BT confirmed on Vigilus

[RedFox]

Company vets only have 1 wound (not to be confused with 2 wounds honor guards).

 

Also can CPs gained from a IG detachment be used on SM stratagem? Is that still a thing?

[Firepower]

Company vets only have 1 wound (not to be confused with 2 wounds honor guards).

 

 

You're right, hit the wrong button on battlescribe   Still, fairly durable with 3++ and 5+ FNP.

 

My biggest gripe is that I need more arms, shoulders, and I'll have to paint even more damn power weapons.  Purple is a mean mother to paint, no mistake. :P

[balordazul]

I can't recall but what does an apothecary do now and if he is counted as a vet still?  Will it be worth adding him into the mix or will the +5 FNP be canceled by his ability?

 

I'm not a huge fan of the CP system vs just adding a static small boost to a unit or two as it just feels overly designed and messy. 

 

But on the up side YAY for BT as this is the first sign in years that GW has a clue about the flavor of this army and why the codex had a following.  This could be the start of something good and that the development team is hearing the community a bit more.

[Marshal Vespasian]

Thats how I can finally do non-:cussty lance-bikers, Thank you brother.

[Firepower]

The Apothecary doesn't have the necessary keyword for the detachment, no.  The Narthecium ability adds wounds/revives units.  So far as I know, that does not interfere with or replace the FNP roll.

[Acebaur]

The apoc heals D3 wounds or revives a guy on a 4+

 

The great thing about these strats is that if you don't need it you don't have to spend it. Maybe you'll murder thst unit anyway and so you can can save the CP. Maybe it's something harder and you need to spend it.

[Sete]

No one thinks it's weird no Lieutenants on the Detachment as an option?

[balordazul]

No one thinks it's weird no Lieutenants on the Detachment as an option?

That would require a dedicated person to really flush out and think out the data sheet.  Also the likely hood that they have played BT or played it in the original form outside of play testing or theory crafting is unlikely.  

 

Even with oversights or any goofiness this is a great step in the right direction.

[AlmightyWalrus]

Terminators really should be in there too,no?

 

Regardless it's a step in the right direction. It's a small step, sure, but a good one regardless. Storm Bolter/Chainsword Sword Brethren backed up by Helbrecht gets four shots with rerolls to hit each and then, with the stratagem, four attacks each at S5 with rerolls to everything. That'll thin out a horde pretty fast I reckon.

 

In fact, when backed up by Helbrecht, double-chainsword Veterans aren't too far from Khorne Berzerkers in damage output vs. MEQ targets. Admittedly that still requires us to pay CP and bring Helbrecht, so nowhere near as self-sustained, but still.

[balordazul]

Well on release day we can send in to the GW rules email and community email a list of units what should have been included in the sword brethren list.  Also, thanking them for really embodying the spirt of what drew many gamers to this army in the first place.

 

I have gotten fairly positive responses in the past with the correct application of kindness and pleasantries.  

[Firepower]

The greatest mistake GW made here is giving me a new reason not to buy Primaris, and just as I was eyeing that Fist box as well.  The fools! 

[Sete]

 

 

No one thinks it's weird no Lieutenants on the Detachment as an option?

That would require a dedicated person to really flush out and think out the data sheet. Also the likely hood that they have played BT or played it in the original form outside of play testing or theory crafting is unlikely.

 

Even with oversights or any goofiness this is a great step in the right direction.

Sent an Email to the 40k faq team, asking the situation to be addressed. After all it makes little sense to not have them.

[Marshal Arthur]

Honestly, I think the exclusion of lieutenants is because they felt it was unnecessary. With the strat allowing reroll of all wounds a lieutenant isn’t as necessary. That said it would make sense to include them for fluff purposes. Overall I’m happy with it, and now have a reason to run Helbrecht. My only gripe is I just gave all my melee vets jump packs to make vanguard.

[Schlitzaf]

So looking over the formation let’s start with the good;

Warlord Trait - easily best part of the formation. Bar none. Main question is it worth the 1CP? I’d say aye. Just look at Death Visions and Slamganius.

Strategems - These are only as good as the units you use them on. I’ll talk about this more later. Main aspects here, the 1CP Damage Reduction. Some important aspects here. Remember we can stack the strategem with Company Veterans. One little trick is using 6+ FNP WT then using 2+ Bodygaurd and popping 5+ FNP on Company.

 

Once again depending on how, you can use it on the character model or the actual Company Veterans. And given the formation calls for Company Veterans this was a likely intended interaction.

 

2CP, +1 Attack and Reroll Wound. A mix of amazing and garbage for reasons I’ll explain later. First is once again our comparison here. Slamganius, gets for 1CP, 1d3 extra attacks but no rerolls to wound. (But has +1 Wound modifier). Now unlike Slammy we can use it on Company Veteran Squads. Here is some important aspects of this.

 

Something to stress again, one aspect of our army is that we reduce our buffer reliance with Helm already. But having it take up similar amount of space to two buffers.

 

These is important for deep strikers as you no longer need a second liutanent. Now something you all might have noticed I have mostly compared ours Strategems to Slamganius. And rarely mentioned the actual Sword Brothern.

 

The Ugly;

EChampion, Helbrect and Marshalls of various stripes getting the these buffs are amazing. The actual Company Veterans getting these buffs? Raging pile of manure. The biggest issue is that the squads needed to be larger. The small 5ish man melee Squads are bad.

 

They are better used as cheap ablative wounds for our characters. Maybe one power sword on Sargent. But keeping them dirt cheap with perhaps StormBolter/StormShield is the name of the game. Through that said, makes FW Templar Brothern 8 billion storm shields useful.

 

The meh; Relic. The Hand Grenade is basically a 2CP for a smite. How valuable you find that? I have no idea. But not 2CP worth. If you hit a 10+ squad its 2 Smite, at 20+ it’s worth the 2CP. The reason I say 2CP is Helm is an amazing relic never leave home without. And Teeth is a relic that turns a regular character into a killer. Meaning this relic is basically because I can Relic

[Marshal Wolfhart]

Maybe they didn't even consider rules as the drive for these specialist detachments, but rather the story of the vigilus campaign book. That would explain why not every single unit we would all love to have in there isn't included. But as Arthur said, this gives me hope that someone in the design team knows we're there and has an understanding what we want (as far as what we want can be defined without honor duels :P)

[Acebaur]

Honestly, I think the exclusion of lieutenants is because they felt it was unnecessary. With the strat allowing reroll of all wounds a lieutenant isn’t as necessary. That said it would make sense to include them for fluff purposes. Overall I’m happy with it, and now have a reason to run Helbrecht. My only gripe is I just gave all my melee vets jump packs to make vanguard.

That's why I magnetized my VV :D

[AlmightyWalrus]

It's not gonna be competetive, but with Helbrecht nearby a 5-man Sword Brethren Squad with Thunder Hammers deal on average 26.666... wounds to a Knight with the Suffer Not the Unclean stratagem in one turn of fighting.

 

That's what I call ZEAL!

[balordazul]

Hmmm I don't see it in the detachment but I hope there is something else there in the book that lets Helbrecht replace his warlord trait with that one.  Wishful thinking but sweet sweet dreams of ZEAL it is.  

[AlmightyWalrus]

You can use 1 CP to buy the Formation Warlord trait for a Character in the detachment who is not already your Warlord, but if you do your actual warlord cannot have that trait. All you'd have to do would be to have someone else be Warlord and buy the formation trait for Helbrecht.

[Acebaur]

You can use 1 CP to buy the Formation Warlord trait for a Character in the detachment who is not already your Warlord, but if you do your actual warlord cannot have that trait. All you'd have to do would be to have someone else be Warlord and buy the formation trait for Helbrecht.

Also takes the target off of Helbrecht for Slay the Warlord

[balordazul]

I feel really silly and can someone please point out where you can buy another warlord trait for CP?  

 

I love the idea but feel like a goof for not knowing of a stratagem like that.  

 

I see how you buy the 1cp to sword brethren but I don't see how you can assign Sword Master to a non warlord model.

[Marshal Arthur]

It’s a new stratagem included in the campaign book. It’s not unique to the Templar formation. Right now I’m thinking of making a small assault team with Helbrecht, the champion, and a vet squad with hammers all in rhino. Rush them towards whatever big scary target my opponent has and hopefully bring it down with the strat

[Marshal Arthur]

With the price drop on power fists has anyone considered running power fist sword brethren?

[arigatous]

It’s a new stratagem included in the campaign book.

It can not be used on named characters.

[Firepower]

 

You can use 1 CP to buy the Formation Warlord trait for a Character in the detachment who is not already your Warlord, but if you do your actual warlord cannot have that trait. All you'd have to do would be to have someone else be Warlord and buy the formation trait for Helbrecht.

Also takes the target off of Helbrecht for Slay the Warlord

 

 

So 1 CP to make Helbrecht and his posse Sword Brethren, then another CP to let Helbrecht have the accompanied Warlord trait?  This stuff really is pricey.  

 

Still, I really just wanna see what the Champion can manage kill with that trait!  6 Str 7 (8 if next to Helbrecht!) AP-3 D3 wound hits, hitting twice on every 6.  Roll him with Grimaldus if your dice really seem to like the number 6

 

I have to agree that the Holy Orb isn't great, but it's the best gesture of the lot, something that would've taken a tiny bit more knowledge of Templars than the surface skimming that lead to recent iterations of our fluff and rules.  I'm not  throwing in my lot with the "See?  GW cares about us!" argument, but the orb is a sign that some one actually took a little time to look at the Templars before sitting down at the keyboard.

 

As for the stratagem's power/usage, it's far from a huge game changer, but lends itself well to my favored old tactic- a big pile of whoopass vomited into the front lines by a violently ill LRC.  Or I guess a Pod, if you prefer.  One big hammer blow, and then see where things stand afterward.   It would be better if it could be used on a unit of 10 rather than 5, sure.  But 5 is still more than 0.