The Big FAQ: Chaos Changes

[FirstSonofHorus]

I'll give the FAQ and rules changes credit in this regard: we're all starting to brainstorm a lot more new and interesting tactics now that "T1 deepstrike->Warptime" isn't on the table anymore. I mean... we've had serious discussions on using bikes, if that is any indication of our new mindset. Not saying everything is happy and shiny and perfect, but, hey... 

 

100% agree. The previous, deep strike --> warptime --> first turn charge tactic (or just using a command point to reroll charge, if not a blessed worshipper ofthe true gods) was not at all tactical or interesting. It was a no-brainer. Now all they need to do is find a way to stimulate similar thought from gunline armies.

[The Nephilim]

 

I'll give the FAQ and rules changes credit in this regard: we're all starting to brainstorm a lot more new and interesting tactics now that "T1 deepstrike->Warptime" isn't on the table anymore. I mean... we've had serious discussions on using bikes, if that is any indication of our new mindset. Not saying everything is happy and shiny and perfect, but, hey... 

 

100% agree. The previous, deep strike --> warptime --> first turn charge tactic (or just using a command point to reroll charge, if not a blessed worshipper ofthe true gods) was not at all tactical or interesting. It was a no-brainer. Now all they need to do is find a way to stimulate similar thought from gunline armies.

 

Continuing the brainstorm...

 

Okay, so we've worked on bikes as alternative harassment ideas. What about LOS blocking terrain? I was thinking maybe Chaos Bastions and bunkers. Not only is there a lot of modeling possibility as far as what you can accomplish, I think they look cool.

[Panzer]

Don't they still have to get placed within your own deployment zone? That makes the LoS blocking feature of fortifications a lot less interesting since you'd be standing infront of it once you are on your way to the opponent and most objectives anyway.

[The Nephilim]

Don't they still have to get placed within your own deployment zone? That makes the LoS blocking feature of fortifications a lot less interesting since you'd be standing infront of it once you are on your way to the opponent and most objectives anyway.

I don't know. I've not played in 8th yet. Still building my new army.

[Laughingman]

Can people confirm, I assume the FAQ will put an end too warptime shenanigans and "bombs" involving post deepstrike physic gimmicks (guardians, tzaangors)  The Allied bloodletter bomb is still a thing turn 2 even with the FAQ correct?

[Scourged]

Can people confirm, I assume the FAQ will put an end too warptime shenanigans and "bombs" involving post deepstrike physic gimmicks (guardians, tzaangors)  The Allied bloodletter bomb is still a thing turn 2 even with the FAQ correct?

Though they could answer you with more certainty in the Daemon forum... yes, as far as I know the only change to Bloodletter or Horror bomb is that it now has to wait until turn two. All other factors are unaffected. 

 

But this did remind me of something amusing... Alpha Legion can still get a T1 bomb, assuming you're okay with summoning. Since the infiltration doesn't count as moving (and please do correct me if I'm wrong here), that'll put you right in prime summoning range to do some serious hurt. Yeah, you won't get any Daemon loci helping you out, but that could still potentially be a bunch of Bloodletters swarming in or Horrors blasting things apart. As with all summoning, it's not perfect and comes with risk, so you wouldn't want to rely on it,, but it's a neat thought is all.

 

Seriously, that Alpha Legion... I'm almost starting to feel guilty for having spent years painting up a force. Is... is this what Eldar players feel like? 

[Lord Rust]

 

Can people confirm, I assume the FAQ will put an end too warptime shenanigans and "bombs" involving post deepstrike physic gimmicks (guardians, tzaangors)  The Allied bloodletter bomb is still a thing turn 2 even with the FAQ correct?

Though they could answer you with more certainty in the Daemon forum... yes, as far as I know the only change to Bloodletter or Horror bomb is that it now has to wait until turn two. All other factors are unaffected. 

 

But this did remind me of something amusing... Alpha Legion can still get a T1 bomb, assuming you're okay with summoning. Since the infiltration doesn't count as moving (and please do correct me if I'm wrong here), that'll put you right in prime summoning range to do some serious hurt. Yeah, you won't get any Daemon loci helping you out, but that could still potentially be a bunch of Bloodletters swarming in or Horrors blasting things apart. As with all summoning, it's not perfect and comes with risk, so you wouldn't want to rely on it,, but it's a neat thought is all.

 

Seriously, that Alpha Legion... I'm almost starting to feel guilty for having spent years painting up a force. Is... is this what Eldar players feel like? 

 

Unfortunately it doesnt work

when Daemons are summoned they are treated as reinforcements

so they would be subject to only coming in your own deployment zone on turn 1

[DkMiBuch]

 

 

Hey guys

 

I have a question on the Music of the Apocalypse Part of the FAQ regarding close combat.

 

Q: If a Noise Marine is slain whilst its unit is within 1" of an

enemy unit, can he use his Music of the Apocalypse ability to

shoot the unit that is within 1"?

A: Yes, but only with a Pistol.

 

Does this mean if Noise marine sqad engaged in CC with Unit A and a unit B standling like 12" away is it...

 

A: Still allowed to attack unit B with normal shooting?

B: Has to attack Unit A with pistol?

 

Thats not 100% clarified especially because of this:

 

Q: If a Noise Marine is slain in the Fight phase, and he uses

his Music of the Apocalypse ability to shoot an

Imperium

unit

and subsequently rolls a hit roll of 6+, does the Death to the False

Emperor ability then grant him an extra attack with that weapon,

even though it’s a ranged weapon?

A: Yes. In this situation, make an extra hit roll against the

target on a hit roll of 6+.

 

Whats your thoughts on this?

 

 

To your first question:

Nothing about Music of the Apocalypse allows you to shoot non-pistol weapons while you're within 1" of an enemy unit. So definitely not A. It's B.

 

About the second entry. You can still use DttFE with your Bolt Pistol so there's nothing contradicting there.

 

 Maybe I'm missing something, but in the codex it says ".. the slain model can make shooting attack with one of its ranged weapons, or throw a grenade, even if the model's unit is within 1" of the enemy".

I don't see that the FAQ has changed anything about the scenario described by Maschinenpriester, other than the unit engaged in cc with the Noise marines can no longer be targeted other than by pistols. So I'd say A, and not B is correct.

[ChazSexington]

 

Can people confirm, I assume the FAQ will put an end too warptime shenanigans and "bombs" involving post deepstrike physic gimmicks (guardians, tzaangors)  The Allied bloodletter bomb is still a thing turn 2 even with the FAQ correct?

Though they could answer you with more certainty in the Daemon forum... yes, as far as I know the only change to Bloodletter or Horror bomb is that it now has to wait until turn two. All other factors are unaffected. 

 

But this did remind me of something amusing... Alpha Legion can still get a T1 bomb, assuming you're okay with summoning. Since the infiltration doesn't count as moving (and please do correct me if I'm wrong here), that'll put you right in prime summoning range to do some serious hurt. Yeah, you won't get any Daemon loci helping you out, but that could still potentially be a bunch of Bloodletters swarming in or Horrors blasting things apart. As with all summoning, it's not perfect and comes with risk, so you wouldn't want to rely on it,, but it's a neat thought is all.

 

Seriously, that Alpha Legion... I'm almost starting to feel guilty for having spent years painting up a force. Is... is this what Eldar players feel like? 

 

Bloodletter bomb relies on using a CP to upgrade an Icon, which can only be done if it's in your army list, so you can't do it by summoning. 

 

But yeah, the FAQ made Alpha Legion that much relatively better than everyone else (bar gunlines). I had 120 Cultists/Renegade Guard in 6/7th (stripped a third while waiting for 8th), all Alpha Legion. I actually had to rebuild my list to not lose friends ;p

[Scourged]

Ah... I knew others would know better than I would about such things. I've never done daemons. Mea culpa.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

Hey guys

 

I have a question on the Music of the Apocalypse Part of the FAQ regarding close combat.

 

Q: If a Noise Marine is slain whilst its unit is within 1" of an

enemy unit, can he use his Music of the Apocalypse ability to

shoot the unit that is within 1"?

A: Yes, but only with a Pistol.

 

Does this mean if Noise marine sqad engaged in CC with Unit A and a unit B standling like 12" away is it...

 

A: Still allowed to attack unit B with normal shooting?

B: Has to attack Unit A with pistol?

 

Thats not 100% clarified especially because of this:

 

Q: If a Noise Marine is slain in the Fight phase, and he uses

his Music of the Apocalypse ability to shoot an

Imperium

unit

and subsequently rolls a hit roll of 6+, does the Death to the False

Emperor ability then grant him an extra attack with that weapon,

even though it’s a ranged weapon?

A: Yes. In this situation, make an extra hit roll against the

target on a hit roll of 6+.

 

Whats your thoughts on this?

 

 

To your first question:

Nothing about Music of the Apocalypse allows you to shoot non-pistol weapons while you're within 1" of an enemy unit. So definitely not A. It's B.

 

About the second entry. You can still use DttFE with your Bolt Pistol so there's nothing contradicting there.

 

 Maybe I'm missing something, but in the codex it says ".. the slain model can make shooting attack with one of its ranged weapons, or throw a grenade, even if the model's unit is within 1" of the enemy".

I don't see that the FAQ has changed anything about the scenario described by Maschinenpriester, other than the unit engaged in cc with the Noise marines can no longer be targeted other than by pistols. So I'd say A, and not B is correct.

 

 

That's what I get for answering rules questions from memory. Must have mixed it up with the argument about shooting the unit you're in melee with without readjusting it properly in my head after the FAQ. 

You're of course right and I was talking nonsense. Answer A is definitely correct.

[HeresyBeliever]

 

 

But yeah, the FAQ made Alpha Legion that much relatively better than everyone else (bar gunlines). 

 

100% correct, 

 

And we now have 2 extra CP's to do it.

 

2 x units of 40 cultists coming in 9 inch away, be it if you go first or not now is the way to go. 

They either spend all there bullets killing them, or they die your first turn.  

[Iron Father Ferrum]

No thanks. I can do better, tactically speaking, than "shove chaff in front of the guns."

[Panzer]

Well depending on your opponents army there's barely any better tactic tho.

If he relies on heavy deep strike just put 2x40 Cultists all over the board and he either has to kill them all while the rest of your army has time to spread out as well or he has to deep strike in his own deployment zone aka having no deep strike at all. It's not "shove chaff in front of the guns", it's "force enemy reserves to land where you want them".

Of course against armies with huge anti-chaff damage output like Berzerkers or Aggressors etc. that's not going to work but in that case you simply don't do it. :P

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Before we get too deep into the use of Cultists, we should take it to another thread. This is an FAQ discussion, not a tactica.

[HeresyBeliever]

Before we get too deep into the use of Cultists, we should take it to another thread. This is an FAQ discussion, not a tactica.

Agreed 

Personally I don't see the FAQ as much of an issue. The 'tide of traitors' and zombie farm nerfs seem fair. 

 

I like the rule of 3 as it makes lists more diverse and more fun to play against. But I do feel for the people who have brought and painted (when painted well) a lot of model to not be able to use them. I have about 10 hellbrutes but as they mostly have different load outs its fine I can pick and choose. I know people with 8 DG slug tanks so its crap for him but tough spam is boring to play with and against. 

[ChazSexington]

No thanks. I can do better, tactically speaking, than "shove chaff in front of the guns."

 

If you don't, you're gonna have a bad day. That's why CSMs are doing better than SMs. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Really? I figured better stratagems, better psychic powers, and the use of cheap Troops (cultists MSU) for easier access to CPs were all major contributing causes.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I use Cultists too, but I use them as I said above: a cheap MSU squad or two to fill up a Battalion. I slot one or two CSM squads into the other Battalion requirement(s) because I get more use, tactically, from models that don't blow away in a stiff breeze.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Well depending on your opponents army there's barely any better tactic tho.

If he relies on heavy deep strike just put 2x40 Cultists all over the board and he either has to kill them all while the rest of your army has time to spread out as well or he has to deep strike in his own deployment zone aka having no deep strike at all. It's not "shove chaff in front of the guns", it's "force enemy reserves to land where you want them".

Of course against armies with huge anti-chaff damage output like Berzerkers or Aggressors etc. that's not going to work but in that case you simply don't do it.

Speaking of huge anti-chaff output. The amount of that in CSM armies is going to go way up with bikes and Rhinos being more viable. Combi-Bolter spam FTW.

 

And yeah....Raven Guard Aggressors....Oi.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I'm skipping the bikes and looking to Raptors for speed. As an Alpha player, I can either deep strike or infiltrate them as the situational dictates and while their damage output in pure dice is less, they have greater tactical mobility thanks to the Fly keyword.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I'm skipping the bikes and looking to Raptors for speed. As an Alpha player, I can either deep strike or infiltrate them as the situational dictates and while their damage output in pure dice is less, they have greater tactical mobility thanks to the Fly keyword.

Yeah, Alpha Legion needs bikes a lot less than other forces. I do the same thing in my Night Lords because bikes can't benefit from In Midnight Clad.

 

On the other hand, my Black Legion and Renegade armies have tons.

[The Nephilim]

Alpha Legion is really tempting this edition, but I really love Music of the Apocalypse. I might just have to paint my stuff purple regardless, and call them Alpha Legion.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

I do agree, the nerf for Deepstrike + warptime could give the fast attack slot a chance to shine. 

 

Right now i'm thinking about seeker squad, Slaanesh Daemon prince with wings and Slaanesh Celerity as warlord. 

 

That's a 14"+D6+ 2 +2D6 (with reroll) and the Daemon Prince can keep up with his 15"+ D6 + 2D6 mouvements and charge. 

[Drudge Dreadnought]

With the new CPs from battalions, I'm wondering how we'd do just going for a CP spam army. We have some really nasty strats. Basically, a ton of cultist battalions, cheap HQs, and then a few units to spam strats on.

 

4x slaanesh lascannon havoc to get VOTLW and double shot every turn = 3CP

Defiler or fiend to get Daemon Forge, maybe both shooting and assaulting = 1-2CP

Lascannon + Missile helbrute to fire frenzy every turn = 1CP

A Berzerker unit to fight a 3rd time with fury of Khorne = 3CP

40 man cultist blob for the 1 tide of traitors = 2CP

 

If we can pull 3 battalions, then we've got 18CPs. So we can do the above every turn for several turns (unlikely to do all of it every turn.)

This of course wouldn't be a huge number of elite units on the board, so we'd need FNP from psychic power and perhaps iron warriors to protect these units. IW would be good for this overall as you'll have a lot of cultists+auras, so having a fearless aura would go a long way. Probably can't fit ALL of the above options, but don't necessarily need them all.

[Copycat Copycat]

I can’t seem to find the new rules regarding chosen war gear. Could someone link the new rules or let me know where to find them? Much appreciated.