantime.  This does mean that potentially I've now painted a bunch of stuff that may not be useable if/when there is a codex and I've pretty much reconciled myself that a bunch of the stuff I have done won't be usable under any new codex and that when that time comes I may well continue fielding my army as codex chaos marines until I have enough new stuff painted to justify the switch over to the new rules.

 

One example of this reconciliation process is that 2.5 years ago in 9th ed. I gave up on waiting and decided to make a unit of melee noise marines.  Since 10th, however, I've been fielding them as legionaires and recently decided to kit them up to take advantage of their being such - namely, giving the squad a guy with a heavy melee weapon, converting a painted guy to have a plasma pistol, and giving my aspiring champion a plasma pistol option (I had magnetized him when his twin lightning claw loadout became illegal, but hadn't really done any other options for him yet).  Anyway, here are the 3 together - really happy with the heavy melee weapon guy in particular.  I'm continuing to use the lightning claw as a power fist (well, a heavy melee weapon, but they and fists have the same profile so I don't see the need to differentiate yet) - they are visually similar enough (especially for chaos) that its not something that bugs me too much, and I'll be applying it consistently across my army... I won't ever be using a single lightning claw as an accursed weapon, they will all be power fists unless they are a pair.

 

 

Tried a new technique for the plasma glow as I wasn't happy with my old way of doing it.  Still not totally sold on it, but it is better.

 

I also primed my defiler, which I will take pictures of this Saturday as my first Call of Arms vow - looking forward to getting it painted.  Finally, I had bought some of the Hedonites of Slanesh dice that came out with their previous AoS release, but never really liked the lime yellow-green pips.  So I repainted their pips gold to look better and better match my army - the purple actually goes pretty well already. 

 

 

You can see the original pip colours on the 1st and 3rd rows of dice.  Just have one facing left on each die - should finish them tonight.

 

Wow, this post is awfully self absorbed.... sorry about that.

 

If I haven't said already, I really appreciate all the encouragement and advice on the defiler build - it really helped me keep at it and keep to my vision, as well as giving suggestions that lead to it being better model (both the tongue and the front face/eye were a result of thinking done as a result of comments from other posters).

Edited June 12 by Dr_Ruminahui

[INKS]

Appreciate all the effort that you've been putting forth over the years, I am so flip floppy on what I want to collect and paint that it's rare I ever get a full army. lol Dice and plasma look great in my opinion!

 

[Volgon]

Defiler is coming along fantastic, it'll be a real beauty all painted up!

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Thanks, @INKS and @Volgon.  Inks, if you have trouble sticking with one army, maybe doing something like killteams is right for you?  Low model count, highly individualized, and allowing for lots of variety, both within a team and between teams.  Like Volgon did, you could start up a thread so that people can encourage you and offer pointers, which might also help keep the enthusiasm up.

 

I thought you guys might be interested in some of the photos I took while trying to decide on the "face" of the model, before I settled on the creepy eye-holding arm.

I've already shared pictures of the 2 rhino "face" plates, so I won't post those again, but here are some of the other things I looked at:

 

A single giant eyeball:

 

 

Multiple eyes in a chaos pattern

 

 

Multiple eyes in a more random pattern

 

 

I also tried a couple of action figure heads to try doing a 3d "melty face" effect with - the idea was to glue the face on, then green stuff it pressing its way into the armor as if trying to escape the tank.

 

The first was from some unknown action figure - found it in a field decades ago and its been in my bits box since.  It would have needed to have been cut down.

 

 

The second is from an action figure I specifically bought from the dollar store for this project - it was the smallest head I could find with an open mouth.

 

 

Here's the action figure its from:

 

 

Ultimately, I discounted both of them as options as they were really too big for the space I had - they didn't give me enough room to do the greenstuff work for the stretching armor effect I wanted.

 

Anyway, I'm happy with the choice I settled on, but thought you might want to see what I also looked at to get there.

 

The process also left me with the ability to do an anime-haired demon prince should I ever buy another model:

 

[INKS]

@Dr_Ruminahui Yeah, something I should look into. Love that you went through and tried different things and figured out what in the end was the best fit for you. Thanks for sharing the other "what might have been" options.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I don't normally post pics of my WIP painting, but given the interest in the build, I thought I might as well.

 

 

This one is kind of an overall view - done all of the flesh except the legs and from eye stalk, done the central hull except for some edge highlighting, and figured out what I'm doing on the side - the purple there at the moment is really rough and basically just for me to see if it would work (it does), it will be cleaned up and the rest of the side will be dark purple like the central hull with the same edge highlighting.

 

 

Here's a picture showing the finished bits of the central hull, including the chained chaos star (well, almost done - the edges nearest the hatch still need highlighting, which will happen after I finish the flesh.

 

 

When painting models, I often hit kind of an "uncanny valley" when blocking out the main colours where it just seems to look worse and worse to me.  This is especially the case when I am struggling with how (or whether) to do something, as I was in this case with the purple chaos star on the side.  As its the detail work that I enjoy, I got myself out of that by painting the flail - plus, the above photo shows the mouth I gave it, which I don't think is in any of my other pictures.

 

 

This isn't the best WIP picture, but here are my WIP renegade guard, showing how the dark purple armour is the connecting piece with the tank.  I see my defiler as kind of the link between these guys and my chaos space marines, with the guard tank in their dark purple and the added on elements in the lighter purple of my marines.  Not sure if the renegade force will ultimately go anywhere such that I give them any tanks of their own, but this should give me the space aesthetically if I do.