Think Tank: Hypothesizing SW Unit Combo's, Options, Etc.

[Jackalwolf]

Thanks and ah well pity :)

[M.Redbeard]

Combi-weapons can be fired every turn in 8th edition. Also, you can choose to fire both barrels each turn if you wish (but you get a -1 penalty). This means that when facing hordes, combi-plas is nearly as good as a storm bolter (just don't overcharge). When firing on tough targets, skip the bolter bit and overcharge the plasma guns.

 

Cataphracti terminators are extremely unlikely to get access to combi plas as there are no weapons in the kit for it. New units typically only include rules for the parts present in the kit. I think we only get combi weapons on our regular Termies as a (welcome) historical anomaly.

as I said on the thread before, with Keen Senses you can fire both profiles without the penalty. That will makw it a chaff clearer and even against a vehicle you might drop a wound or two due to sheer numbers. Nice little thing our WG can do now.

 

Can't do regular terminators but can do combi plasma! Do combo weapons fire more than once in this edition?

 

Also when going cataphractii with Combi plasma what do I put in the other hand? Power fist?

 

Edit: just noticed I can't do Combi plasma on cataphractii. hope that gets FAQ

If a change comes I do not expect it earlier than the next Chapter Approves. Cataphractii all have the same loadout and while the Wolves should have a more versatile approach, I doubt they will only let us have the new toys.

[Karhedron]

as I said on the thread before, with Keen Senses you can fire both profiles without the penalty. That will makw it a chaff clearer and even against a vehicle you might drop a wound or two due to sheer numbers. Nice little thing our WG can do now.

Good catch!

 

OK 10 WG termies with 8 Combi-plas and 2 assault cannons = 514 points

Arjac = 145 points (extra attack and allows rorolls of 1s to wound)

Rune Priest with JP = 112 points (Wulfen stone)

 

That little bomb comes in at just over half your points in a 1500 point game but what a unit! They can unleash 16 bolter shots, 16 plasma shots and 12 assault cannon shots on the turn they land, all hitting on 3s. If they charge or get charged, they get 40 power fist attacks, hitting on 3s. If the Priest casts a cheap Smite and then uses CbtS, the enemy gets -1 to hit when shooting the blob. If he manages to cast Storm Caller too, they get an extra +1 on their saves which will help against AP-1-3 weapons.

 

I would be seriously tempted to add a Wolf Lord to reroll 1s to hit to mitigate plasma overheats. A Wolf Priest would also be able to heal models and give rerolls to all misses in CC.

 

OK, where is the cheapest source of terminator-compatible combi-plas?

[PeteySödes]

 

as I said on the thread before, with Keen Senses you can fire both profiles without the penalty. That will makw it a chaff clearer and even against a vehicle you might drop a wound or two due to sheer numbers. Nice little thing our WG can do now.

Good catch!

 

OK 10 WG termies with 8 Combi-plas and 2 assault cannons = 514 points

Arjac = 145 points (extra attack and allows rorolls of 1s to wound)

Rune Priest with JP = 112 points (Wulfen stone)

 

That little bomb comes in at just over half your points in a 1500 point game but what a unit! They can unleash 16 bolter shots, 16 plasma shots and 12 assault cannon shots on the turn they land, all hitting on 3s. If they charge or get charged, they get 40 power fist attacks, hitting on 3s. If the Priest casts a cheap Smite and then uses CbtS, the enemy gets -1 to hit when shooting the blob. If he manages to cast Storm Caller too, they get an extra +1 on their saves which will help against AP-1-3 weapons.

 

I would be seriously tempted to add a Wolf Lord to reroll 1s to hit to mitigate plasma overheats. A Wolf Priest would also be able to heal models and give rerolls to all misses in CC.

 

OK, where is the cheapest source of terminator-compatible combi-plas?

 

 

Yea this totally, my debacle i posted was me trying to squeeze in as many WG bodies to capitalize on the combat auras. The Terminator bomb like this is could see working on gunline armies to hem them in while another force presses in.

 

This will struggle mightily against fast moving armies like eldar though. Not strong enough to cripple an army on the drop and slow after that.

[Jackalwolf]

 

 

 

as I said on the thread before, with Keen Senses you can fire both profiles without the penalty. That will makw it a chaff clearer and even against a vehicle you might drop a wound or two due to sheer numbers. Nice little thing our WG can do now.

Good catch!

 

OK 10 WG termies with 8 Combi-plas and 2 assault cannons = 514 points

Arjac = 145 points (extra attack and allows rorolls of 1s to wound)

Rune Priest with JP = 112 points (Wulfen stone)

 

That little bomb comes in at just over half your points in a 1500 point game but what a unit! They can unleash 16 bolter shots, 16 plasma shots and 12 assault cannon shots on the turn they land, all hitting on 3s. If they charge or get charged, they get 40 power fist attacks, hitting on 3s. If the Priest casts a cheap Smite and then uses CbtS, the enemy gets -1 to hit when shooting the blob. If he manages to cast Storm Caller too, they get an extra +1 on their saves which will help against AP-1-3 weapons.

 

I would be seriously tempted to add a Wolf Lord to reroll 1s to hit to mitigate plasma overheats. A Wolf Priest would also be able to heal models and give rerolls to all misses in CC.

 

OK, where is the cheapest source of terminator-compatible combi-plas?

Yea this totally, my debacle i posted was me trying to squeeze in as many WG bodies to capitalize on the combat auras. The Terminator bomb like this is could see working on gunline armies to hem them in while another force presses in.

 

This will struggle mightily against fast moving armies like eldar though. Not strong enough to cripple an army on the drop and slow after that.

In that case you could play to the mission rather than to the kill, by having them occupy objectives with their superior resilience, and with counter attack and heroic interventions they won't even dare charging you!

[PeteySödes]

I always play the mission, we've needed to for a long time now. I hate to break it to you but TDA doesnt really equal superior resilience like it used to. If you're going to play aggressive like it seems you want to you need to gut them and have enough in the tank to survive.

[Jackalwolf]

I always play the mission, we've needed to for a long time now. I hate to break it to you but TDA doesnt really equal superior resilience like it used to. If you're going to play aggressive like it seems you want to you need to gut them and have enough in the tank to survive.

:(( I miss 3+ in 2d6 and a terminator rising from the dust after a nuclear attack. Thanks for the input! So it's either I get to cc or I take care of not being shot at?

[PeteySödes]

 

I always play the mission, we've needed to for a long time now. I hate to break it to you but TDA doesnt really equal superior resilience like it used to. If you're going to play aggressive like it seems you want to you need to gut them and have enough in the tank to survive.

( I miss 3+ in 2d6 and a terminator rising from the dust after a nuclear attack. Thanks for the input! So it's either I get to cc or I take care of not being shot at?

 

 

Yea I'm still holding hope for chapter approved to get them some love.

 

As for the tactics, it totally depends on the opponent I think. I think that terminators can be pretty good objective holders as you say but you need to give your opponent something better to shoot at. If they get focussed they're dead, so you want to get them in combat if you can but you're looking at a 9" charge which is far from guaranteed so you see the issue.

 

The other issue currently with using them as a hammer is the stuff they'll excel as killing is chaff or maybe a mid tier threat. The combi-plas output is less than what you'd get from dirt cheap tempestas. Thats why I see using them dropping in to clear bubble wrap as dreads, twolves, or other stuff presses in. Key would be getting EVERYTHING in setup range at the same time so they end up having too many options to shoot.

 

My next plan is loading up a Stormwolf with bloodclaws, wulfen, and a Wolf priest while bjorn and 2 wulfen dreads b-line up the board. Ideally, they can crash into the line (or be close) when the Stormwolf gets with to the deploy range. This way they need to choose between 4+ save toting armor or the Stormwolf at -1 to hit. Regardless of what they choose somethings gonna hit. All this while LFs pound the at range and somehow are not even close to the biggest threat. If that works I'll try subbing the wulfen for my precious TDA.

[Jackalwolf]

Hey guys, if I take a jump pack on my wolf priest can he deep strike in with my Terminators?

[PeteySödes]

Hey guys, if I take a jump pack on my wolf priest can he deep strike in with my Terminators?

 

Yea for sure, it'd be a separate deployment drop since they don't really deploy "together" in any real sense.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

My initial fun and fluffy list. The WL on TW has the Wulfenstone since BS doesn't have relics in yet.

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [106 PL, 1610pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Bjorn the Fell-handed [12 PL, 247pts]: Heavy flamer, Saga of Majesty, Twin lascannon, Warlord

 

I'm sure I'm missing something here, but please indulge me...

 

Isn't 247 way too much for Bjorn here? Is Battlescribe not updated with the Codex values?

 

EDIT: Okay, I downloaded it and monkeyed around a little. They have Bjorn listed as 219 points base. He should be 180. So by my amateur maths it looks like you have another 39 points to play with.

[WolfLordZeev]

 

 

My initial fun and fluffy list. The WL on TW has the Wulfenstone since BS doesn't have relics in yet.

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [106 PL, 1610pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Bjorn the Fell-handed [12 PL, 247pts]: Heavy flamer, Saga of Majesty, Twin lascannon, Warlord

I'm sure I'm missing something here, but please indulge me...

 

Isn't 247 way too much for Bjorn here? Is Battlescribe not updated with the Codex values?

 

EDIT: Okay, I downloaded it and monkeyed around a little. They have Bjorn listed as 219 points base. He should be 180. So by my amateur maths it looks like you have another 39 points to play with.

No his points are correct. Bjorn has to pay for his guns. So 180 base, and 67 for the HF and Twin Lascannon

[Guest Triszin]

which is the better aggressor build, flame or bolt storm?

[Gherrick]

which is the better aggressor build, flame or bolt storm?

IMO, the bolt storm is better overall. The range is the deciding factor, but also the sheer volume of predictable shots. 6+d6 (even with 3+ hit) is FAR better than 2d6 autohit, IMO. I often have my aggressors outflank, and that 18" is a very nice range for target options. I usually have them near my outflanked wulfen, making target priority a bit difficult on my opponent.

[Nadir]

Bolt. Because when you will deploy them from the Cunning, the are in range and can shoot twice (they haven't moved yet, just being deployed) :)

[PeteySödes]

Bolt. Because when you will deploy them from the Cunning, the are in range and can shoot twice (they haven't moved yet, just being deployed) :)

Oh damn have I been mixing my editions and treating my outflanks as moving this whole time? I swear that wording was in there somewhere.

[Nadir]

At the end of the movement phase you "DEPLOY/ SET IT UP" your unit.

[TiguriusX]

coming onto the board usually counts as moving

 

long fangs get the heavy weapon penalty for using outflank

 

I'd get a clear rule before trying it in a game. you dont want to be "that guy"

[M.Redbeard]

It is movement when you bring them out of reserves like Cunning of the Wolf. On the BRB in the movement phase first page (page 3 of the free pamphlet, unde Wobbly Model Syndrome) under reserves it states "units that arrive as reinforcement count as having moved in the Movement phase for all rules purposes". So Aggressors do not get to fire twice after arriving.

 

But at least they get to fire so unless you have a reliable way to get them.into 8" the bolt variant at least lets you start getting some shots. You only get one less hit in average tham the flamer too, so it is worth it.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

 

My initial fun and fluffy list. The WL on TW has the Wulfenstone since BS doesn't have relics in yet.

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [106 PL, 1610pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Bjorn the Fell-handed [12 PL, 247pts]: Heavy flamer, Saga of Majesty, Twin lascannon, Warlord

I'm sure I'm missing something here, but please indulge me...

 

Isn't 247 way too much for Bjorn here? Is Battlescribe not updated with the Codex values?

 

EDIT: Okay, I downloaded it and monkeyed around a little. They have Bjorn listed as 219 points base. He should be 180. So by my amateur maths it looks like you have another 39 points to play with.

No his points are correct. Bjorn has to pay for his guns. So 180 base, and 67 for the HF and Twin Lascannon

 

 

Bjorn gets the Heavy Flamer stock. So he only has to pay 28 points to upgrade to the Twin LasCannon (he gets 22 points for trading in the Assault Cannon).

 

Again, I checked Battlescribe. They have Bjorn listed at 219 points before any modification. They are wrong. That is why they have his total here as 247 (219 + 28). It should be 218 (180 + 28). (<-- EDIT: 208, thanks GrFlur.)

[PeteySödes]

It is movement when you bring them out of reserves like Cunning of the Wolf. On the BRB in the movement phase first page (page 3 of the free pamphlet, unde Wobbly Model Syndrome) under reserves it states "units that arrive as reinforcement count as having moved in the Movement phase for all rules purposes". So Aggressors do not get to fire twice after arriving.

 

But at least they get to fire so unless you have a reliable way to get them.into 8" the bolt variant at least lets you start getting some shots. You only get one less hit in average tham the flamer too, so it is worth it.

Phew I knew it. I’d have been sad if I was shooting myself in the foot (at -1).

 

Eh? Eh?

[Jackalwolf]

Keen senses would make short work of that anyway no?

[PeteySödes]

Keen senses would make short work of that anyway no?

Absolutely for the long fang example. It wouldn’t help aggressors though. I just got excited since we’re pretty CP starved and each one really counts.

[GrFlur]

218 = 180+28 ...???

 

My Maths sucks.. I thought 208 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

218 = 180+28 ...???

 

My Maths sucks.. I thought 208 

 

Eep. You are correct. It is a 39 point difference like I originally said, I just managed to screw up the real number after that (247 - 218 = 29, not 39).