Charlo Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Really hoping that they gave Abaddon a bit of a fix. He was pretty bad right from the beginning when Book 1 was released, and badly needs a tweak. Very doubtful. He'll no doubt get a revisit when SoH are covered again with some luck. Erm, why would it be very doubtful? If they're going back and giving characters like Sigismund a tweak when no book on the Imperial Fists is in sight, why on earth not Abaddon? Terrible logic. Have they confirmed Sigismund is getting a rules update? Didn't know he was but if so then Abaddon could be looked at I suppose. ALSO RE the Consuls, the Warmonger confers Deep Strike to himself and a Unit (YES!) to represent Spear-tip operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Really hoping that they gave Abaddon a bit of a fix. He was pretty bad right from the beginning when Book 1 was released, and badly needs a tweak. Very doubtful. He'll no doubt get a revisit when SoH are covered again with some luck. Erm, why would it be very doubtful? If they're going back and giving characters like Sigismund a tweak when no book on the Imperial Fists is in sight, why on earth not Abaddon? Terrible logic. Have they confirmed Sigismund is getting a rules update? Didn't know he was but if so then Abaddon could be looked at I suppose. ALSO RE the Consuls, the Warmonger confers Deep Strike to himself and a Unit (YES!) to represent Spear-tip operations. I heard from multiple people (but not from Anuj/Neil's mouths directly) at the event that supposedly looked over the FAQ that Sigismund and Magnus were both getting toned down quite a bit. Both were considered to be punching so far above their weight class that people refuse to face them in their current state (including in one of the official test groups). They're supposed to be REALLY good, but the rules writers felt they were a bit of runaway trains that needed to be pulled back a bit (2nd hand information). @Marshal Loss the logic between updating A vs B comes down to fixing a leaky pipe vs putting in some newer pipes because their more efficient on your water bill. They will consider revisiting characters/factions if/when the narrative provides the elbow room to do so, but they will prioritize things that need truly fixing like Sigismund and Magnus supposedly did. Also, as a philosophy, they have said that moving forward they always prefer to buff something than nerf it whenever they can, and thus tend to err on the side of caution. Some previous units/models/abilities fell through the cracks of that philosophy and as such may get some nerfing to control power creep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Wait, what’s wrong with Sigismund? He’s a solid beat stick with some flavorful rules? Or is he too good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCelticRaven Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Wait, what’s wrong with Sigismund? He’s a solid beat stick with some flavorful rules? Or is he too good? i think they want to tone him back from being able to stomp the weaker primarchs like lorgar. make sure that even the weakest of the emps sons are in a league of their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taliesin Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Summary from Garro as well: https://www.facebook.com/notes/garro/hh-weekender-2019-info-dump-part-1/2162000850487166/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Wait, what’s wrong with Sigismund? He’s a solid beat stick with some flavorful rules? Or is he too good? I imagine it'll be removing the reroll saved invulnerables tbh. Remove that and he's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 I don’t know why but the Emperor with a baseline human profile and then insane special rules feels right to me.I second that. Maybe good WS (for a human), but he is not augmented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Wait, what’s wrong with Sigismund? He’s a solid beat stick with some flavorful rules? Or is he too good? i think they want to tone him back from being able to stomp the weaker primarchs like lorgar. make sure that even the weakest of the emps sons are in a league of their own Uh, lorgar is one of the strongest primarchs, especially with prescience. His concussive mace, complete rerolls, 4++, and forcing rerolls make him one of the best duelists. Sigi can hammer corax because of the equal ws and 5++ (granted double stacking -1 tips it to corax), ferrus, alpharius and possibly mortarion and vulkan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Wait, what’s wrong with Sigismund? He’s a solid beat stick with some flavorful rules? Or is he too good?i think they want to tone him back from being able to stomp the weaker primarchs like lorgar. make sure that even the weakest of the emps sons are in a league of their own Uh, lorgar is one of the strongest primarchs, especially with prescience. His concussive mace, complete rerolls, 4++, and forcing rerolls make him one of the best duelists. Sigi can hammer corax because of the equal ws and 5++ (granted double stacking -1 tips it to corax), ferrus, alpharius and possibly mortarion and vulkan They meant Lorgar without Transfigured which, honestly, nobody in their right mind takes anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Wouldn't a better solution be to make part of the Primarch rules a debuff to the stats of their opponent? That way Sig could stay badass, but the Primarchs just reduce the effectiveness of beatstick characters. Like anyone who fights with a Primarch with the independent character special rule loses 1 to their WS and I characteristic. I'm not a rules guy so you could pick the ways to debuff better than I could but its just a thought that lets some characters be solid, but not better than Primarchs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Well the thing with the less beatsticky primarchs is that they have other things going for them. Ferrus has ranged support and makes his army even more durable; mortarion is very fast for a primarch and cuts down units of anything; vulkan is tanky in of himself and does aoe damage. Sigismund by contrast is only a beatstick, and only for duels. A normal praetor can do his job better on units. It's just that the primarchs that have a low number of attacks and WS 7 don't do very well in a duel against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queen_annes_revenge Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 the FW guys dismissed the concept of starter boxes in plastic when asked about mk2 in the seminars. said that with their resin products being aimed at the more mature gamer/modeller, the start collecting boxes are more GW domain. Doesn't that go against the post on the previous page? Was it a "dismissal" or a "wink wink"??? Clarification needed as I went from "elated" to "depressed" in the span of 30 seconds. I'd certainly vote with my wallet if we got plastic Mark II. An entire White Scars army (and possibly DA eventually too) would inevitably follow - armies I'm not going to do if Mark II isn't readily available. This for me as well. GW even went as far as to say that Calth and Prospero were some of their best selling boxes so I have real trouble understanding why they were done away with. I'll be honest, before this weekender showing actual progress on the HH line I honestly thought that both GW and FW were actively sabotaging it or trying to softly dip out of the game. I hope to see more progress in the future as I am a huge Heresy fan and would like an excuse to spend money on FW again. I was the one who asked Tony about mkII. It was neither dismissal or wink wink. He accepted it was a gap in the range that needed to be looked at but gave nothing else away. I also asked about a return of legion specific torsos but his response to that was noncommittal it sounded to me like they were saying that start collecting plastic kits are more GW than FW. have FW ever released anything plastic? I'm fairly new to them in the grand scheme but i thought they only made resin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 *snip* it sounded to me like they were saying that start collecting plastic kits are more GW than FW. have FW ever released anything plastic? I'm fairly new to them in the grand scheme but i thought they only made resin. Titanicus and Necromunda are technically FW products due to being Specialist games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Magnus definitely needs a cheaper option for more casual play. Many people (and rightly so) don't want to fight D Novas covering the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 @ Indefragable "not opposed to making rules for popular characters that they have not already (like Azkaellon or Jubal Khan). The issue is that characters have to fit into the narrative" A bunch of these characters would easily fit into the Siege narrative(s). Jubal and Azkaellon surely, as well as others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tholath Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 How do people thing FW will get people into HH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranwulf Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Wait, what’s wrong with Sigismund? He’s a solid beat stick with some flavorful rules? Or is he too good? i think they want to tone him back from being able to stomp the weaker primarchs like lorgar. make sure that even the weakest of the emps sons are in a league of their own More surprised anyone uses Lorgar outside his transfigured form. Ran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrowmaster Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 How do people thing FW will get people into HH? I believe from FW's point of view the HH setting is for experienced or older gamers who have the disposable income to spend on their products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Polo Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 New F&Q, interesting... Since Malevolence allegedly contains new consuls and units for every legion (much hype here)... what do you guys think is coming? From what people have said: Consuls: Artificer - Master Crafts Heavy Weapons in Squads Warmonger - Between a Centurion and Preator Keeper of the Dead - Like a Praevian for but Dreadnoughts Two types of Psyker Consuls - one is definately "anti-psyker" The Warmonger supposedly grants the unti he is attached to the ability to Deep Strike. Sounds like a pretty appealing choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tholath Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 How do people thing FW will get people into HH? I believe from FW's point of view the HH setting is for experienced or older gamers who have the disposable income to spend on their products. But did they say they were trying to work out how to help help get more people in? I saw something that they said that Start Collecting Set weren't really 30K but they were looking at something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 maybe for the occassional narrative game . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritual Liege Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Wait, what’s wrong with Sigismund? He’s a solid beat stick with some flavorful rules? Or is he too good? i think they want to tone him back from being able to stomp the weaker primarchs like lorgar. make sure that even the weakest of the emps sons are in a league of their own More surprised anyone uses Lorgar outside his transfigured form. Ran No one does, but that's besides the point. The point is that no legionary, no matter how badass should be able to win a Primarch in a fair 1v1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 So who all is planning on using AoS models as Daemons? I'm salivating at the idea of using Nighthaunt and Chaos Warriors and alternate Plaguebearers and Blood Letters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 @Marshal Loss the logic between updating A vs B comes down to fixing a leaky pipe vs putting in some newer pipes because their more efficient on your water bill. They will consider revisiting characters/factions if/when the narrative provides the elbow room to do so, but they will prioritize things that need truly fixing like Sigismund and Magnus supposedly did. Also, as a philosophy, they have said that moving forward they always prefer to buff something than nerf it whenever they can, and thus tend to err on the side of caution. Some previous units/models/abilities fell through the cracks of that philosophy and as such may get some nerfing to control power creep. Actually, having looked around the dark depths of the internet, the FAQ is far more broad than that logic would imply. WB's Ashen Circle, Mhara Gal & Zardu Layak, for example, are all receiving changes: hardly three units that can be classified as "leaky pipes". I suspect there are many more changes to units and characters that we are not currently aware of. What they told you would seem to refer more to actual revamps and comprehensive changes rather than tweaking. (Ironically, as an aside, I found a post by Anuj in mid 2018 stating that "Sigismund is definitely not OP". ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Wait, what’s wrong with Sigismund? He’s a solid beat stick with some flavorful rules? Or is he too good? i think they want to tone him back from being able to stomp the weaker primarchs like lorgar. make sure that even the weakest of the emps sons are in a league of their own More surprised anyone uses Lorgar outside his transfigured form. Ran No one does, but that's besides the point. The point is that no legionary, no matter how badass should be able to win a Primarch in a fair 1v1. Thats more a symptom of this being a game and, realistically, Siggy doesnt actually win a 1v1 vs unbuffed Lorgar; he only has a chance because of Eternal Warrior meaning he doesnt get instakilled by Illuminarium unlike literally all other un-EW'd characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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