BSB Speculation

[ATPete]

 

I doubt it will happen, but it'd be nice if each of the six major orders received a special character like Martyred Lady is.

 

This is my "concern" with Junith Eruita. That pulpit is very cool, but will it work for non-OoML lists? I'm already struggling with sticking to Argent Shroud because of my crappy-looking silver vehicles, and if OoML end up getting all the character love, I may just give up and go OoML for the plastics at least... as boring as being the vanilla option is.

 

 

 You could change the vehicle colours to something else tied with their scheme, maybe everyone's favourite to paint White lol

I'm likely opting for a light grey with white and red details when I get around to it. Pure silver tanks look too garish for my linking.

[ThePenitentOne]

If OoOML are not your bag, just put the character in a separate detachment. Still may limit her effectiveness- her buffs might only affect her order, but also maybe not because that would mean ecclesiarchy couldn't get benefits. Might be less frustrating than playing a whole army that you don't particularly like.

 

I'm actually not quite as much a fan of hover pulpit- I mean, I like it enough to buy it and field it when it fits my story, but the only non-eldar hover I like are bike style models. I might try a coversion of some sort once I have the kit in my hand.

 

Regarding waiting for Order Traits before choosing faction, I'd go one further: you also want to check strat, wl trait and relic interactivity.

 

This is going back a couple pages, but regarding: "If you're using Sacrifice, you're loosing, so it's not worth it"

 

Remember that we don't know "other things" we can do with Miracle Dice. So let's say that you can use them to guarantee that your exorcists get 6 shots. You telling me you'd shed a tear for a fallen Hospitaller or Dialogus to jump from a 1-6 chance of max 6 damage to a guaranteed 6-36? Heck, I'd put her down myself if it would drop a knight on turn 1 with a single unit.

 

Not all characters with AoF are expensive power houses. And if you don't shoot any of my 3 dialogi or my 3 hospitallers, or elite priests or mistresses [though these may have been rolled into squads], because you're afraid to hand me auto 6's, well you're going to have other types of problems.

 

Now obviously this is exaggerated for effect- even with 6 guaranteed shots, not all will wound, and some might be saved, etc,  and obviously, I'm not going to load up quite that much on characters, but the point still stands.

[CaptainMarsh]

The consistent rumor for the Exorcist is 3d3 shots.

[Lemondish]

I'm not sure there's any value in assessing what miracle dice gains are like before we know the rules for the Dialogus, Imagifier, the special characters, the Warlord traits, the relics, the Stratagems, the order rules, or even wargear like the Simulacrum Imperialis. All of those have, at one time or another, interacted with the Act of Faith mechanic in 8th edition before. To assume they no longer will is taking a bit of a leap of faith and hoping gravity forgot to wake up this morning.

 

With so much not yet known I'm wondering why we're so set on crapping all over this mechanic. At this point we barely know more than the name of the rule and folks have managed to already make up their minds about its efficacy? Seems knee jerk pessimism for the sake of it. If I didn't know any better, I'd say it's straight up heretical. You wouldn't want me to call over the Inquisitor, would you?

[ValourousHeart]

Also it is a nice throwback to the Witch Hunters codex.  Back then our acts of faith, or whatever they were called at the time, had an over / under mechanic which made some easier when we were winning and others easier when we were losing.  I like the idea of our faith benefiting us no matter what.

 

 

Pointing out that the Exorcist on the back left has an alternate, Bare-headed driver option. Also the immo is kitted out with heavy bolters on the turret - nothing new, but nice to see it keeps the options. All 3 vehicles still have front mounted heavy bolters, so we still don’t know if those can be changed for flamers, etc.

I find it interesting that the imagifier is back! Now we have both that AND a simulacrum - I wonder what different rules they will affect?

These models are beautiful and I cannot wait to build my army.

 

Well GW moved most of the unique models like the banner bearers out of squads.  So they figured they would do the same for sisters.  Except that it make sense that sister would carry religious artifacts into battle with them.  So I'm glad that they gave us both.  I like that it makes us just a little more different.

 

I'm chomping at the bit to see what GW is going to reveal next.

 

I may change my mind after reading the codex, but at the moment I think I'll be getting 1 of everything, and then build up from there.  With my other armies I've very discerning on what I purchase.  So I really don't know how much I'm committing to here.

 

I'm not as worried at this point on scale differences, as I am on how much my painting skills have changed since I painted my first sister model.  I really don't want to strip those old models, or even rebase them.  We'll see.

[Montford]

One thought on the Miracles mechanic: they are providng 12 dice, so I assume they expect us to need at least half that at any one time. Its another reason I suspect we'll have a certain amount of Miracle dice to start a game in addition to the described method of accruing them during play.

[ThePenitentOne]

OMG! Just zoomed on the Imagifier; mounting that sisters sized statue on a flying base and painting it in flesh tones instead of stone would make a sweet generic living saint model if GW doesn't give us one of those too.

[Mekhitar]

WT: each time you spend a miracle dice, on a 5+ you get to keep it?

 

Really, we have no idea what to expect. It could be anything. I’m excited.

[Atrus]

I wonder if they'll bring back Celestine old rule where when she died and didn't come back the army would lose a certain amount of Faith Points. Could easily translate to miracle dice.?

[Lightbox]

As someone who's played a lot of Tzeentch in AoS with their destiny dice mechanic I'm quite looking forward to trying out the miracle dice. I think being able to replace rolls when you need them will have far more use than the old chance of +1 to hit or very low chance of some rerolls. And if It's anything like the tzeentch version there will be lots of ways to replace them / get more from warlord traits or if we're considering how many AoF subfactions there were in the beta I wouldn't be surprised if at least one can get you extra miracle dice in some way. 

 

We also have strategems to consider, I think it's way too early to claim miracle dice won't be good in some way (but also too early to assume they'll be super amazing) I think they've a lot of potential and I'm quite looking forward to seeing how the codex turns out (it might get me back to playing more 40k).

 

New units excite me for sure, I'm not so sold on Pulpit lady buuuut I think that's mostly the hairstyle so like replace that with a canoness hood or helmet and I'm all sold (but probably won't be going martyred lady so kinda moot). Zephyrim sound interesting and I'd be very surprised if they weren't some kind of alternate jump infantry with their similar name to sephirim. Regardless It's wonderful to see we definitely are getting new units as it was something I remember there being a lot of worry we wouldn't.

[Slasher956]

Just to go back on a point about negativity.... and my comments on what was the likely hood of dominons being removed from the codex due to the transfer sheet (note it wasnt supposed to come across as ...waw this is deffo happenin)

 

The most up beat chat about the Sisters in the last 3 months has been due to leaks... first the china leak about the box content and now the GW store leak with the picture of our new floating pulpit girl....

 

This coupled with the lack of any real info in the BSB is a large chunk of the reason why there has been so much negativity around the sisters release... I must admit going off their 'best news on a new codex ever' telling us nothing I was honestly expecting zero new units and just the current metal models re sculpted in plastic...and that was before they showed us the same plastic rhino that has been around for years...

 

So anyway before I go off to eat my hat whilst trying to work out how to pay off my wedding, credit card & spend time with the wife so I can get all of the wonderful new units :)

 

 

I'm thinking with the flying pulpit for non OooML orders you could not fit the flamer turret on the bottom then rather than put the pulpit on the flying stem fit it directly to the ground.  Then put a generic Canoness stepping up from the last step in to the pulpit as though she's about to give a sermon :)

[Lemondish]

Despite not finishing the current project I'm on, I think it's time to bust out Sister Superior Amalia Novena to test out some painting schemes...

[MoshJason]

Super excited about new models, little bmed the war pulpit might only be OoML, trying to think of something to convert it into? Maybe just as part of a super ornate tank...

[Purifying Tempest]

Been mulling over MD and trying to figure ways to use ALL rolls, not just 6s or 1s.  So, here's my list of really crappy things to do with faith dice:

 

1) Force vehicle to not explode (especially if you can use it for things like AM Hellhounds sitting in your lines, conversely, 4s are good for Hellhounds in your opponent's lines), and the all-to-obvious morale.

 

2) I, uh, got like nothing for how 2s are useful.  They are probably the most useless roll in the game :)  But they are still slightly worse versions of 1s in this case.

 

3) Inferno pistol hit rolls (characters and such) where you REALLY need that 1 hit to land or wound, or... whatever.  Also, if there are any sort of hymn or stratagem rolls where you need to hit to activate (flak missiles?) this can take the guess work out of those... since you don't want to stake 1 CP to activate it, and then 1 CP to reroll it because you rock at rolling 1s at critical moments

 

4) Forcing things like Hellhounds to explode (if you can cross it over to that roll), and my PERSONAL favorite: automatic pass of the psychic denial stratagem.  That 1CP strat costs me 2CP 90% of the time.  Having a MD laying around on a 4 definitely should tell your opponent: "I will shut one power down, choose wisely".

 

5) This threatens just about any character with inferno/melta weapons.  Your opponent has to respect it because hitting and wounding with this weapons is relatively easy, though somewhat unreliable, and if they don't have an invul or fail it... you can just force the character dead without playing with fate.

 

6) Forcing other vehicles to explode, forcing bad morale losses in the event something else keys off of you losing units to morale (I have no idea), and basically auto-tiering any vehicle.  I'm sure the list goes on for 6s, they're the most desirable roll in the game (besides actually making Shield of Faith not absolutely terrible - I can now auto-deny Smite/the new Eldar discipline unless the other person blows rerolls on them to get those cast rolls over 6).  The psychic thing is more posturing, and will not see play MUCH, but it does make SoF much better vs 5 casts than it previously was, and there's a whole new psychic discipline comprised of a lot of WC5- powers (and largely they suck, but they exist).

 

I think MD are going to be very good the more aware and savvy the player is about capturing momentum with them at critical moments, regardless of the face they actually burn... and knowing how to use MD on any and all faces is probably going to be very important to play the army well.  And always keep in mind that MD, well played, are subsidizing CP on blown critical rolls.  So instead of "risking" the one roll and then backing it up with CP, I just sub in a MD and force the result while conserving that CP for stratagems.

 

Generating them looks like a giant pain, however.  I'm hoping there's a few ways to add more, like through Imagifiers or Simulacrums, or even relics and WTs.  Like as a base... it looks like it will be useful... but not at a level that it can have enough of an impact to offset the ho-hum army rules that were previewed so far.

 

I still really like the MD rule so far, and think it does a good job at representing what GW wanted it to.  How that rolls out on the table has yet to be seen, especially when you look at the other army rules and realize they're practically the same from the CA beta-dex.  I was a little disappointed that yesterday's preview was less substance and more "look at this pretty, cool model while we name drop a few other units that won't be out for awhile yet".  I was disappointed that it was a character that would, sensible, be Order-locked... with the amazing lack of options in the HQ slot... the last thing I wanted to see was another unique character... and even less than that was a unique character with a predetermined Order trait.  Overall, I'm probably at about a 6 on a scale of 1-10.. just slightly excited.  I've never been at a 8+ during this, though, I already have a ton of metal models and I have no plans of getting rid of them, replacing them, or integrating them in with the plastic ones... I'll probably just keep a plastic army and a metal army done in different schemes.

[Slasher956]

You cant interfer with your opponents rolls... (see FAQ about spending the CP to force an opponent to re-roll) & the roll to explode (or not) is done by the vehicle controller......

[MoshJason]

2's will be somewhat useful:

 

1) Canoness Hits on 2s! So, inferno pistol relic blade Canoness, you can guarantee a hit with your weapon, or guarantee that the inferno pistol wounds vs another character.

 

2)Cover saves! Someone shooting some ap-0 shots at the girls who are in cover on an important objective? That's one less cover save you have to worry about! This is even better in Cities of Death, as cover is a +2, so this helps vs ap-1 as well.

 

3)Morale! Sometimes an important squad has lost just enough models that if you roll a 4 or higher, you'll lose that objective. Well, a 2 for morale will keep you there, or at least, limit the number of people leaving.

 

 

I'm sure there are some other edgecases, like when shooting an over charged plasma pistol from a Canoness (but why not take inferno?!) OR dealing 2 damage to someone with 2 wounds left as a guarantee you don't roll a one, but the above three seem fairly reasonable to me. Obvs a 2 is not as good as a six, but its better than a 1!

[Purifying Tempest]

I'm not messing with his rolls, I like to ally in AM for Catachan Hellhounds to roll up with my Immolators.  Being able to control the explodiness of my Hellhound would be a godsend.  I don't know if I can use a MD to manipulate the explosion roll of my own Hellhound, that has yet to be seen, but it is a use for those middling numbers, if possible.

 

Edit: I just point out Hellhounds because AM is super popular, and Hellhounds are a pretty good tank, and bring more burny goodness to the Sororitas!  But their failing, for me, is usually when my opponent targets them early in the game before I've had a chance to clear away from them, and they always roll that 4+ and I have to CP that away.  Or when you finally limp it into "danger close" range for your opponent and it whiffs that 4+ even after a CP.  Really, I see MD as a way to save a ton of CP from command rerolls, because I know I spent a lot on "forcing timely rolls" with the CP.

[Slasher956]

I have a feeling MD will be limited to units with AoF ability....

[Lemondish]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/14/battle-sisters-on-the-battlefield-part-2gw-homepage-post-1/

 

Part 2, now with Miracle Dice for every occasion. And you all were worried there'd be no other ways to generate with this mechanic. I tried to tell you, subtly, that this wouldn't be true, but the Faith isn't as strong here as it should be ;)

[TheFinisher4Ever]

Everything here looks pretty great but I am a little sad that Indomitable Belief only works on infantry now. Hopefully we will have some other tricks to make us more survivable.

[Lemondish]

OooML (which I keep wanting to actually sound out in my head as I write) looks to get more miraculous and dangerous as the game goes on. Depending on how the number of special weapons in larger squads shakes out, it might actually be beneficial to consider larger, more resilient units rather than the MSU focus of today...after all, if an opponent feels compelled to overkill units to deny you Acts of Faith fuel and more effective shooting, best make sure they use more resources to do it.

 

Also seems the army will continue to have a decent enough number of ways to return a model/unit to the battlefield from dead and at least frequent enough to need to be spelled out specifically in the rule.

 

As for Argent Shroud - it's straightforward, bold, and I like it very much. I like the idea of extremely mobile and accurate Retributors. 

[Slasher956]

OooML - damned if they do (you get 1 MD) damned if they dont (iether you get +1 to hit or your unit is untouched)

 

Indomibale belief ... makes it a bit less of a stapled gunline WLT... 

[MoshJason]

OooML - damned if they do (you get 1 MD) damned if they dont (iether you get +1 to hit or your unit is untouched)

 

Indomibale belief ... makes it a bit less of a stapled gunline WLT...

Bringing it out to 12" makes it even more autoinclude, sadly though.

 

I want to like the +1 Miracle Dice + litanies of faith combo, but having a 5++ bubble that's 24" across is pretty serious, and even more so with Seraphim or Celestine, provided she still does the same...

[Montford]

Argent Shroud players can have Retibutor Multi Meltas with a 48" threat range. :)

[ValourousHeart]

OooML - damned if they do (you get 1 MD) damned if they dont (iether you get +1 to hit or your unit is untouched)

 

Indomibale belief ... makes it a bit less of a stapled gunline WLT... 

 

Am I reading that right, OooML characters give 2 MD when killed?

 

Litanies giving you 1 reroll on a MD per turn is nice, assuming they mean I get 1 reroll on my turn and 1 reroll pm your turn.

I think they would have said 1 per battle round if they didn't mean that.

 

I know we have the hospitaler, and in the past we have had other ways of healing / reviving models.

I wounder what other ways we are going to have for that now.