Finkmilkana Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 They seem too cheap and the vindicaires headshot rule ouch. Seems cowardly to field him casually lol. The eversor seems like a barrel of laughs though.I really do not understand why people claim the vindicare is the most ‘unfair’ of the bunch. He kinda seems to still be worst by some margin. He has a more than 40% chance to do nothing at all against his primary target in a given round and still still deals less than 2 damage on average. Even if he manages to wound, it’s only 2.3 damage and an average of 1 MW. I mean that’s not bad, and he has an ok chance to oneshot squishy characters if he is lucky. But it’s not really much better than what the same amount of points of for example the ad mech snipers can do. This feels like the release of 8th all over again, where at first people said ‘oh my god, the vindicare is op’ and then once they tried it they noticed ‘no, he really is not’. I mean, he is clearly better now, but so are most other units in the game. I don’t see him making much of an impact. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5258721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfpint100 Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 The eversor looks the best IMO. He was good at 70 points and with the blender rule. He is well worth 85 points. As with all of these guys. They would work better in pairs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5258725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWolfLord Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Cypher and Fallen have both IMPERIUM and CHAOS. What they don't have is ADETUS ASTARTES or HERETICUS ASTARTES. They need to be in their own Vanguard detachment to comply with Battle Brothers as they all have the FALLEN keyword. So long as your other detachments have CHAOS the army is battleforged and so long as Cypher is your warlord you have access to the Assassin strategems due to him having IMPERIUM. You couldn't take any Assassins on your roster without breaking the battleforged nature of the army since they themselves don't have CHAOS but you can use the strategem and reserve points to add a single Assassin to a Chaos force. Unless they have once again forgotten to take Fallen into account with rules writing and others FAQed later.Your army would still be battleforged so you’d still get the bonuses in Open or Narrative play. In matched play there’s an addition rule that all units share a keyword, this is not part of the battleforged rule. So illegal in matched play but fine in other game modes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5258730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothical Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Eversor and Culexus seem to be the most useful to me. Blendering screens and support units for the former, stopping competitive lynchpins dead in their tracks with the latter thanks to the penalty to manifest powers, not to mention killing potential. The stratagems for the Culexus are great too The Vindicare has some very good rules, but the randomised damage means he can seriously fluff his rolls something awful. I think he will have a big game impact though via people trying to avoid him getting a bead on their characters because of what he could do rather than what he's likely to do. Still unsure about the Callidus. I guess she's a melee-version of the Vindicare that also has additional utility by potentially mucking up an opponent's stratagems. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5258733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostglaive Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Eversor and Culexus seem to be the most useful to me. Blendering screens and support units for the former, stopping competitive lynchpins dead in their tracks with the latter thanks to the penalty to manifest powers, not to mention killing potential. The stratagems for the Culexus are great too The Vindicare has some very good rules, but the randomised damage means he can seriously fluff his rolls something awful. I think he will have a big game impact though via people trying to avoid him getting a bead on their characters because of what he could do rather than what he's likely to do. Still unsure about the Callidus. I guess she's a melee-version of the Vindicare that also has additional utility by potentially mucking up an opponent's stratagems. More often than not, when I brought my Vindicare(s), their psychological effect in the game did more damage than their actual shooting. Especially against opponents that seriously rely on their characters (like Guard for example). It's either caused my opponents to focus fire on the Vindicares when they were able (saving my other, more effective models from being shot at), forced characters to stay back and lessen the effect of their aura abilities, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5258747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 The Vindicare may be the best option for a Primary Threat Neutralized CP generator, as he can sit back and pop a weak Character each turn in relative safety. That being said, I'm looking forward to finally painting my Vanguard Detachment of Culexus Assassins. Maybe with some converted Sisters to Silence as Temple neophytes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5258753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
H311fi5h Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I just love the amount of tactical flexibility Imperium players are gaining here. Playing Thousand Sons or Eldar? The Culexus is going to throw a wrench in their plan. Particularly stopping Doom from getting onto high value targets such as a Castellan is super powerful. The Vindicare is going to hurt Tau players so hard, easily picking of Firesight Marksman and generating CP in the process. The Eversor will be an amazing defensive tool for gunline armies. Often a squad of 20 Genestealers moving 40" will try to get deep into your lines, surrounding some models so you can't fall back and shoot them. Orks generally try to do the same. Then these large units pile into all your shooty stuff. A single Eversor will do invaluable work cleaning up all the things that you can't kill by shooting. I'm just not sure when exactly you would pick the Callidus over the other choices. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5258771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
THUNDERFISTS Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Question - can we still use the 3 assassin detachment with no HQ for no CP? These leaks stipulate a detachment with one of each assassins under similar circumstances. Off the cuff I can’t remember where that first detachment originated, maybe CA17? Just want to make sure it isn’t being superseded here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5258775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Question - can we still use the 3 assassin detachment with no HQ for no CP? These leaks stipulate a detachment with one of each assassins under similar circumstances. Off the cuff I can’t remember where that first detachment originated, maybe CA17? Just want to make sure it isn’t being superseded here. Yes, it looks like you still can. The leaks don't change the current rules, they just add to them it seems. It states you can bring them in a Vanguard detachment that does not include an HQ, but the command benefits become none unless you bring all 4. That last part is new. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5258810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Master Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Time to bring them out of retirement http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b606/Dark_master1/0BD8D3AA-9F70-4E78-89F1-7650B038B6AF_zpsnbq0y5wd.jpg DM Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5258825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfpint100 Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Was posted in the guard forum. But the cullexus now affects all psykers within 18". Including your own Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5258959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttoVonAwesome Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 They seem too cheap and the vindicaires headshot rule ouch. Seems cowardly to field him casually lol. The eversor seems like a barrel of laughs though.I really do not understand why people claim the vindicare is the most ‘unfair’ of the bunch. He kinda seems to still be worst by some margin. He has a more than 40% chance to do nothing at all against his primary target in a given round and still still deals less than 2 damage on average. Even if he manages to wound, it’s only 2.3 damage and an average of 1 MW. I mean that’s not bad, and he has an ok chance to oneshot squishy characters if he is lucky. But it’s not really much better than what the same amount of points of for example the ad mech snipers can do. This feels like the release of 8th all over again, where at first people said ‘oh my god, the vindicare is op’ and then once they tried it they noticed ‘no, he really is not’. I mean, he is clearly better now, but so are most other units in the game. I don’t see him making much of an impact. It's the squishy ones I feel bad for especially with those strategems and unlike other sniper squads that can be openly targeted he possesses the character keyword on top of stealth suit. I don't think he's op but I do think he's kinda cheesy and is gonna grief opponents more than the others. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5258968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wassa Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I'm happy with the Vindicare. As a guard player, I was annoyed that every squishie character had to avoid being in the open due to 2pt sniper rifles that wounded on 3+, and only had to dodge a 5+ save. Space marine players always had their characters out in the open and sniper rifles were near to useless having to wound on 4+/ 5+, and had to dodge a 2+/3+ save. Now they can join the rest of us and worry about snipers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5258977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 As for saving SM characters from Vindicare shots... company vets with bolters are crazy cheap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5259000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 As for saving SM characters from Vindicare shots... company vets with bolters are crazy cheap. How many vets you gonna take lol? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5259011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 As many as it takes? 85/170/255 (?) Not exactly chump change, and could get CP intensive especially the Vindicare when taking on Characters with body guards that can soak the character's wounds. I see these more a Guard, or Knight addition than Astartes. Marines, especially Primaris are expensive enough to begin with and I have I'm sure to be dashed hopes The Eliminators can hold there own point for point to the Vindicare. Mind you I'll grab a pair of Vindicare at some point for the reason I have a pair of Sentry Guns ... cool factor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5259015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 They can certainly join regular marines. They've got nothing better to spend CP on... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5259114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hantheman Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 They can certainly join regular marines. They've got nothing better to spend CP on... Hey I have at least two stratagems that are good for the first legion!...... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5259132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Actually I'd say there are enough ways to spend CP for how limited the CP pool in a pure Marine army is. Hellfire Shells, Masterful Marksmanship, an extra relic, Auspex Scan, Honour the Chapter (for Vanguard Veterans and TH Captains), Wisdom of the Ancients, Only in death does duty end (again for VV and TH Captains) and various specialist Detachments from Vigilus 1 is what instantly comes to my mind. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5259138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wassa Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 How would you use the 1CP strategem to bring an assassin on the fly, if you didn't have an assassin detachment to unlock the strategems in the first place? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5259144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 How would you use the 1CP strategem to bring an assassin on the fly, if you didn't have an assassin detachment to unlock the strategems in the first place? The leak clearly says that you only need an IMPERIUM detachment to access the Stratagems. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5259156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 They can certainly join regular marines. They've got nothing better to spend CP on... Hey I have at least two stratagems that are good for the first legion!...... BA, DA, DW have good strats. The basic codex... Beyond the Raven Guard, not so much. How would you use the 1CP strategem to bring an assassin on the fly, if you didn't have an assassin detachment to unlock the strategems in the first place? The Assassin you bring in by spending a CP isn't a seperate detachment under the new rules, but on the fly re-enforcement for your primary detachment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5259160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Here's hoping that Eliminators will be good enough that you actually don't feel the need to proxy them as vindicare's... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5259166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Time to bring them out of retirement *snip* DM I love the old assassin models, wish I had more of them but I only have the other Eversor model where he's holding some poor sods head and has his power sword out :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5259172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Here's hoping that Eliminators will be good enough that you actually don't feel the need to proxy them as vindicare's... I don't think they stand a chance to be as good as Vindicare, but I'd still buy them for a fluffy way to include the rules. Also probably kitbash myself primaris proxies for other clades, hm. And if by chance they are in fact good enough - I'll field both of them for more sniper dakka! :v Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353328-index-imperialis-assassins-in-march/page/5/#findComment-5259177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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