Jorin Helm-splitter Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 With things like the Lord Discordant, my impression is they're trying to make the Chaos range more distinct than Spiky Loyal Marines. To that end, my thought is that they'll continue to run Chaos Marines using OldMarine marks but push the Loyalist versions further aside. It will go Full Primaris Head for the Loyalists, doubling down on that sleeker, tactic00l appearance, shedding more of the Gothic/ornate designs with the possible exception of whatever spin-off Chapters (Dark Angels, Black Templar, etc) get. In that way, OldMarine models will - literally - be heretical. Jervis implied that later primaris models will have more gothic details on the minis in the first podcast. He brought up the eliminators having prayer beads, in the second podcast I think they're trying to provide a base that works with several chapters. Then they will add more details to the veteran units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Chaplains getting them isn’t that out there. They already have “litanies”. A litany is a form of repetive listing prayer. Litanies give them abilities so yeah. Also, I don’t think they are as atheist as people claim. Yeah they don’t worship him like the ministorum, but they do think he is capable of hearing their prayers and defending them. Hence their “the emperor protects.” Also I want to say it doesn’t say “most” chapters don’t worship him, it said something more like, “many see him as the best human” or whoever. But that’s not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 I don't think chaplains getting them is a problem I just want their abilities to feel more grounded. Black Templars would be an obvious exception, that said SoB should be the faith reliant imperial fraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 A Chaplain's abilities may not necessarily be faith-based and do not have to represent divine intervention. The current abilities for rerolling misses in combat and providing a Ld bubble are explained as the Chaplain exhorting his charges, nothing mystical required! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Something for the Black Templars where the Chaplain could allow his marines to take some sort of vow before the battle perhaps ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolvar Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Our vows are stratagems atm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I think that all the recent Chaos releass have diverged greatly from loyalist Marines and I want GW to double down on this. The new focus for loyalists should be Primaris - a clean, futuristic look with hover vehicles and high-tech weapons, coming up against the traitors in ancient, baroque armour and warp infused weapons. I expect Primaris to get more bling on veteran style unit but they should keep the more logical, sci-fi flair throughout. As for releases, I just want GW to hurry up with Astartes codex 2.0 and additional Primaris releases to plug the gaps in the line. I actually feel that Primaris and loyalists in general are in a really rough spot at the moment and I'm shocked that GW has waited so long to update the line, models and rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Regardless of Primaris or Classic (not everything has to be about that argument for the love of the Emperor) I would love GW to actually go back to the gothic and edge if insanity 40K instead of this clean cut version that signifies the flag ship good guys of the company. More gothic weirdness not less. It's core to the setting. Let's not forget the introduction to 40K: "For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium, for whom a thousand souls die every day, for whom blood is drunk and flesh eaten. Human blood and human flesh – the stuff of which the Imperium is made. To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable. This is the tale of those times. It is a universe you can live today – if you dare – for this is a dark and terrible era where you will find little comfort or hope. If you want to take part in the adventure, then prepare yourself now. Forget the power of technology, science and common humanity. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for there is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting gods. But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed…" People who don't want that or forget it don't really understand 40K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Yes but we don't need a hard Gothic aesthetics on EVERY single human faction. Sisters are pretty gothic. Astartes can be cleaner. The Guard can look like world war 1 scifi forces. Chaos can be more baroque. Grim Dark and a Gothic aesthetic aren't synonymous, that's a mistake people make. I'm not suggesting the setting becomes less violent or dystopian. 40k will always be a terrible future. I think the range is richer for having more variety. I really think Sisters can do gothic far better and it's more fitting to them. Gothic is most linked to cathedrals and places of worship which doesn't suit general Astartes. For the record I personally prefer the 30k look of Astartes to the 40k version even prior to Primaris. There's nothing Gothic about Mk4 armour, Sicaran tanks and volkyte weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I'm fine with the clean look for Primaris for the basic guys as the basic Tactical Marines, Assault Marines and Devastators are pretty clean looking as well (which many seem to forget). Further Primaris releases should get more of the gothic look though, especially chapter specific units depending on the chapter (maybe not necessarily UM, IF and RW units, but definitely units for like BT and BA). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Yeah I'd enjoy a veteran unit that's more ornamental and covered in honours, but that look should stay with Veterans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Regardless of Primaris or Classic (not everything has to be about that argument for the love of the Emperor) I would love GW to actually go back to the gothic and edge if insanity 40K instead of this clean cut version that signifies the flag ship good guys of the company. More gothic weirdness not less. It's core to the setting. Let's not forget the introduction to 40K: "For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium, for whom a thousand souls die every day, for whom blood is drunk and flesh eaten. Human blood and human flesh – the stuff of which the Imperium is made. To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable. This is the tale of those times. It is a universe you can live today – if you dare – for this is a dark and terrible era where you will find little comfort or hope. If you want to take part in the adventure, then prepare yourself now. Forget the power of technology, science and common humanity. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for there is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting gods. But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed…" People who don't want that or forget it don't really understand 40K. Agreed. One only has to look at the 4th Edition Codex Space Marines, Codex Black Templars, and BRB to see page after page of baroque armored and cloaked super human warriors armed with anachronistic blades powered by energy fields and advanced rifles covered in scriptures. There is no other setting like it. For the first time Chaos looks like their art, and to 13 year old me its like coming home. I can only hope we get some older mark space marines that match the artwork aesthetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Casman Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Given that I expect more Adeptus Astartes to make the transition across the Rubicon Primaris in the lore, I fully expect them to want to keep what wargear they can. A pauldron here, a helmet there, a reliquary over here, an image of the face of the Emperor over there... The more gothic, the better, I think. Helps tie the Primaris Space Marines into the Dark Millenium, which I prefer to the Crusade-era look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Ok, Marshal. Admittedly the Black Templars do have a gothic, religious schtick. It does't apply to most Chapters, and it should be handled via an upgrade sprue and unique kits and units. I certainly don't want to see anything as silly as the OTT Sternguard or some of the HQs that look like walking churches again in my Astartes army, but that's not to say the option shouldn't exit for specific chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I'm not defending ootb Sternguard builds, but it was nice to drop money on a single box and have enough bits to make unique sergeants across a whole army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Ideally the option should be there to do both, for whoever prefers each look. For example, there is a wide range of bits in the classic marine line so you can make clean marines or more gothic ones, or anywhere in between really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Oh definitely. The choice should be available for folk who want less gothic personalisation of their army. But without the quasi religious insanity it's just not 40K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I concur. Without that it ends up becoming standard sci-fi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I concur. Without that it ends up becoming standard sci-fi. 40k will never be a standard scifi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Let’s hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Well AoS feels generic to me so I can imagine the road GW is taking with established tropes feeling like too big a departure, it could be a danger we face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 AoS isn't generic at all, its different. It's super high fantasy, a change from the more plausible lower fantasy of the past editions. It's just different and a lot more fantastical, pulling in elements and inspiration from places but never mundane. There's nothing generic about a rotting, un-dead horde under the mass delusion that they are glorious lords and ladies of high society and behave as such, for example lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Most AoS factions still lack the cultural depth of 40k factions. Thats what he means by generic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Most of the factions are new, and it will take time to build them up. Same thing happened with 40k, it wasn't what it is now from the get go. Patience, people! Patience. Same patience should be applied to Primaris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I have the white dwarf articles from when Epic and Imperial Guard/Orks were released for the first time that really shows that not to be the case at all. Orks and Eldar both hit the ground running. Epic had amazing lore baked in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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