Index Imperialis: Assassins in March

[Wassa]

 

 

I love the old assassin models, wish I had more of them but I only have the other Eversor model where he's holding some poor sods head and has his power sword out

 

 

 

I still have the ancient metal generic assassin model. Looks mostly like an Evesor though.

 

I'm hunting for another old metal vindicare, the one where hes actually posed like he's aiming and has his foot on a skull. My current one has a wobbly barrel!

[Feral_80]

I quite like these rules but still I cannot see where the Vindicare is supposed to be anywhere near 'good'.

 

He is survivable and can pose a psychological threat. But powerful? Come on. He is not, period. His damage output is simply modest, and way too random to be dependable. He is king of unreliability.

 

Exactly what a top sniper should *not* be, actually.

 

Apart from that, it will be fun to see some Assassins back to the game. Eversor seems to be the funniest of the bunch so far. The only 'good' way to include one is the stratagem, of course.

[Slasher956]

I have 4 assassins (one of each temple) so with the cost changes & the CP change to the execution force I'm happy....

 

Even happier as it now makes sense for me to add them back into my Sisters list to help with two things they struggle with i) snipping enemy characters ii) getting that needed charge off to shut down a long ranged unit.

[Charlo]

Looooovely rules, feel somewhat balanced too. Sure there is potential for all of them to be powerful, but what units aren't?

 

Definitely the update that Assassins deserved - 85pts and 1CP might even be worth saving in my Custodes to use!

 

IG obviously the most benefiting from these guys though, as they have an abundance of CP to spend and can certainly spare some points.

[Wassa]

I quite like these rules but still I cannot see where the Vindicare is supposed to be anywhere near 'good'.

 

But powerful? Come on. He is not, period. His damage output is simply modest, and way too random to be dependable. He is king of unreliability.

 

Exactly what a top sniper should *not* be, actually.

 

 

It's potentially now the best long range anti character unit in the game.

 

 

The problem with warhammer is that it's limited by D6. Space marines are elite super human trained soldiers, but they still miss 1/3 of their shots. Rather than make Vindicares automatically hit and wounds they give it 2+ which is pretty much the best they can do.

[Feral_80]

Which, exactly for the reason you mentioned, means he sucks. Sorry but that's inevitable when you have a 1-shot weapon with no in-built rerolls, in a d6 system.

 

Sure you can be very lucky and 1-shot a 300-pts uber character with it. But on average, and much more realistically, over 6 turns he'll just struggle to repay his pts cost in kills, even by targeting 30-pts AM officers.

[Ishagu]

He always hits on a 2.

 

He'll kill AM characters and Eldar/DE buff characters. Very useful. They've typically got 4/5 wounds

 

Remember you DON'T have to lock him into a list. That's the flexibility. Opponent has no weak support HQs? Bring a different assassin.

[Wassa]

He’s not worth it for AM characters, a squad of ratlings would be much more efficient.

 

But for marines with 2+/3++ saves... he’s what you want.

[Feral_80]

Ishagu, he won't kill any of those reliably. Otherwise, you are right: as I said, that stratagem is the only good way to use assassins.

 

But here we are talking about tactical flexibility and psychological threat: two important aspects of the game which, however, are very different from reliable damage output. Strangely, however, the latter is what many seem exceedingly excited about the Vindicare, but sadly that is exactly what he lacks.

[Ishagu]

Oh yeah, you gotta use the strats. Over two turns you'll shoot 4 times at two targets. That's fine.

[The Spanish Inquisitor]

Often a squad of 20 Genestealers moving 40" will try to get deep into your lines, surrounding some models so you can't fall back and shoot them. Orks generally try to do the same. Then these large units pile into all your shooty stuff.

Since the release of Cult Genestealers codex, large squads of Genestealers are sooo 2018 though ;).

 

I am glad for my Black Templars, it’s been a long time they haven’t fought witches with their best buddy the Culexus.

[Closet Skeleton]

 

Here's hoping that Eliminators will be good enough that you actually don't feel the need to proxy them as vindicare's...

I don't think they stand a chance to be as good as Vindicare, but I'd still buy them for a fluffy way to include the rules. Also probably kitbash myself primaris proxies for other clades, hm.

 

And if by chance they are in fact good enough - I'll field both of them for more sniper dakka! :v

 

 

Black Templar snipers are way less fluffy than a Vindicare showing up in the middle of a crusade.

[newdigitalGK]

Ishagu, he won't kill any of those reliably. Otherwise, you are right: as I said, that stratagem is the only good way to use assassins.

 

But here we are talking about tactical flexibility and psychological threat: two important aspects of the game which, however, are very different from reliable damage output. Strangely, however, the latter is what many seem exceedingly excited about the Vindicare, but sadly that is exactly what he lacks.

So just so I'm understanding the only way a single shot weapon is worth it is if it's auto hit and an auto un-savable  wound that causes 6 damage? Or you want a sniper with a machine gun spewing out 30 shots not sure which.

[Panzer]

Seriously, a character with a 72" single shot gun that can target enemy characters, hits on 2+, ignores hit modifiers if he didn't move, wounds infantry on a 2+ regardless of their toughness, ignores most armour or reduces it to a degree where it doesn't matter, ignores invulnerable saves, ignores cover and doing 1d3 damage is good enough for me for 85p. The fact that he deals 1d6 damage on 6s on the to-wound roll and can deal additional mortal wounds on a 3+/4+/5+/6+ if the target survived so far is just the cherry on the top.

If he would actually kill his target reliably with that one shot he would be broken as hell. With some luck he can kill his target in two rounds on his own and otherwise he can easily pick up wounded characters and make the enemy play more carefully than he'd like to by just wounding enemy characters since it makes it more likely for the character to actually die the next time something shoots at him which the enemy would want to avoid.

[CommodusXIII]

There's a ~10 year gap in my experience, but I don't remember a time when the Vindicare could ever reliably kill a Character in one shot, other than a squad leader. There has always been a disconnect between their lore/propaganda and their abilities on the table. As with almost everything else.

 

Now, pretty much all of his special ammunition is rolled into his base attack/abilities. He's the most effective that he's ever been, to my knowledge, and also the cheapest.

 

This seems like a gift horse that I don't want to look in the mouth.

[Ishagu]

He is swingy. You might deal 5 wounds in one shot, you might deal 1 or none.

 

Will require some play, and also it depends on the volume of CP you have available.

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

interesting. i didn't know this was happening in march.

 

a mini codex for assassin would be good.

[bluntpencil]

He’s not worth it for AM characters, a squad of ratlings would be much more efficient.

 

But for marines with 2+/3++ saves... he’s what you want.

But Vindicares can earn CP for every character killed. And besides, take two, and you're killing a character a turn quite easily, getting CP back for each one.

[Slasher956]

The other thing to note is that the assassins strat for gaining CP is not impacted by the Tactical Restraint Rule

 

 

 

Also note that this does not apply to Command Points that are gained or refunded as specifically instructed on Stratagems

[Wassa]

Ooh handy. I was wondering about that

[HandsWithLegs]

So here's a question, could you get around the battle forged issue by having Cypher be your warlord and using the stratigum to get one? The original list would still follow the battle forged rule and Cypher would give you access to the stratigums 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yes

[Kastor Krieg]

 

 

Here's hoping that Eliminators will be good enough that you actually don't feel the need to proxy them as vindicare's...

I don't think they stand a chance to be as good as Vindicare, but I'd still buy them for a fluffy way to include the rules. Also probably kitbash myself primaris proxies for other clades, hm.

 

And if by chance they are in fact good enough - I'll field both of them for more sniper dakka! :v

 

 

Black Templar snipers are way less fluffy than a Vindicare showing up in the middle of a crusade.

"Fluffy for Templars". Just... don't go there, please. I'll decide for my army, thanks.

[DanPesci]

All seem decent. With CP excellent.

 

The ability to model up all 4 and leave an 85 point gap + 1CP to choose which you want during deployment is fantastic - or infuriating depending what side your are on :)

 

and lets face it, smart financial move from GW to shift packs of all 4.

 

Id expect this to become fairly popular. Very tempted to kitbash some for my admech as they'll certainly fill some gaps.

[Mekhitar]

Back in the days of true soup, I used to add an inquisitor and a vindicare into my sisters list (as there were no strats or order traits to disrupt).

 

I’m happy to take him off the shelf again :)