What might the new Chaos releases mean for us?

[Marshal Reinhard]

Didn’t they say we were getting additional models outside of the shadow spear box? Something like “this is only a small taste”. Any idea on when we get the rest of it?

 

after the chaos revamp is done at very earliest.

[Volt]

Gravis Armor isn't anything like Terminator armor because its save stats suck and it doesn't boost wounds - it's only buff is toughness 5 which isn't much to write home about. And they don't work like terminators at all due to lacking teleporter assaults, storm shields, or anything besides basic small arms fire. Primaris Terminators should be Toughness 4 or maybe 5, but have 3 wounds and a 2+ with either a 5++ or a 4++ to make them truly useful units and proper Terminators. Toughness 5 in of itself is worthless because the biggest threat to marine units is massed small arms fire. If your opponent is slinging lascannons at your terminators it means that they've either seriously screwed up their target priority and ought to be slapped - or they have already taken our your big bad unit and now you're seriously screwed. But generally speaking I'm worried about the BRRRRT than the FREEM with marines, so a 2+ is more valuable than T5 if forced to choose.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

T5 being important for Marines has to do with plasma, not lascannons. An overcharged plasma shot wounds T4 on a 2+ and does D2, killing a Terminator or Primaris in one shot. Upping the toughness of some units to T5 lessens the chance for plasma to deliver its killing blow.

[Closet Skeleton]

For me the main issue is one:

Why veterans should wear terminator armor when havoc armor (that I assume it derives from HH void harness armor, so even loyalist should have it) is absolutely better?

 

So I hope to see some primaris new termy suits with appropriate rules and price.

 

Havoc armour isn't a thing. Havocs have normal power armour and are defensively weaker than gravis armour, they're different from normal devastators thanks to warp mutations which loyalists shouldn't have.

[War Angel]

Sadly, I think any proper terminator equivalent Primaris marine would replace the terminator, and thus not follow the current rule of GW not wanting to invalidate old marines. This leaves the Gravis marines at a shorter range, with less armor, and without deepstrike/teleportation shenanigans.

 

I don’t think they are worth the points, their weapons have less range and AP compacted to intercessors, while having more shots to compensate.

[Danarc]

 

For me the main issue is one:

Why veterans should wear terminator armor when havoc armor (that I assume it derives from HH void harness armor, so even loyalist should have it) is absolutely better?

 

So I hope to see some primaris new termy suits with appropriate rules and price.

 

Havoc armour isn't a thing. Havocs have normal power armour and are defensively weaker than gravis armour, they're different from normal devastators thanks to warp mutations which loyalists shouldn't have.

 

Do +1T and shoot if moved without penalty derive from mutation?

 

Sadly, I think any proper terminator equivalent Primaris marine would replace the terminator, and thus not follow the current rule of GW not wanting to invalidate old marines. This leaves the Gravis marines at a shorter range, with less armor, and without deepstrike/teleportation shenanigans.

 

I don’t think they are worth the points, their weapons have less range and AP compacted to intercessors, while having more shots to compensate.

I agree, but the invalidation of old marines is in the field. 

Gravis armor can't be the replacement of Termy, for the all good reasons already explained (and in particular the lack of AIP and 2+). But GW probably doesn't care or doesn't understood this. 

[Closet Skeleton]

 

 

For me the main issue is one:

Why veterans should wear terminator armor when havoc armor (that I assume it derives from HH void harness armor, so even loyalist should have it) is absolutely better?

 

So I hope to see some primaris new termy suits with appropriate rules and price.

 

Havoc armour isn't a thing. Havocs have normal power armour and are defensively weaker than gravis armour, they're different from normal devastators thanks to warp mutations which loyalists shouldn't have.

 

Do +1T and shoot if moved without penalty derive from mutation?

 

That's what I was saying. The rule is called 'stabilization talons' and the models have mutated feet.

 

Havocs have always had fluff about them fusing with their weapons and armour, they haven't changed their fluff just their rules.

[MARK0SIAN]

Them being tougher than Terminators is just wrong though, it’s a step too far imo. It has a huge negative knock on effect for loyalists because most basic guns will now be wounding them on a 5. A standard marine bolter is now no better than a laspistol against them which is ridiculous.

[Red_Shift]

A few years ago gw updated a lot of the classic marines with IIRC New tactical, assault and devastating sets. The terminators were left alone which makes me think they may be in line for an update.

Gravus just aren't terminators. They are an up armoured mark ten rather than a new thing entirely. I agree with the centurion comparison as that is effectively what they are (but far better executed imo).

[Volt]

Gravis can also perform multiple roles, as Inceptors demonstrate. They have more in common with MK 3 armor and boarding companies than Terminators, who only field one real role - super heavy assault and fire support. Unless you mass produce tartaros terminators, they can't perform any other role due to their reduced speed.

[Ishagu]

A few years ago gw updated a lot of the classic marines with IIRC New tactical, assault and devastating sets. The terminators were left alone which makes me think they may be in line for an update.

Travis just aren't terminators. They are an up armoured mark ten rather than a new thing entirely. I agree with the centurion comparison as that is effectively what they are (but far better executed imo).

GW didn't update the classic Termies but they gave BA a new kit, as well as giving all chapters Tartaros and Cataphractii kits. BA and SW already had unique variants on top. I doubt there's a new kit coming but season 2 of SM heroes can provide nice, new Terminator models.