++A Cloak of Foes Felled++ Thunder Warriors in 30k

[ranulf the revenant]

Again, really cool. Do you plan on playing them in some way? Like, with Custodes rules for Kill Team or something like that?

[Mr Yellow]

I always thought the slaughter priest model would make a useful base for TW, just right scale wise in my eyes. You've certainly proved me right.

 

Your first model is really good, certainly the closest to my vision of TW I've seen to date, your sculpting skills are clearly up to the job too. To be honest, it's all very impressive, I'm jealous!

 

The only thing I would say, and it's not criticism just personal taste, the last bunch of models you have produced are starting to look a bit too clean for TW. They look more like custodes to me, I think you should stick with the slightly rougher and readier look that your Tattered Prince is rocking.

 

Keep it up.

 

Cheers

LM

[TheTrans]

Again, really cool. Do you plan on playing them in some way? Like, with Custodes rules for Kill Team or something like that?

Thanks mate!

 

Yeah they will be Chimerae Black Shields leading an Army of Dark Compliance in 30k. Custodes, or maybe an army of meanobz would be the closest thing in 40k I'd imagine.

 

I always thought the slaughter priest model would make a useful base for TW, just right scale wise in my eyes. You've certainly proved me right.

 

Your first model is really good, certainly the closest to my vision of TW I've seen to date, your sculpting skills are clearly up to the job too. To be honest, it's all very impressive, I'm jealous!

 

The only thing I would say, and it's not criticism just personal taste, the last bunch of models you have produced are starting to look a bit too clean for TW. They look more like custodes to me, I think you should stick with the slightly rougher and readier look that your Tattered Prince is rocking.

 

Keep it up.

 

Cheers

LM

Hey mate,

Thanks for the input and always looking for more! I can definitely get where you are coming from the rougher looking TW. I think he definitely suits early unification wars or pre-unity Ararat/Just after ararat as a survivor. These guys though are set a couple of hundred years down the line as an insurgent force (given their XX Legiones Cateagis roots). I see no reason why they wouldn't have their :cuss together a little more. 

 

I've kept the tatterterd chainmail, they will aslo be getting large billowing cloaks, fur lined at the top to feral them up a little more. The use of the Angron armour and giving them custodes vibes is jumping on some of the new fluff in the Valdo novels saying:

 

SPOILER QUOTES:

"And then came Ushotan, of course, almost as resplendent now as he had been in the past. He had diminished very little, like a granite crag thrust out into a wearing sea...."

"His dark gold plate still carried a mite of its old lustre.."

"He wore the finest of what was left of the old armour - bronze so dark it might have been iron, lined with blood red lacquer and covered in battle-honours.."

"For a moment she thought they were Custodians, although their stature was not quire the same, and their armour not of the same quality. Up close you couldr, and you could see great differences - the plate was cruder, heavier, more bronze than gold. .... The still wore their crimson plumes, though, and still donned their thick cromson claoks.."

"They were armed and armoured nearly as well as the Legio Custodes."

 

So factor the above in, with the fact they have been cuasing all sorts of issues for the Imperium over a couple of hundred years, they have probably accrued some decent kit, found a trove of dark age armour etc etc. 

 

So the above reasons are why I've went with the slighly more 'custodied' look to them instead of the more, old school techno-barbarian vibes good sir :). That and its always fun to try something different/flex the hobby muscles :P.

 

Cheers,

Nick

[Ryltar Thamior]

Hey gang,

 

[snip]

 

Cool concept - well, concepts plural; the flier is a notable work of ingenuity - and the XXth makes for a logical and interesting incorporation. It's definitely got my own mind working for the various Unification [and Unification-derived] stuff we do over at Vox Stellarum. 

 

What I'd potentially note is that the way in which the (later) Custodes Ephoroi appear able to infiltrate places disguised as even ordinary human sized (and mass'd somehow) figures - suggests that it's not beyond the realms of possibility for such activities not to be limited only to pretending to be a pre-Unification warlord's genehanced walking biomancy experiments. At least for a few. 

 

It may also be that, akin to some of the stuff around Alpharius/Omegon being the *smallest* of the Primarchs, that these forerunners to that later legion, might also incorporate within their number some great things in smaller packages - custom units who're pushing close to limits what can be done in a normal, or rather larger than normal [but still broadly 'human'] sized frame. [dangit, you now have me eyeing up some spare Goliath frames and working out how difficult it'd be to put cameoline cloaks on 'em] . 

 

That Alpha Legion point also touches upon another thought I had when reading your fluff-explication - the rather perplexing material that turns up in some Alpha Legion fluff around them potentially sharing design-elements with the Custodes, being around from ... before there are supposed to be 'proper' Astartes, and all sorts of other things lik that. It's possible to write much of that off as deliberate misinformation, hubris, or the results of in-universe speculation and shoddy record keeping ; but perhaps it is the case that some of your XXth were either deliberately retained for later 'building upon' (possibly, as you've noted, due to their greater 'stability' being a design-feature), or might have accomplished the rather impressive feat of having infiltrated the naescent Legiones Astartes [which, given how that particular setup appears to be working in current fluff, might mean they're actually running around with later Dark Angels - which would certainly go with a certain penchant for dark secrets and such :P ] 

 

That also supplies another manner in which your XXth might have learned of the plot for Mt Ararat - by habitual Alpha-style OTT paranoia meaning they and/or their operatives were in a position to learn of it, or at least ot make a reasonable inference as to its likely impending occurrence, ahead of time. 

 

It's also possible that th more 'independent-minded' sorts from this XXth may just never have 'come in' from previous assignments - either through deliberate evasion, because it was a longer-term op, or simply through fog of war meaning the relevant orders never made it through. 

 

Oh, 'operatives'. Maybe do some of those  

 

Anyway, great work - keep it up!

Thanks mate all that info and your thoughts are some awesome stuff to go off of! 

 

Good thinking on the 'body cloak' sort of dealio, is definitely a nice plot hook/hand wavium way to allow some of them to actually infiltrate! 

Yeah I do have a few Goliath sptures that will be getting a work out for some of the dieing/cancering out TW that will be the ogryns, some good bits and pieces in there! I'm escpially looking forward to those new stimmers and the bane-guy that are coming out! Also I was originally going to use ab-human helots for this army but swapped to alchem jackers proveance.

 

There was definitely a a plot I was looking of going down that the 'vivisector' (more than happy to hear better names!) is pretty much the main reason most of these TW's are still going (he'll be a primus medicae). I'll have medicae's attached to all the militia squads, but the medicaes will be based off the Necor Delaque dudes. The plot there would have been that his 'vivisector' has also started messing with the humans under their command to up their combat potential a bit (think fabius bile level of weirdness, less the Babu Dakal messing'.

 

Oh I like the idea that some may have been kept on ice! Hell that could be just a fun 'aside' story about maybe them doing some clandestine stuff to pilfer one of these untainted dudes so as to allow the vivisector to mess with a 'fresh' TW!! Oh I do like the running around with Marines also!! Another fantastic hook! 

 

I like the idea of them being aware that something may have been up prior to Ararat!! Thats great, could then rejigg the fluff to say that they thought something was up, so they did what they normally did, thus avoiding the trap. If it wasn't a trap, too easy, standard MO for them!! 

 

Yeah Operatives has me thinking!! Possibly a reckon squad!! Ooooh! 

 

But thanks a heap for all this excellent insight man!! By all means keep laying the fluff and your brilliant ideas on me!!

 

Cheers,

Nick

Churr; glad it's something that's useful for you. Great work with the weapons, and the Cataphractii shoulderpads are really excellent for the vibe. 

 

First thing I'd perhaps suggest is taking a look - if you haven't already - at the Vox Stellarum Unification Wars project log. We haven't done much on it for the last wee while, but I took a brief look over your first page of this log and noticed the utilization of the Skorr helm on Angron and it uh .. it reminded me of one of the Thunder Warriors that Umbral built. 

 

There may also be some relevant material scattered through our Horus Heresy era log, as well - although I forget whether I actually wrote some of the stuff up. Basically, my side of things was largely made up of Terran Unification veterans with associated cultural influences, including augmented humans that were in quite a different style to the big burly muscular brute-looking sorts. [There's also a conversion of a Fulgrim into a more-than-truescale Custodes in there somewhere, as well] 

 

I'll put the rest in spoiler tags to avoid cluttering your thread 

 

Said 'cultural influences' were largely Vedic in origin - because the schematic for the Unification Wars that we worked out, had The Emperor basically starting out in North(western) India [which partially explains some of the information around Babu Dhakal - including not only some of the geographic associations brought up in The Outcast Dead, but also why the two Thunder Warriors are using old Mughal army ranks], and expanding Westward through the Iranian plateau [hence the remarks around the Achaemenid Empire being a relatively early and peaceful incorporation - as well as, it would appear, a source of recruits for the nascent Legions from pretty early on [the particular point of evidence for this being the pre-Perturabo legion culture of the IVth, being significantly Persian / Persian-Greek in its infusions]]. 

 

Now, part of the reason I mention that, is because one of the concepts we had going on in the background for the aforementioned Army of Unification veterans that turn up in the Heresy-era, was that they were granted a life-extending and otherwise enhancing infusion. Which might sound pretty ehh and generic [and the way I've phrased it there ... it really kinda is]; but was actually the result of me drawing from the aforementioned Vedic mythoreligious canon and constructing a semi-elaborate 'bringing together' of said elements with more established 30k conceptry. In particular, a not entirely dissimilar empowerment developed by the Ribhus [likely etymologically cognate with "Elves" in modern English, as it happens], which restores youth and vitality; and also an array of the general conceptry around both Soma, and Pujaris. Make the obvious conceptual leap from "Priest" to something closer to "Tech-Priest" [but pre-Mars pact, so the indigenous Terran equivalent], and in particular, an equivalent to an apothecary, or magos biologis, or genewright, etc. .. and there we go. 

 

Anyway, I'm on a bit of a tangent. 

 

The point is, when you're looking at Unification Wars and immediately post-Unification derivative material, the go-to place is Bronze Age and (early) Iron Age Indo-European mythology. After all, The Emperor is literally - per Master of Mankind - a pre-Hittite in Anatolia [and ... while it's *possible* that Aaron Dembski-Bowden was being a bit lazy with Anatolian hydronymy when he called the river in question the "Sakarya", as that's a modern Turkish name for a river in the area ... I prefer to think that he intentionally phrased it thus so that some madman armed with a Proto-Indo-European dictionary could look at what "Sak-Arya" would mean, and observe that the figurative translation for it was "Unity". ] 

 

I have some various rants, in various threads both here and on Ammobunker, around pretty much this concept - picking up the portions that Alan Bligh already directly referenced and incorporated into FW's Black Books on the subject, and for that matter, some of the aforementioned Black Library offerings; and also real-world history in the relevant areas and periods. If you like, I'll go off and hunt down links and/or text. And after some of the requests I've had, I might actually start compiling these for ease of reference in the future. 

 

[also, as a further example of the concept somewaht retroactively in action, on a recent thread where somebody asked about 'real-world' Custodes comparative examples .... I went a bit further, and started doing exactly the above as applies various largely Varuna-relevant scriptural material for The Emperor and The Custodes.]. 

 

[there may be additionally relevant inspirational points in this article I wrote last year ... which entirely uncoincidentally has headings like "The Golden Legion of Thunder Warriors" in there, when talking about the Maruts] 

 

Now, one thing I was thinking about, if you're going down the pre-XXth style of cultural approach ... is a perhaps under-spoken about role for Serpents in Indo-European mythology. There's a more full-length article on the subject [again, my handiwork ... it uh ... it turned up as a partial result of my work to produce fluff and other forms of inspiration for various 40k projects we have ongoing]; however the points that I'd be drawing your attention to from said article are the bits around Serpents, and Dragon's Tooth seeded in particular, as 'progenitor' or 'original clade of a people' sorts. You can see that in the mythology around Cadmus and the soldiers who spring up when he sows said dragon teeth, then fight amongst themselves [perhaps kinda like Ararat? :P ] , and the survivors are utilized to form the basis for the new city of Thebes. [There's a perhaps surprising further array of 'Grandfather Serpent' mythematic occurrences, as well - Cercrops being a prominent one]. 

 

[this might also link up with conceptry around warrior sub-castes - as, after all, we're looking at perhaps long-term and more 'stabilized' ... or at least conventionally and somewaht predictably less stable, lineages of augmentations, during the Unification period. ALthough I do see you're talking about alchem jackers rather  than abhuman helots.] 

 

Although where I was also going to go with this, was some of the other and more 'obscure' so to speak serpentine bits and pieces. But my train of thought has vanished there for  the moment, so I'll leave that there and maybe come back to it later if this is of use. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr Yellow]

Hey mate,

Thanks for the input and always looking for more! I can definitely get where you are coming from the rougher looking TW. I think he definitely suits early unification wars or pre-unity Ararat/Just after ararat as a survivor. These guys though are set a couple of hundred years down the line as an insurgent force (given their XX Legiones Cateagis roots). I see no reason why they wouldn't have their together a little more. 

 

I've kept the tatterterd chainmail, they will aslo be getting large billowing cloaks, fur lined at the top to feral them up a little more. The use of the Angron armour and giving them custodes vibes is jumping on some of the new fluff in the Valdo novels saying:

 

SPOILER QUOTES:

"And then came Ushotan, of course, almost as resplendent now as he had been in the past. He had diminished very little, like a granite crag thrust out into a wearing sea...."

"His dark gold plate still carried a mite of its old lustre.."

"He wore the finest of what was left of the old armour - bronze so dark it might have been iron, lined with blood red lacquer and covered in battle-honours.."

"For a moment she thought they were Custodians, although their stature was not quire the same, and their armour not of the same quality. Up close you couldr, and you could see great differences - the plate was cruder, heavier, more bronze than gold. .... The still wore their crimson plumes, though, and still donned their thick cromson claoks.."

"They were armed and armoured nearly as well as the Legio Custodes."

 

So factor the above in, with the fact they have been cuasing all sorts of issues for the Imperium over a couple of hundred years, they have probably accrued some decent kit, found a trove of dark age armour etc etc. 

 

So the above reasons are why I've went with the slighly more 'custodied' look to them instead of the more, old school techno-barbarian vibes good sir . That and its always fun to try something different/flex the hobby muscles .

 

Cheers,

Nick

 

 

Well now, you've clearly put a lot of thought into this and very neatly answered all my thoughts. Carry on sir.

 

If you are looking for other sources of base model, take a look at the Fallout boardame super mutants. They are a little pricey but have a good size and musculature for TW.

 

Cheers

LM

 

[Midnightmare]

Some brilliant ideas on here and you have really knocked them out of the park realising them. Epic work!

[TheTrans]

Heya Gang,

Just been doing a bit of work on the 'vivisector' I'll endeavour to come up with a better name than that for him, but will hold for the moment.

He will be acting as a Primus Medicae for the TW. He will have a Stormcast death mast in place over his helm and the Milita Medicae orderlies (based off of the amazing delaque gang) will also have the masks as they'll be like his little coven/followers sort of deal.

So this pose no doubt looks a little odd thus far haha. His right hand will be holding a cane, I want him to be a bit weird/frail even for a 200 odd year old possible-TW. He'll have a few servo-arm sort of things going on and a reduced version of the primaris medicaes narthecium (thing is stupidly huge). He'll be bent over a dead/dying truescale space marine, pifler organs/blood/geneseet etc.

Just showing off all the funky medical bric-a-brac. He also has one of the quasi-dialysis machines as not even he can escape the inbuilt TW curse and its rough treatment.

More bric-a-brac. But have added some kroot knives as I want this guy to have a quasi jack the ripper vibe. Like sure, he is pilfering marine parts because he needs them to keep the TW's pieced together... but he also enjoys it... and may or may not romp around worlds they are on murdering peeps. The Petchverk Boyar knows of this, is disgusted by this, but can't do much about it given this dude is keeping them alive.

Anyway, will maybe do some work on the plane again soon, but am really enjoying building up the thunder warriors.

Some brilliant ideas on here and you have really knocked them out of the park realising them. Epic work!

Thansk a heap brother!!

Well now, you've clearly put a lot of thought into this and very neatly answered all my thoughts. Carry on sir.

If you are looking for other sources of base model, take a look at the Fallout boardame super mutants. They are a little pricey but have a good size and musculature for TW.

Cheers

LM

Glad you can see/enjoy where I'm coming from good sir! :). Fanstastic suggestion, will look into them!

Hey gang,

[snip]

-snip-

-Snip-

Churr; glad it's something that's useful for you. Great work with the weapons, and the Cataphractii shoulderpads are really excellent for the vibe.

First thing I'd perhaps suggest is taking a look - if you haven't already - at the Vox Stellarum Unification Wars project log. We haven't done much on it for the last wee while, but I took a brief look over your first page of this log and noticed the utilization of the Skorr helm on Angron and it uh .. it reminded me of one of the Thunder Warriors that Umbral built.

There may also be some relevant material scattered through our Horus Heresy era log, as well - although I forget whether I actually wrote some of the stuff up. Basically, my side of things was largely made up of Terran Unification veterans with associated cultural influences, including augmented humans that were in quite a different style to the big burly muscular brute-looking sorts. [There's also a conversion of a Fulgrim into a more-than-truescale Custodes in there somewhere, as well]

I'll put the rest in spoiler tags to avoid cluttering your thread

Said 'cultural influences' were largely Vedic in origin - because the schematic for the Unification Wars that we worked out, had The Emperor basically starting out in North(western) India [which partially explains some of the information around Babu Dhakal - including not only some of the geographic associations brought up in The Outcast Dead, but also why the two Thunder Warriors are using old Mughal army ranks], and expanding Westward through the Iranian plateau [hence the remarks around the Achaemenid Empire being a relatively early and peaceful incorporation - as well as, it would appear, a source of recruits for the nascent Legions from pretty early on [the particular point of evidence for this being the pre-Perturabo legion culture of the IVth, being significantly Persian / Persian-Greek in its infusions]].

Now, part of the reason I mention that, is because one of the concepts we had going on in the background for the aforementioned Army of Unification veterans that turn up in the Heresy-era, was that they were granted a life-extending and otherwise enhancing infusion. Which might sound pretty ehh and generic [and the way I've phrased it there ... it really kinda is]; but was actually the result of me drawing from the aforementioned Vedic mythoreligious canon and constructing a semi-elaborate 'bringing together' of said elements with more established 30k conceptry. In particular, a not entirely dissimilar empowerment developed by the Ribhus [likely etymologically cognate with "Elves" in modern English, as it happens], which restores youth and vitality; and also an array of the general conceptry around both Soma, and Pujaris. Make the obvious conceptual leap from "Priest" to something closer to "Tech-Priest" [but pre-Mars pact, so the indigenous Terran equivalent], and in particular, an equivalent to an apothecary, or magos biologis, or genewright, etc. .. and there we go.

Anyway, I'm on a bit of a tangent.

The point is, when you're looking at Unification Wars and immediately post-Unification derivative material, the go-to place is Bronze Age and (early) Iron Age Indo-European mythology. After all, The Emperor is literally - per Master of Mankind - a pre-Hittite in Anatolia [and ... while it's *possible* that Aaron Dembski-Bowden was being a bit lazy with Anatolian hydronymy when he called the river in question the "Sakarya", as that's a modern Turkish name for a river in the area ... I prefer to think that he intentionally phrased it thus so that some madman armed with a Proto-Indo-European dictionary could look at what "Sak-Arya" would mean, and observe that the figurative translation for it was "Unity". ]

I have some various rants, in various threads both here and on Ammobunker, around pretty much this concept - picking up the portions that Alan Bligh already directly referenced and incorporated into FW's Black Books on the subject, and for that matter, some of the aforementioned Black Library offerings; and also real-world history in the relevant areas and periods. If you like, I'll go off and hunt down links and/or text. And after some of the requests I've had, I might actually start compiling these for ease of reference in the future.

[also, as a further example of the concept somewaht retroactively in action, on a recent thread where somebody asked about 'real-world' Custodes comparative examples .... I went a bit further, and started doing exactly the above as applies various largely Varuna-relevant scriptural material for The Emperor and The Custodes.].

[there may be additionally relevant inspirational points in this article I wrote last year ... which entirely uncoincidentally has headings like "The Golden Legion of Thunder Warriors" in there, when talking about the Maruts]

Now, one thing I was thinking about, if you're going down the pre-XXth style of cultural approach ... is a perhaps under-spoken about role for Serpents in Indo-European mythology. There's a more full-length article on the subject [again, my handiwork ... it uh ... it turned up as a partial result of my work to produce fluff and other forms of inspiration for various 40k projects we have ongoing]; however the points that I'd be drawing your attention to from said article are the bits around Serpents, and Dragon's Tooth seeded in particular, as 'progenitor' or 'original clade of a people' sorts. You can see that in the mythology around Cadmus and the soldiers who spring up when he sows said dragon teeth, then fight amongst themselves [perhaps kinda like Ararat? :P ] , and the survivors are utilized to form the basis for the new city of Thebes. [There's a perhaps surprising further array of 'Grandfather Serpent' mythematic occurrences, as well - Cercrops being a prominent one].

[this might also link up with conceptry around warrior sub-castes - as, after all, we're looking at perhaps long-term and more 'stabilized' ... or at least conventionally and somewaht predictably less stable, lineages of augmentations, during the Unification period. ALthough I do see you're talking about alchem jackers rather than abhuman helots.]

Although where I was also going to go with this, was some of the other and more 'obscure' so to speak serpentine bits and pieces. But my train of thought has vanished there for the moment, so I'll leave that there and maybe come back to it later if this is of use.

You good sir have certainly looked into a lot of this well beyond me!! There is some awesome material to chew over there mate and I'm currently going down the rabbit hole with all the articles you've linked me thank you!

May look into the serpent stuff, but was leaning a bit toward russian flavouring for no particular reason haha. The XXth tie was more just a matter of narrative conveinience than anything, but will have a squiz on the lizard/dragon/snake front and see if I can pilfer anymore of that!

Alchem Jackers was a bit more of a gameplay concession than narrative. Although Frenzon on the dieing thunderwarriors is awesome! But needed my ground units (the arco-flagellant cohort) to stick around and ideally not run off the board haha.

Thanks again for your awesome input mate!

[Ryltar Thamior]

Russian?! Well why didn't you just say so! That makes things a *lot* easier. 

I insist you check out this *excellent* short story written by B&C/Ammobunker's own EdT to go with his Thunder Warrior kill-team from back in the day. Unfortunately, the pictures in this project log are mostly now disapparated, but the short fiction pieces he wrote to go with all the kill teams are still there - and thoroughly worth a read, each and every one. 

But as for this one in particular ... you'll see why I thought it might be relevant  

Anyway, on to the mythography that might be relevant - and I think I might have a lead on what to do with your "Vivisector" nomenclaturial , resultant therefrom. 

Right, so Slavic mythology is ... not so much "up in the air" as "scattered to the wind" for a number of reasons; and what we have access to today is basically a hodge-podge of secondary sources written by Christian chroniclers that weren't really sure what they were witnessing, or were simply recording second or even third hand; and what can be reconstructed from an array of even more temporally removed stuff around toponyms and folktales; as well as via comparative speculation based on what we know of the mythologies that influenced or were influenced by it ... oh, and outside that, a whole lot of "headcanon" from various people, some of which is more entertaining than others. 

I had a rant about part of this a few months back, because I considered it a pretty good example of the dangers inherent in over-relying upon dodgy source material, as applies people just taking at face value the stuff contained in the Hypatian Codex and running with it uncritically. This is because, to put it somewhat succinctly ... what we have today is the result of a Greek Christian writer telling a tale incorporating a legendary pseudo-history set in Egypt ... except with particular Greek Gods in the important roles therein (and probably not the ones you'd expect) ... and then over the next eight hundred years or so, several layers of recension by Slavic compilers and editors, at least one of whom decided to 'translate' the Greek deities mentioned to Slavic terms that'd be more familiar for the readership. 

So prima facie, you can see how somebody looking at some of the figures mentioned in said Codex, and going "Yup, that's what the Slavs believed" [overlooking, for the moment, the impropriety of homogenizing that entire family of peoples like that] ... is going to be on pretty shaky ground at best. 

Or so I thought. Yet over the intervening few months, I've actually wound up coming back around the other way about a) the general concept of Interpretatio Romano style stuff in the ancient world often having greater accuracy than simple vague equation or political convenience; and due to my ongoing research as applies Vedic mythoreligion in particular (Sanskrit, after all, also being a Satem language, just as the Slavic ones are - and there also being a well-attested range of cultural and genetic influence between the Indo-Iranian sphere and the Slavic one), and also how this squares up with the Germanic belief, especially like a thousand years before the Nordic mythology as we know it was set down ... well ... I had a few things that lead me to reconsider. 

But I'll spare you all of that, and we'll get down to what might be useful/relevant for your purposes. 

There are two main deities mentioned in said Hypatian Codex that're quite relevant for what you may be going for. Svarog and Dazhbog. The former is identified (slightly erroneously) with Hephaestus; and dependent upon which etymology you favour (the correct answer is likely "both" ), basically means Sky/Shining/Heaven(ly)[Ruler], and/or Sovereign [in fact, "Sovereign" is kinda cognate], [although there's another possibility around 'Fighter']. Dazhbog, meanwhile, is built from the "Bog" term that means "Lord" [in Sanskrit - 'Bhaga'; iirc might also be the root of "Baghdad"], in the sense kinda of a feudal lord that bestows things [here's an article on this concept I wrote awhile back, after seeing some rather cool art of Scythians engaged in exactly this custom - a soldier presenting the severed head of a Macedonian to his ruler, and getting a treasure in return], which also explains the prefix, that's basically a 'dative' - 'giving'. He's also described as a Solar deity and a regal one at that. [Which, applying some comparative mythography and blurring things slightly, actually may suggest that the Bhaga that is being Given is that of Life/the necessities of ongoing life] [there's a fragmentary attestation for Dazhbog as progenitor of the Russians, as well] 

Svarog, not least due to the "Hephaestus" writeup in the Hypatian Codex, gets presented these days as some sort of celestial blacksmith; and furthering the comparative mythography into sensibly speculative territory [while also blurring a lot of things through simplification because I've already screwed up just doing the bit I meant  to that's directly of potential use], would be a solar deity that's also a bit of a cosmokrator, and may have some role in forging men, and more definitely the tools they then fight with. 

The comparative element I'm using to fill in a lot of gaps is the Vedic figure of Tvastr; which also makes for some potentially interesting resonances that may have applicability for your project when we consider the creation of Trisiras and Vritra [both fought and killed by Indra - you could probably run something from there in relation to the Purge of the Thunder Warriors by the Astartes at Ararat], but I digress. 

Now why have I just typed up all of that? Well, partially because I haven't actually written an article on all of this in the academic/theological sphere, so I can't just link to a writeup I prepared earlier [and I basically spent two hours this morning not-actually-getting-to-sleep because this was whirring in my mind because i checked this thread before trying to crash out about 04:00] .. but mostly because I felt it might be necessary iin order to more properly set up the following concept:

either The Emperor as the 'Svarog' of the situation (and it makes logical sense on a number of fronts - our general position is that The Emperor is Dyaus Pitar); or whomever's responsible for the ongoing provision of life (and probably also the distribution of loot/equipment) to the Thunder Warriors, as 'a' Svarog, and/or 'a' Dazhbog, perhaps inherited terminology recalling the 'original' relationship these Thunder Warriors or their forebears might have enjoyed with their ultimate creator. Perhaps 'sun-bearers', or 'imitation-Suns', or as applies one potential etymology for a third deific relevant to all of this - Svarozic - 'little Sun' (which may potentially be the Moon .. it's uh .. it's complicated; although now that I think about it, there's a reference to Cardinal Tang having dominion over at least some of the Luna Gene-wrights, so perhaps a "Lunar" element in relation to all of this would be fitting, in terms of what's keeping these Thunder Warriors going or has made them different). Indeed, in terms of the power that beats iwthin the heart(s) of every Thunder Warrior, there's something to the concept of 'Sun-Bearer' - not least because the figurative connotation of carrying around an immensely powerful and highly radioactive fusion reaction in one's chest ... seems kinda fitting in some ways. They do, after all, burn so much *brighter* than most of the rest of The Emperor's creations and people - albeit more dangerously and likely briefly. [indeed, it could be a bit dangerous for ordinary mortals to spend too much time unshielded near them - not just for the usual/obvious reasons, but becaues of whatever it is that's keeping them going, seeping out kinda like solar radiation and causing cancer as a result - the same stuff that's keeping transhuman bodies' fundamentally human-based cells regenerating at an enhanced rate to counteract the degradation of containing *all that power* within their mighty frame ... leading to uncontrolled cellular (re)growth when in contact with actual ordinary human unaugmented biomatter)

Although I suppose a Sun is inherently more stable and long-lasting as compared to a Thunder bolt and/or storm - so that might dovetail with your Thunder Warriors being rather different in this specific regard as compares the more usual sort. 

Making the gear (available) and making it work, giving life and/or massively amping up the potency of said life, thence bestowing and prolonging both the life and its lustre ... it's Energy and a (re-)creative, directive, intelligent force. 

Oh, the other reason I thought it might be worth a look-in is because of the strong role of Fire in all of the above; albeit with the qualifier that the way it works in part of the Vedic cosmology, is that the Sun, Lightning, and Fire, are the same energy, expressed semi-differently at various levels of the world (so the Sun in the Sky, Lightning in the Atmosphere, Fire here on Earth - it's not hard to see how this works, and in terms of *plasma*, it's not actually entirely inaccurate, either). 

You've placed a reasonable emphasis upon flamers, ray-guns, plasma weaponry and such in what I've seen so far, so I suppose I was reminded of it. It may also open up some slightly different thematics than the way people often go with Thunder Warriors, which is the strong emphasis upon the Thunder and Lightning bit. 

There may also be some Solar Hawk / Solar Eagle / Solar Falcon symbolism that might be applicable, although I may be conjuring things from my (somewhat informed) imagination, as the Dawn slowly rises above the horizon out in front of me as I type. 

Either way, there's some definite Bronze Age Solutions vibes that could be sourced out of that; and Bronze Age Brutality is, after all, *exactly* what Unification is all about. With the callbacks during the Crusade and subsequent being, in their own way, the opposite and inverse of an elegant weapon for a more civilized age. 

Oh, and another idea that ... is a lot shorter: 

You may have heard of Koschei the Deathless; basically, a figure a bit like a D&D lich, particularly thanks to having a phylactery like magical device (often involving a well-hidden egg with an arrow) that keeps him deathless. You could twist that concept to something about a character in possession of such a thing htat is used for the rest of the contingent also; and there may also be something of use/relevancy in several of the etymologies proposed for his name - including that it may mean a military officer (potentially related to similar terminology from the Kushan Empire - which gets you some added Unification points in my book, because of the manner in which the lesser-known Central Asian Indo-European polities are so resonant with this period), going on some of the more Indo-European potentialities ; that it may mean a wanderer, or that it may mean a prisoner or a slave, going on some of the more  Turkic ones. 

these may have additional saliency/relevancy as not only is there Ursh out there as a rather prominent antagonist for the nascent Unification, that these chaps may have been deployed against and adopted customs from in the course of their infiltration ... but there's a few other and smaller-scale polities as well in the same general region that might be worth a look-in - like the Ethnarchy of the Caucasus Wastes. 

You could also, perhaps curiously enough, do something like the Alpha Legion later did and have a Crimson Walker 

 

and a third .. 

 

there may be some potential for making use of some rather archaic Russian terms , in much the same manner that Mughal military titles were used for the Thunder Warriors in The Outcast Dead. The two which sprang to mind were Bogatyr [you'll remember 'Bog' from earlier; the combined term is something like Warrior/Knight of God, although i suppose it could also be used in reference to a more mortal Lord's combatant]; and Vityaz ['knight', and some .. odd etymological speculation around whether it's some kind of incorporation of something like "Viking", or whether it's closer to "Victor" , insofar as there may be a difference] 

 

Oh, and before I forget: really nice work on that 'vivisector' ; good combination of parts, solid and well thought out accessorizing, and as per usual, some grand posing; looking forward to seeing how that build progresses. 

[TheTrans]

Heya Gang,

Had a few of the boys over last night to talk :cuss and do some hobby, so opted to do some work on the strom eagle counts as. It is, ah, concerningly large!!

Anyway I think I'm almost happy with its shape/build its. But as always would love all your thoughts! The arvus is from a previous build and will be stripped and remade in a similar way to what has happened to the marauder, but is there for scale.

So once i have the true shape and everything worked out I can really lean into what I enjoy and that is detailing it up!

Anyway would love some feed back, so ahve at it!

Russian?! Well why didn't you just say so! That makes things a *lot* easier.

I insist you check out this *excellent* short story written by B&C/Ammobunker's own EdT to go with his Thunder Warrior kill-team from back in the day. Unfortunately, the pictures in this project log are mostly now disapparated, but the short fiction pieces he wrote to go with all the kill teams are still there - and thoroughly worth a read, each and every one.

But as for this one in particular ... you'll see why I thought it might be relevant

Anyway, on to the mythography that might be relevant - and I think I might have a lead on what to do with your "Vivisector" nomenclaturial , resultant therefrom.

[snip]
Oh, and another idea that ... is a lot shorter:

[snip]

and a third ..

[snip]

Oh, and before I forget: really nice work on that 'vivisector' ; good combination of parts, solid and well thought out accessorizing, and as per usual, some grand posing; looking forward to seeing how that build progresses.

Jesus good sir, that is a whole lot of info you've got rattling around there and clearly have a very deep well of ancient diety knowledge going on! I generally just skim 'feeling' or 'meaning' from the words/cultures I pilfer from for naming, ranks etc, but this certainly gives me a heap more stuff to look into, I do like the thoughts behind the arrow/egg sort of deal for the vivisector etc. You've definitely given me a good whack to ponder mate!

Cheers,

Nick

[Isengrin]

It's pretty cool to see you come up with all those different variations of one base model, really excellent conversions. Can't have enough Unification business around here so keep those thunder bois coming! 

[TheTrans]

Have done a bit more work over the weekend gang!

Now I've got the bulk of the working-order Thunderwarriors done, as well as the Vivisector almost sorted, I've started trying out playing around with the dieing/mutating out thunderwarriors.

I've made push moulds of the 3 main angron armour pieces that I use, chest, Left and Right leg. A few parts of the leg failed, but was quickly remedied by this guy cancering out of it.

So wanted his pose to look a little more crippled that his kin, sort of staggering forward. I've also based his toros off of a slaughterpriest thus the large, muated bulky arm.



I've since the pic was taken enlarged the dialysis machine thing and have tubes exteneding out to his chest connection (like his kin) but also his arm and that mutated leg you can see on the right there. I imagine its stilly trying to detox the blood/hold back his impending doom, while also dumping huge amounts of painkillers/frenzon into his system to keep him operational.

Just a slightly better shot of the leg.

Now this is a basic start, but is how I want most of the falling TWs to look, either bare head, or heavily damaged armour. Againt realy want to show this fall from glory due to their genetics sort of deal and to make sure they still are similar to their functional brothers, but also easy to tell they are the 'ogryn' rules ones.

It's pretty cool to see you come up with all those different variations of one base model, really excellent conversions. Can't have enough Unification business around here so keep those thunder bois coming!

Thanks mate!! Yeah was a bit daunting at first, but there is a heap one can do with a single pose if willing to pin and GS stuff :P. More unificaiton thebetter!

Thanks again for having a look gang!

[TheTrans]

Been super quiet on here gang, but have been busy modeling away.

Just due to wanting to get some actionable tactics within my army, I opted to add a recon squad with sniper rifles, camo cloaks and carapace armour as a forward deployed part of the force... thus I give you the first, trial 'recon' Thunder Warrior.

Hope you like him!

So I wanted to have some of the core parts of the other Tunder Warriors, while clearly making him a little more recon aswell as having carapace armour.

So I kept with the custode vambrances and hands, also kept the belt, chest piece and shin guards. Only gave him the chainmail skirt and removed the leather straps and no bulk shoulder pads. I think he came out looking pretty spot on. The sniper rifle is from the Dust SSU line.

Would love some thoughts. comments etc!

Cheers,

Nick

Edited April 12, 2020 by TheTrans

[jeremy1391]

That sniper looks awesome!

[lionofjudah]

This whole project is killer!! I love the aesthetic you're working with and appreciate the time energy and effort invested in making it happen.

I'm.jealous of your push mold skills

[Xin Ceithan]

I simply like all of this. The whole look of your models is great and you are obviously going out of your way to make it a coherent theme with convincing background. Marvelous!

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The green stuff additions are well-sculpted.

[TheTrans]

Heya gang,

As I said I've been working away while on holidays.

For another update (quick I know) I give you the Thunder Warrior lord, Petverk Boyar/name pending.

The idea behind this pose is he'll be reaching down toward a fallen comrade post battle. Hence his helm is removed and he is using his axe as almost a support.

The pic shows of the titular Cloak of Foes Felled. This will be painted as torn shreds of enemy banners.

Here you can see a decent-ish shot of the xenos deathlock. Its based off of vulkans pistol, with a kroot rifle grip. Super basic conversion, but came up good I reckon. (also shows how small angron is compared to his brothers!).

Decent shot showing off his axe (which will most probably just be run as a Thunder Hammer). It is the spear tip off of the Custodes Dread. This weapon went through a heap of iterations and proofing from mates before it got to this point! I was certain though I wanted to use the Dread Weapon as the blade patterning really ties it back into the aether-mauls that I've got the normal TWs using.

Just an alternate front shot, Shows where his helmet is stowed plus a better shot of his head, which was some form of crazed world eater head, with just a simple head/chin resculpt chilled im out a bit form nuts to stern!

Anyway ope you enjoy him, I certainly did making the big bastard!!

That sniper looks awesome!

Thanks mate!

This whole project is killer!! I love the aesthetic you're working with and appreciate the time energy and effort invested in making it happen.
I'm.jealous of your push mold skills

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The Thunder Warrior looks most promising. Is he your OC, or a canon character from a Black Library novel?

[k0nahrik]

Just came across this thread today and all throughout reading it I’ve been thinking your conversion style looks familiar - only upon seeing this most recent post do

I realise I’ve been keeping up with your work over on reddit. This project is absolutely stellar, these guys look great. Really excited to see where this goes and what they’ll look like with a lick of paint

[Majkhel]

Cheers Trans!

This latest work of yours - the lord - is superb! Love everything about it :)

 

The recon guy is also nice, although I don't like the way his cloak is wrapped around his right leg. It's like this only this part of him is in a very strong wind. 

 

Fantastic ideas across this whole project. Keep it up 

[TheTrans]

Heya gang,

Again been slow on the updates as getting the fliers sorted turned into a bit of a slog.

But have since managed to get them done and finalise the first batch of thunder warriors. As of last night I've got them all primed and zenithal highlighted.

So here we have a group shot, from left to right we have. Just got names so far for stuff, heaps of fluff is inbound, but will be heavily russian based.

Mi-48 Uragan Sokol (Hurricane Falcon) - This is the stand in for a Storm Eagle.

T-6a Laska (weasel) - The small wheeled APC. WIll be used as a Rhino DT for the Recon Thunderwarriors. Is used instead of a true tank in a fluff sense that it can be air-lifted/air-dropped in for forward recon.

An-3 Tashchit Sova (carry owl) - The 3 Arvus Lighter conversions are exactly that, being used as Arvus Lighters for Grenadier squads in the AoDC List.

The Rest I will go into with the following pics.

Ostalos Cohort (Remaining Cohort)

So these are the remaing, 'intact' thunder warriors. There will be the recon ones and the ogryn-rules ones which will be dieing, but these bros are still mostly there in the head. I wanted a variety of poses on these guys to have both them still looking relatively 'militaristic' but still have some of that crazy ferociousness that the Thunder Warriors were always known for.

Least exciting of the two. Just pretty standard army guy poses. Does show how big their guns are, being toxiferrum flamers. Also wanted to make sure I had their loadouts on them, thus their giant glaives (aethershock mauls) stowed away.

Little more exciting on these guys. One on the left I wanted to try and convey the weight of the glaive, while also have this sort of terrifying dude stalking forward, quite composed, but utterly lethal. The next is almsot the exact opposite. Leaping into contact and hopefully given we've seen the weight of the weapon from teh dude on the left, the guy on the right, swining it like that, its going to sting when it hits.

Finallly the sarge/banner bearer. The banner will be stitched together from other banners from beaten foes. Added the Raptor Imperialis in there to nod back to unity and how these guys still kind of are fighting for unity.

Vrach Khirurg, The Mountebank (The Surgeon) - Primus Medicae.

Currently sculpting up a truescale marine with his chest ripped open to be laying at this guys feet. I imagine this guy has found some form of way to help stave off the ole TW degradation. It may be use of geneseed (as was hinted at in outcast dead) or one of a million hand wavium possibilities. But we can't let good geneseed go to waste ;). He will also have a posse of little orderlies (using delaque bodies and SCE heads) that will be with the mortal troops as medicaes. Sort of have him overseeing any ah 'modifications' they mortal troops have copped.

Stezhok Tsesarevich, The Tattered Prince

Same guy as the above post, but just primed. He will be the leader, in the fluff written so far he will be almost as much of a political combatant as a warrior on the battlefield. Think very russian revolution, great patriotic war/bob hoskins in enemy at the gates sort of dealio.

Anyway going to spend the next couple of days trying to nut out a decent bronze for the armour of these guys.

The vehicles will be using a lot of russian (both mordern and WW2) fighter/bomber schemes. The vehicles will even have a lighter underside, sounds dumb on the ground, but when it is being transported, sort of makes sense :P.

The Thunder Warrior looks most promising. Is he your OC, or a canon character from a Black Library novel?

He is OC mate, I try to avoid canon characters!

Just came across this thread today and all throughout reading it I’ve been thinking your conversion style looks familiar - only upon seeing this most recent post do
I realise I’ve been keeping up with your work over on reddit. This project is absolutely stellar, these guys look great. Really excited to see where this goes and what they’ll look like with a lick of paint

Thanks mate! Yeah painting is my falling point which is vexing haha.

Cheers Trans!

This latest work of yours - the lord - is superb! Love everything about it

The recon guy is also nice, although I don't like the way his cloak is wrapped around his right leg. It's like this only this part of him is in a very strong wind.

Fantastic ideas across this whole project. Keep it up

Thanks mate! Yeah probably needs a little bit of chilling out in all honesty. WIll be revisited when the rest of the squad gets don. Cheers!

[Majkhel]

They are fantastic taking shape as a force and colour like that!

Love the addition of the eagle head on the banner and the shock. The Surgeon is awesome - so much character! Vehicles are also turning out nicely. T-6a Laska seems a tad small width-wise although that never bothered Warhammer vehicles too much ;) How does she compare to the size of a Rhino?

Great job overall! This is a fantastic project   

[ranulf the revenant]

Great additions :), especially the "sniper"  (that looks like a "panzerbüchse" :D)

[hushrong]

These are jaw dropping! The thunder warriors are sweet but oh man, their leader is jaw dropping. The flyers also have a nice, sleek design to them. Excited to see them with more paint on them!

[STC Logisengine]

Wonderful wonderful work! This is truly inspired!