What might the new Chaos releases mean for us?

[Ishagu]

And there's plenty of lore on Primari chapters too. They've still not been fleshed out fully.

 

A big difference is GW used to write about and create rules for stuff that didn't have a model. We know that's not the case anymore, and the hobby is better for it.

I can't stand 30k anymore for this reason.

You have any idea how much money I spent trying to make models for the Ultramarine exclusive Terminator units? Screw that, not doing it again! Should have seen my joy after the Custodes and Thousand Sons made my army completely un-competitive, and with 8th arriving it turned me away from the HH. But that's going off topic...

 

The Primaris future is bright. It's just damn slow

[Captain Idaho]

I know this is off topic but are there actually Ultramarines specific rules for HH Terminators or are you just converting? Also where can I find the rules?

[Marshal Rohr]

I know this is off topic but are there actually Ultramarines specific rules for HH Terminators or are you just converting? Also where can I find the rules?

 

5-10 Terminators with CML and Targeters/Combi-Weapons, or Reaper Auto-Cannons. Can't Remember if the Reapers have Power Fists or Targeters. Either way, they bring the rain. 

[Ishagu]

They are called Fulmentarus Terminators.

 

And after years of having rules published they still don't have official models.

[War Angel]

You bring up how GW isn’t doing rules for things they don’t have models for. In the brining of the Primaris line, we didn’t have a model for sergeants with CC weapons. Now we do and the rules reflect. I hold out hope that they will release models for other squads with CC options.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Dirty and gritty and dark gothic, barroque and full of character and true to the lore and soul of 40k

Cleand and bright, generic soulless sci-fi that has lost it's way

Know the difference, it can save your life!

(And yeah, I know the topic moved on a bit, and yeah I know I've made this argument before.... I just... can't stop my eyes from rolling reading some of what's posted....)

[War Angel]

Are you being sarcastic?

[Marshal Reinhard]

I'll admit my delivery might flirt with the concept of sarcasm.

 

But, my point is mostly that space marines are space marines are space marines. Then AND now.

 

Like, could everyone just chill and ground your opinions in the physical reality before they claim its so damned polarized?

[Ishagu]

Lol that's actually very funny. It does illustrate very well that some negativity is greatly overblown.

[Robbienw]

Its a bit more nuanced than comparing the default base looks of the two standard kits from classic and primaris. 

 

Primaris maintain the look with hellblasters, and go even further with the clean sci-fi look in other units. 

 

Classic marines maintain the tactical look or go more gothic with their veteran and chapter specific units.  If you want to make your veteran and command units more like the tactical look you can use more tac squad bits on them to achieve that.  And the other way around if you want your tactical marines to look more gothic you can use your veteran bits on them to achieve that.

 

I think that's what people are talking about.  Obviously it can get polarised, this is internet discussion after all :lol:  But I think if Primaris had the capability to look sci-fi or more Gothic that classic marines do, you would see less complaint on the issue.

[Marshal Reinhard]

or go more gothic with their veteran and chapter specific units.

 

Let's wait until Primaris actually have such units then, perhaps?

 

Closest thing we have are Calgars victrix guard?

 

 

Unless we're saying the problem is "Primaris doesn't have veteran or chapter specific units, which they should", to which I say:

 

"Yeah."

[Ishagu]

Seeing as there are currently no veteran Primaris kits, by that logic there is no departure in style whatsoever.

[Claws and Effect]

Personally, I just wish GW supported more than a handful of the hundreds of official canon Chapters.

 

There is support for the Big 4 Chapters (Ultras, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Wolves), but beyond them there is almost nothing.

 

If you want to play a First Founding Chapter you at least have Forgeworld to fall back on. But if you want to go further afield there is nothing.

 

Their stance on third party bits makers is, honestly, a little hypocritical. Because it's basically: "Play any Chapter you want, but if we don't support it we'll sue anyone else who tries to make you conversion parts for it."

[Ishagu]

Unfortunately their stance is limited by ip ownership and copyright laws.

[Robbienw]

Guess we will have to wait and see, however there are already rules for using your plain intercessor kit as veterans with no look departure.  I'm not convinced anymore that we will see specific primaris veteran unit kits, its an if rather than a certainty imo.

 

My point stands regardless, there is much less capability to make primaris units gothic looking. 

 

Its a look some people like and if I was a primaris fan, I would want primaris to be able to do that look as well, even if I preferred the sci-fi plain look, just to get more people on board liking and buying them.

[Claws and Effect]

Unfortunately their stance is limited by ip ownership and copyright laws.

If toy companies can make action figures of comic and movie characters, there is zero reason why GW can't license third party companies to make stuff they don't want to.

[Marshal Reinhard]

At the very least, produce (up to date) upgrade kits and such for all the factions (or is it subfactions with C:SM chapters?) that you have rules for in your codex. You don't even have transfers for them anymore in their respective kits. I mean really?

[Panzer]

Guess we will have to wait and see, however there are already rules for using your plain intercessor kit as veterans with no look departure.  I'm not convinced anymore that we will see specific primaris veteran unit kits, its an if rather than a certainty imo.

 

My point stands regardless, there is much less capability to make primaris units gothic looking. 

 

Its a look some people like and if I was a primaris fan, I would want primaris to be able to do that look as well, even if I preferred the sci-fi plain look, just to get more people on board liking and buying them.

 

There were also rules for Veteran Sergeants before 8th edition and still no fancy bits in those Tactical boxes. Rules are rules, models are models. ^^

[Marshal Reinhard]

Guess we will have to wait and see, however there are already rules for using your plain intercessor kit as veterans with no look departure.  I'm not convinced anymore that we will see specific primaris veteran unit kits, its an if rather than a certainty imo.

 

My point stands regardless, there is much less capability to make primaris units gothic looking. 

 

Its a look some people like and if I was a primaris fan, I would want primaris to be able to do that look as well, even if I preferred the sci-fi plain look, just to get more people on board liking and buying them.

 

I'm glad that your answer to: "Primaris doesn't have veteran or chapter specific units, which they should" is also "yeah"

[Robbienw]

My answer is not Yeah.

My answer to that question would be I do not care if they get them or not

I’m just pointing out that currently you can do clean to gothic classic marines, but you can’t really do that with Primaris. What might happen in future is academic.

 

I was saying comparing just the tactical and intercessor squads and saying classics and primaris have the same level of decoration was wrong, and I was saying Primaris fans should want GW to make more gothic Primaris units so people who like that look will buy them (because primaris fans would want the line to be as successful as possible). I don’t collect them, so I don’t mind if GW don’t do it.

[Marshal Reinhard]

We will never be friends 

 

[Ishagu]

I'm not sure there's such a thing as gothic Marines.

Black Templars almost hit that theme but it's their paint scheme and symbols doing most of the work.

 

The veteran kits like Sternguard look ridiculous. Some characters also look really silly and OTT.

[Robbienw]

DA are the most 40k Gothic in my opinion, followed by Templars.  BA have an element of it to them as well in some units.

[Ishagu]

Yeah DA are, I suppose. I don't see it in Blood Angels, they are more Italian renaissance style in their unique units.

 

Either way, Primaris are not a departure at all in style from existing generic Astartes units. Complaints are redundant.

[Claws and Effect]

I'm not sure there's such a thing as gothic Marines.

Black Templars almost hit that theme but it's their paint scheme and symbols doing most of the work.

 

The veteran kits like Sternguard look ridiculous. Some characters also look really silly and OTT.

If you want to get right down to it, the entire PREMISE of 40k is over the top.

 

Just look at the slews of comparisons with other sci-fi franchises you can find. In almost every "who would win?" comparison, 40k runs away with it precisely because it is so over the top and left realism far behind.

 

I totally get wanting Imperium models to have a gothic feel to them, because every piece of lore until recently paints their view of technology as more like religious artifacts than just tools to do a job.

 

In present day reality, a gun is a gun. Maybe it was once used by a Medal of Honor winner or a celebrity or something, but it's still just a gun. In the Imperium, a gun that is functionally identical to one just produced could be older than the Tau's entire civilization and have so much significance attached to it that it is pretty much a holy relic. A gun like that in a society like the Imperium is going to be covered in scripture and treated with the same reverence we view the Dead Sea Scrolls (for example).

 

The Primaris looking clean and sleek is an aberration when viewed through the lense of the Imperium.

 

Edit:

 

Just thought of the best argument in favor of a gothic ascetic for Space Marine models.

 

Just look at the Imperium's spacecraft. It's a bit odd to have sleek, high tech super soldiers traveling through space in what are effectively spacefaring Dark Age cathedrals.