What might the new Chaos releases mean for us?

[Robbienw]

Either way, Primaris are not a departure at all in style from existing generic Astartes units.

That’s not what we were talking about. We were saying they have less 40k gothicness in their available kits than classic marines, which is not so good if that the look you like your marines to have.

[Claws and Effect]

 

Either way, Primaris are not a departure at all in style from existing generic Astartes units.

That’s not what we were talking about. We were saying they have less 40k gothicness in their available kits than classic marines, which is not so good if that the look you like your marines to have.

Exactly.

 

Your average Space Marine is a mashup of Captain America and Sir Lancelot as written by Robert Heinlein.

 

The option should exist to go either way with it.

[Ishagu]

"Let's wait until we see some veteran and chapter unique units" is something I've been saying for the past two years.

 

So far we've seen some Ultramarine Honour Guard, and they are a fantastic and worthy upgrade over the old models.

 

I don't think people have anything to be concerned about beyond waiting. It took many, many years for the classic ranges to expand to their current breadth.

[Lord Raven 19]

I would give black templars acts of faith as they cannot take psychic powers.

[HighMarshalAmp]

I tend to favor a little bling on my units, which is why I'm deeply troubled by the Shadowspear units. Awesome design, very sleek, very modern, but near zero customization potential. The Eliminatiors can't even be outfitted with the stock Chapter upgrades but not all their pauldrons are entirely covered either.

I. Can't. Do. Freehand. I'm. Happy. With.

 

The point is that when more baroque kits eventually come along, odds are they'll be ott but you won't be able to part them out or use different parts on them with everything being monopose.

Leaving both the camp of sleek purists and the camp of ott decor nuts (like me) in the rain.

 

Otoh, Havocs being compatible with CSM is being made into some big thing (it probably really is these days) so if it's a selling point, it might catch on...

 

And to heap onto that discussion some more: Primaris are the future and that's good!

It's only when 10+ year old models don't get rules anymore that a huge part of the game's identity dies. Using metal models next to new releases has always been possible, and while GW do make money by selling minis, squatting their posterboys would not send a good message to any other faction and to neither veterans nor new players.

It would, however, be just along the lines of that shortsighted thinking that seems so ubiquitous these days.

[Marshal Reinhard]

I tend to favor a little bling on my units, which is why I'm deeply troubled by the Shadowspear units. Awesome design, very sleek, very modern, but near zero customization potential. The Eliminatiors can't even be outfitted with the stock Chapter upgrades but not all their pauldrons are entirely covered either.

I. Can't. Do. Freehand. I'm. Happy. With.

 

Can't argue, only point out that a full kit should be forthcoming.

[FlamingDeth]

To add on to what Amp said, of course things like Sternguard were over the top to the point of absurdity. Some people like that and the people that don't could mix and match parts with tactical marines to tone them down. With Primaris monobodies you won't be able to mix and match legs and torsos with intercessors or what have you to do that. Shoulder pads and heads can only go so far. It isn't a huge deal for those of us who are big converters -- for me any kit is multipart/pose with the proper application of saw, knife, card, and putty -- but your standard gamer won't be able to do it out of the box.

 

Also, looking at the pictures of the tac squad and intersessors side by side, yes, they share some obvious aesthetics. The big difference is variety, there's a number of different armor marks included in the tac squad. Even with the same pose they're not going to look identical.

[Marshal Reinhard]

The whole monopose legs thing is not unique  to primaris, its the future GW has chosen. chaos are like that, space marine heroes are like that.

[MARK0SIAN]

"Let's wait until we see some veteran and chapter unique units" is something I've been saying for the past two years.

 

But this is the big problem for me, GW are approaching Forgeworld levels of slowness in their Primaris roll out. I’ve done very little with Primaris because my original plan was to wait for it to be fleshed out with upgrades, unique units etc but it’s been 2 years and we haven’t even got a CC unit. Frankly I’m tired of waiting.

 

At this rate Forgeworld will have finished the Heresy game and moved on to the scouring before before Primaris are fully fleshed out and I’m only half joking with this. It feels like the entire Space Marine army iOS in a weird kind of limbo and it’s got no end in sight.

[Panzer]

To be fair for now GW defends their standpoint of Primaris being an addition to the current line of Marines so there simply is no need to release things faster.

[Red_Shift]

 

"Let's wait until we see some veteran and chapter unique units" is something I've been saying for the past two years.

But this is the big problem for me, GW are approaching Forgeworld levels of slowness in their Primaris roll out. I’ve done very little with Primaris because my original plan was to wait for it to be fleshed out with upgrades, unique units etc but it’s been 2 years and we haven’t even got a CC unit. Frankly I’m tired of waiting.

At this rate Forgeworld will have finished the Heresy game and moved on to the scouring before before Primaris are fully fleshed out and I’m only half joking with this. It feels like the entire Space Marine army iOS in a weird kind of limbo and it’s got no end in sight.

Yep. This. I keep waiting for the other boot to drop and I'm starting to get bored of hopping. Chainswords please!

[FlamingDeth]

The whole monopose legs thing is not unique to primaris, its the future GW has chosen. chaos are like that, space marine heroes are like that.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean people have to like it.

 

Re release schedule, it's seemed just fine so far, they've been releasing other things instead. Most other armies need updates way more than any space marine army.

[War Angel]

What do you mean they look to clean? Are you talking about paint jobs? The armor is literally the same otherwise minus extra details in the new stuff. Details that show GW has improved the quality of their models.

 

And the “slowness” of new models come out? You weren’t around in 3rd edition I take it.

[Robbienw]

GW improved the quality of their plastic models several years ago, Primaris aren’t a notable improvement over any recent marine (or other faction) kit from the last 7 or 8 years or so. Some armour marks have more detailing than others for design reasons. But better quality of detail? I’m not seeing it.

[War Angel]

Then what are you talking about with them being cleaner than previous marines.

[Robbienw]

I didn’t say that. I said it possible to make classic marines with a clean look or a more 40k gothic look because of the range of kits and parts available to them, whereas it’s not as possible to do with Primaris.

[Closet Skeleton]

But this is the big problem for me, GW are approaching Forgeworld levels of slowness in their Primaris roll out. I’ve done very little with Primaris because my original plan was to wait for it to be fleshed out with upgrades, unique units etc but it’s been 2 years and we haven’t even got a CC unit. Frankly I’m tired of waiting.

 

 

We have two close combat units, its the rules team's fault that they don't cut the mustard not the release schedule. But even then they're better in combat than assault marines which seem to be what the people waiting for a combat unit are looking for.

 

Veteran Intercessors are also pretty good in combat, just not enough to be a hammer unit but to be honest they don't have one of those at range either.

[Marshal Reinhard]

All classic marines have square box for a butt. Primaris have some buttox modelled. Better Quality 

[War Angel]

I didn’t say that. I said it possible to make classic marines with a clean look or a more 40k gothic look because of the range of kits and parts available to them, whereas it’s not as possible to do with Primaris.

Give it time, these are the first kits for them. The first space marine kits had zero options. In the meantime, you probably have a slew of spare parts left over, the ability to mold your own, or third party resources.

[MARK0SIAN]

 

 

But this is the big problem for me, GW are approaching Forgeworld levels of slowness in their Primaris roll out. I’ve done very little with Primaris because my original plan was to wait for it to be fleshed out with upgrades, unique units etc but it’s been 2 years and we haven’t even got a CC unit. Frankly I’m tired of waiting.

 

We have two close combat units, its the rules team's fault that they don't cut the mustard not the release schedule. But even then they're better in combat than assault marines which seem to be what the people waiting for a combat unit are looking for.

 

Veteran Intercessors are also pretty good in combat, just not enough to be a hammer unit but to be honest they don't have one of those at range either.

They’re only described as CC units, they aren’t actually CC units, Aggressors are just shooty units who’ve got power fists attached and Reivers are an infiltration unit.

 

Not one of them can realistically go toe to toe with dedicated CC units from other factions. Now maybe it is the rules but i would say it’s the design of those elements in the first place that’s preventing them from being proper CC units. You can’t have a true CC units that’s also great at shooting (Aggressors) and you can’t have a true CC that is an advanced infiltration unit too.

 

Now I’m not expecting Custodes levels of CC ability but I do expect them to be dedicated CC units who can get into the thick of it with an opponent and wreak some havoc.

[Ishagu]

In fairness no Marine units can go toe to toe with dedicated assault units in other factions. That's not limited to Primaris.

[Claws and Effect]

In fairness no Marine units can go toe to toe with dedicated assault units in other factions. That's not limited to Primaris.

My wife's Sanguinary Guard disagree with that assertion. Not Codex Marines, but still a Marine unit.

 

Could say the same about Thinderwolf Cavalry and Wulfen.

 

You are correct if you are limiting the discussion to just units found in Codex Ultramarines (And Friends).

[MARK0SIAN]

In fairness no Marine units can go toe to toe with dedicated assault units in other factions. That's not limited to Primaris.

Yes I agree with that, if you’re talking about the standard codex. This makes it even more pressing that we get one that can and Primaris seem like the ideal candidate for one, I’m baffled why it’s taking so long.

[Ciler]

The fact that people have been repeating that primaris have no CC unit is also I think linked with the visual aspect of the units. Sure veteran intercessors can (under the right circumstances) dish a lot of CC attacks, but presumably by punching their opponents in the face. It would be nice to have a unit with decent CC performance and something vaguely resembling a knife/sword/hammer/axe. Reivers were in that regard a CC unit, the problem being that (much like assault marines) they were not a particularly effective one from a rule perspective.

[Closet Skeleton]

Veteran Intercessors have the exact same number of attacks as knife reivers, its just that they can use their guns to wear the opponent down to the point where that's enough.

 

 

They’re only described as CC units, they aren’t actually CC units, Aggressors are just shooty units who’ve got power fists attached and Reivers are an infiltration unit.

Not one of them can realistically go toe to toe with dedicated CC units from other factions. Now maybe it is the rules but i would say it’s the design of those elements in the first place that’s preventing them from being proper CC units. You can’t have a true CC units that’s also great at shooting (Aggressors) and you can’t have a true CC that is an advanced infiltration unit too.

Now I’m not expecting Custodes levels of CC ability but I do expect them to be dedicated CC units who can get into the thick of it with an opponent and wreak some havoc.

 

Flamer Aggressors are purely a close range unit, if flame weapons weren't overpriced in general and they extra attacks like the two weapons suggest then they would totally be a melee unit.

 

Reivers have a close combat option, the infiltration part means that they should be specialised at hitting weak points that don't have the ability to stand up in combat at all. But with 8th ed screening tactics that isn't going to happen.

 

Shining Spears and Vexilus Praetors don't care about any ideas that a unit can't do everything.

 

In fairness no Marine units can go toe to toe with dedicated assault units in other factions. That's not limited to Primaris.

 

Yes they can, genestealers and slugga boys are very vulnerable to countercharge from marines and hammernators can hold ground against a lot of close combat units (but not genestealers).

 

Hammernators can stop a charging knight and pummel it, its just that knight armies will include at least one Gatling cannon which is perfectly stated for shooting apart hammernators.

 

You don't see a lot of Incubi, Striking Scorpions or Howling Banshees despite those being in 'the good codexes', assault units aren't great this edition in general unless they're really fast.