The Spanish Inquisitor Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Some people imagined that most of OG Marines turned Vets after the Indomitus Crusade, and that most of newbies are now directly primaris, hence the points decreases for Vets and Primaris. And nothing for Tactical and Assault Marines. It might makes sense from a fluff point of view. But it hurts our crusaders squads from a gameplay point of view. Vets are just one point more than regular marines now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_F_H Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 OK... I'm really out of the loop on 8th... What are company vets? The last time I looked the only company vets in the whole game were dark angels... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Awesome stuff! Pretty excited for the new army building possibilities this brings. Now that drop pods went down you can even toss down some Company Veterans with a hero or two for some epicness. The only downside, as Acebur mentioned, is that it doesn't affect VV and Termies. Too bad Company Veterans can only be taken in a squad of 5.... :/ really limits the impact of our stratagems. Master swordsman is just too cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrified Templar Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 OK... I'm really out of the loop on 8th... What are company vets? The last time I looked the only company vets in the whole game were dark angels... Company Vets are basically what was left of the old Command Squad after Banner Bearers, Champions, and Apothecaries were made into characters. They're...ok I guess. Not really a unit I'd think would do well in close combat but I hope to be proven wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Are we back? Are we? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Well turned out the rumor that'd we'd finally get rules for "Primaris sword brothers" that could take close combat weapons and power weapons was a bunch of lies. And yes I do find that dissappointing.Those will eventually happen I am sure as they expand the primaris range. OK... I'm really out of the loop on 8th... What are company vets? The last time I looked the only company vets in the whole game were dark angels...They are in principle what was left of the "command squad" unit. In practice, they amount to vanguard veterans without kumppacks in terms of loadout and costs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Are we back? Are we? We've never left, Brother. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 We had a bit of a sabbatical. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 You win this round, GW. Edit- Huh, Grimaldus can't be a Sword Brother...weird. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmmmm Napalm Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Going to have to agree with Sete here, I would have preferred something for Primaris. I would have interpretated that as more of a sign that we have a future beyond status as a footnote. Hopefully we get a new upgrade sprue at some point, and the remaining codex chapters receive one as well That said, I like the rules of the detachment, and it is fluffy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 I think it will come at some point. Isn't it a good sign that they recognize old marines, as well as adding a bunch of very fluffy goodies for our chapter?! What's not to like... As for Pramiaris, look at the veteran intercessors, 3 attacks each and have some good strats. Can be your sword brother primaris right there..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Model them with Chainswords for the bants. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 2 Veteran Squads and Helbrecht with Vows in a newly discounted LRC. Just like old times...mostly Now where to find all those CP in a purist Templar army...woof. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 No lieutenant in that detach? After all they are chosen from the SB ranks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedFox Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Yeah that's the problem...sure I'll convert my crusader squads to have 4 attacks SB squads but where will I get the CPs for it if my vostroyan CP farm can't be used on marines? :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 VOWS ARE BACK! Thats awesome, both strats seem to be quite if a bit limited but at this point I'll take it. Can anyone make out what the warlord trait does? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Going to have to agree with Sete here, I would have preferred something for Primaris. I would have interpretated that as more of a sign that we have a future beyond status as a footnote. Hopefully we get a new upgrade sprue at some point, and the remaining codex chapters receive one as well That said, I like the rules of the detachment, and it is fluffy. Considering that Primaris Marines are the focus of the Narrative, and we got rules, although flavourfull, for Ogmarines, I don't consider this a good sign for us in the future. My .2 on this. Enjoy the rules my dudes. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Vespasian Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 So ill habe to have a look at my old metal sword brethren. But I should have at least the one with the energy claws and the some with chainsword and pistol. Maybe I can covert them to have axes and pistol... Claws on the squad leader, 4*axes + pistol. Stormshield not needed because of the Fnp. Lightning claws not really needed either but that one extra attack.... Should fill a razorback with a Chaplain quite nicely Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 I listed all the things up above but the Warlord trait is Master Swordsman - +1 attack and when you roll a 6 to hit it causes 2 hits lol You win this round, GW. Edit- Huh, Grimaldus can't be a Sword Brother...weird. Well, he's not a Sword Brethren. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedFox Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 I just realised company vets are a 5 men unit max. It sucks. Unless you're running tons of crusader squads (which you don't want to) there is no way you can have enough CP for this detachment to be effective. Bring IG farm back! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 He was at least, and the youngest in Chapter history. Still, fairly content with this. Helbrecht or the Champion with that WT...yummy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Would the detachment work with company veterans on bikes? They seem to have the same keywords but I may be missing something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Would the detachment work with company veterans on bikes? They seem to have the same keywords but I may be missing something. Well if it's the same keyword, yes, until stated otherwise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 I just realised company vets are a 5 men unit max. It sucks. Unless you're running tons of crusader squads (which you don't want to) there is no way you can have enough CP for this detachment to be effective. Bring IG farm back! Did they change the way CP usage works for armies? If not, it’s not great but it would be incredibly strong on a full 10 man unit. Now our company veterans can be precision hammers. Have 3 groups of 5 with flavour and use them as you wish. Toss them in a LRC, pod, wtv. If they didn’t change how CPs work you can still add a batallion of BT, or other chapter. Get one unit of 10 intercessors, upgrade them to vets, and bring 2 crusader squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 I just realised company vets are a 5 men unit max. It sucks. Unless you're running tons of crusader squads (which you don't want to) there is no way you can have enough CP for this detachment to be effective. Bring IG farm back! Did they change the way CP usage works for armies? If not, it’s not great but it would be incredibly strong on a full 10 man unit. Now our company veterans can be precision hammers. Have 3 groups of 5 with flavour and use them as you wish. Toss them in a LRC, pod, wtv. If they didn’t change how CPs work you can still add a batallion of BT, or other chapter. Get one unit of 10 intercessors, upgrade them to vets, and bring 2 crusader squads. Who says I don't want to run a ton of Crusader squads? With the discounts from CA it's easier to fill out detachments. Not incredibly easy, but easier. With the current points I can easily make a 2k double battalion with 3 Tide squads, 4 small shooty squads, 2 Ironclads, 2 Thunderfires, a Champion, Grimaldus, and Lieutenants. Everything there but the Crusader Squads is significantly cheaper. Are the Vows something we can afford to use every turn? No. Can we give a 20 man unit +1 attack and wound re-rolls? Also no. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if we could, but a 5 man unit with 2 point Storm Shields, and 5+ FNP in a pinch is a fairly hardy unit. For 100 points you can have 5 Veterans with Shields and Power Swords that can have 5+ FNP and/or 3 attack with wound rerolls in a tough scrap. That's befitting of the title Sword Brethren. 2 of those squads and Helbrecht alone would be able to wreak carnage. They won't swipe a whole army off the board, but they'll chop up a lot of gribblies or hold the line like a proper shield wall, all for the price of a measly 350 points. Alongside the big boss, 5 Sword Brethren of that build can dish out 16 Str 5 AP-3 attacks with wound and hit re-rolls. That's...not small. And thanks to redmapa's point, I just realized I once again have a use for my 3 lancer bikers and their relic blade biker marshal Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351445-bt-confirmed-on-vigilus/page/6/#findComment-5210400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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