The Primarchs: Lion El'Jonson

[Knockagh]

I’ve tried to read this now three times. Each time I hit chapter 5 or 6 and give up. It’s not bad it’s dull. Oh so terribly dull. I will probably give it another go in 6 months or so but for now it’s back on the shelf. Dull dull dull.

[b1soul]

Sad we'll never get a Thramas-focused HH novel by ADB. Would've been a hell of a first DA book in a hypothetical HH series.

[jaxom]

Just finished the book this weekend and re-read the thread. 

 

Here's my spoiler free reaction: this makes for a great tetraptych with Valdor, Horus Rising, and Thousand Sons about the ideological foundations of the Imperium.

 

Spoiler reaction; also I got rid of spoiler tags in quotes to make this easier.

 

This should have been the Dark Angel Horus Heresy novel. It functions very well in that role, but for the same reason is a terrible Primarch novella. It's burdened by being the first coherent novel fully integrating FW's background material. It can't focus on the past of the Lion and how its impacted him and his legion, becaase they were so poorly dealt with in earlier books. 

 

 

Great post, Indefragable. Your idea of the hounds and the hunters seems fitting. 

 

I'd say you are also right in the respective primarchs hyping up their role - although Russ seems to act more as an internal sanction, the DAs are more of an overall sanction with more focus on forces outside the Imperium. If you send the Wolves after someone, you also publicly sanction someone. What the DAs do, is very much hushed up. Fitting for their use of banned and forbidden weaponry.

 

If I remember correctly, the Dreadwing even possesses some weaponry in their vaults, that the Mechanicum doesn't know of - partially for the reason to use it against them, should they ever rebel. StrangerOrders might correct me on that, but I'm pretty sure it was mentioned in some throw-away lines, when the Master of the Dreadwing and the Psyker protagonist entered the vaults aboard the Invincible Reason.

 

This is why I think the book goes well with those I listed in the non-spoiler. The First Legion, and by extension the Lion, seemed to me to be presented as exterminators of ideological threats. Some truths are too terrible to know is a running theme in the books dealing with the Imperium's founding and the close of Unity. It fits well with the Emperor planning for an eventual war with Mars; their religion was always bound for a schism with the secular Imperium. The Dark Angels, as erasers of ideas, get the Terran-education (Tech-wrights in the Ironwing) and Terran supplies for this eventuality.

 

The Wolves' FW entry does tell us that they undertook a lot of suppression actions.

 

The safest way to preserve ideology is to never show its weakness or its competition. The Space Wolves seemed to me as the ones who dealt with threats that fit within the Imperial Truth. The Dark Angels were for threats whose sheer existence, or who required fighting methods explicitly against the Imperial Truth. If the Imperial Truth is everything it was said to be, then no foe would require banned weapons to defeat, etc.

 

I just finished reading this book, and I feel that my decision to purchase the special edition hardback rather than waiting for the eBook was fully justifed!
 
I'm finding it difficult to explain, but to me, this book felt like the first time we have seen the "real" pre-heresy Dark Angels. We see the Hexagrammaton structure in full technicolour; we understand more about the strong Terran legacy of the First legion and how it impacts their organisation; and we also see the Lion as the first son of the Emperor, instead of the Grand Knight of Caliban. The foundation is laid for the different circles of secrecy that we come to associate so much with 40k Dark Angels.
 
In a way, it was a frustrating book to read, because you feel that had they fleshed out all these details about the history of the first legion earlier, then the previous Dark Angels books would have been so much better. The Knightly orders of Caliban are what the Lion grew up with; the Hexagrammaton structure is something he inherited from the terrans - you feel that the tensions caused by integrating these structures would have been a far more interesting read than what we were given.
 
For example, Luther, Cypher, Zahariel, Nemiel and Corswain were all key figures from Caliban. How would they interact with the existing 6 Masters of the wings?
 
Also, I wonder how many other

weapons there might be in the secret Dreadwing weapon cache on the Invincible Reason that perhaps might have been helpful when they first came under daemonic attack. Perhaps Nemiel might still have lost his head, but instead objecting to the use of forbidden weapons rather than psykers.

 
After that, I'm hungry for more about this version of the Dark Angels - perhaps book 9 may satiate this desire!

 

I have read them all and now view this as the first Horus Heresy Dark Angel book. I think there's very little of value in the previous books now that this exists.

 

There was a lot to like about this novel but I think overall I'm just tired of action scenes in general, and the Dark Angels schtick specifically. It was cool to see one of the aliens carve through the Librarian's mind for information and being frustrated because the Dark Angel's paranoid layers of secrecy meant that the Librarian literally did not have the information the alien was looking for. Additionally, when the alien jumps into the Primarch's mind there's a sweet "I'm not stuck in here with you, you're stuck in here with me" scene.

Having the Dark Angels be a force that's been roaming around the Crusade exterminating a variety of soul stealing, mind eating monstrosities is great but I really think the knightly theme is a burden and I ended up rolling my eyes everytime a character said anything relating to chivalry - it feels tacked on. And call me crazy but I don't seem to remember a particularly huge emphasis on the Dark Angels being knightly figures beyond an acknowledgement that orders of monster hunting knights were part of their homeworld's culture. If they'd kept the 'monster hunting' schtick and lost the knight aspect I'd welcome it.

 

I feel like the secrecy thing thing was brought together by the end scene. The Dark Angels are simultaneously proud that they are the ones entrusted to keep secrets too dangerous for the other legions, know they keep secrets from each other, recognize the value and harm of it, but don't know when they've personally been removed from the circle of trust. Personally, if this book were book one, then I'd expect future books to start exploring how the Lion is the point of failure because he's the only one who knows all the secrets. I also think this is why the Lion thinks he understands the Emperor best and most like him. They're both the fulcrum upon which the informational house of cards is balanced. They're keeping secrets from everyone below them and neither's organization will end up surviving their removal. That the Lion sees a secret-keeper (and not necessarily the physical details) were why I thought the Lion thinks he's the only one to see the true Emperor.

 

And yeah, it doesn't mesh well with knights as we understand them. However, if we think of Caliban as the Black Forest of mythology on crack then it makes more sense. What would the knights and protectors be like on a world where creatures regularly steal children, mimic other people, and try to tempt people into the woods? Do you know the way home?, the idea of labyrinths for defense, groups of insular wisdom for esoterica threats, start make more sense. This is where a true Primarch novella could have shined, but we didn't get a true Primarch novella. 

 

Because they're separate themes. They're Knights. They're also secretive and insular. They're not one because they're the other.

 

Their Primarch grew up as part of a knightly order, and the First Legion also, for many many years, was the defining answer to what a Space Marine was. They were the archetype that all other Legions emulated. Horus may have been the first Primarch, but for so long, it was the First Legion that all the others aspired to be like.

 

Sadly, this has always been the least focused-upon aspect of the Dark Angels, everything's always been about the Fallen, and the Inner Circle, and the secrets and lies, etc. For all the rarity of the Fallen, and how hard they are to find, you're hard-pressed in 40k to find a Dark Angels story that doesn't involve them in some way, other than Piscina. Now when we finally get stuff that focuses on these other aspects, it feels tacked on, because of the flanderization that has taken place.

 

What originally drew me to the Dark Angels was they were the inheritors of the knightly Order (Black Templars where not a thing). The Heresy's early novels thrived on subversion so I don't mind how the characters here connected honor and duty to secrecy and hard choices. I kept thinking that the true inheritors of the First Legion are not the Dark Angels, but the Grey Knights. They are knightly in aspect and culture, but they regularly obscure, suppress, and destroy in a way more fitting of a secret police force.

 

 

 

I would expand upon your idea/go a slightly different direction and go more Knights Templar with Caliban, if I were in charge.

That’s precisely what I had in mind when I started off with “Christian military orders.” I completely dropped the ball in terms of qualifying which one I was referring to. I like the Knights Templar as a frame of reference for the Dark Angels because their monastic/ascetic code, ferocious discipline on the battlefield, and refusal to surrender or retreat (as well as the legends surrounding their initiations into occultism and mysticism) stand in contrast with the more conventional, romanticized conception of chivalry. 

Which would tie nicely into the, ahem, dark side of the Legion. I hate it when people identify a clear-through line for a character or faction that eluded the person writing them.

 

 

Aaaaaand here's how I used an actual chivalric code as the basis for my take on the Dark Angels during the Great Crusade (it's fanfic, but I'm proud of it).

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349320-the-dark-angels-a-more-comprehensive-fan-version/

 

I started writing it after Angels of Caliban came out. You don't need to stray far to get some serious 40k vibes from knights. Remember: knights would brutally put down peasant revolts. I could totally imagine the Dark Angels arriving, offering a single chance for a world to offer obeisance to the true liege lord of Mankind, and wrecking everything if they refused.

Edited September 14, 2020 by jaxom

[Scribe]

That sounds really interesting.

[DarkRaven89]

Re-reading it only on chapter 4 but better than what i remember.

[Fedor]

I didn't get the impression there was much in this that would make anyone feel the need to invalidate all the previous Heresy Dark Angel stuff. A lot of which was very current plot driven rather than going deep into legion organisation stuff, though it definitely would have been a solid (if very dry and likely heavily criticised by the usual large contingent for not moving the plot forward at all) first DA Heresy book. They were already even using ideas from  the work in progress forgeworld structural stuff in the previus Guymer book and AoC.

 

Then again i'm not as invested the Dark Angels as their tabletop players will usually be. I never fully reread any of their books.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Fedor

[jaxom]

I didn't get the impression there was much in this that would make anyone feel the need to invalidate all the previous Heresy Dark Angel stuff. A lot of which was very current plot driven rather than going deep into legion organisation stuff, though it definitely would have been a solid (if very dry and likely heavily criticised by the usual large contingent for not moving the plot forward at all) first DA Heresy book. They were already even using ideas from  the work in progress forgeworld structural stuff in the previus Guymer book and AoC.

 

Then again i'm not as invested the Dark Angels as their tabletop players will usually be. I never fully reread any of their books.

 

Invalidate? I'm actually somewhat impressed by what authors (including Guymer) were able to salvage from Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels compared to some of the short stories which really make little sense. However, I feel the Primarch novella renders Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels purposeless. The Fall of Caliban will happen; I think that pushing that narrative so early divorced those novels from the Heresy as a whole. The few attempts to make Luther and Caliban matter fell flat in my eyes. Their sole grace was providing information about the Great Crusade era Dark Angels and opinions how that went are mixed. As you noted, Angels of Caliban was where the FW info started leaking in; but Lion El'Jonson provides a much more cohesive version.

[Bobss]

The Horus Heresy Dark Angels books are garbage. There's no if, but or maybe about it. Descent of Angels reads pretty well, but was disastrously placed after Fulgrim, and to this day still hasn't justified its existence. Fallen Angels is classic Mike Lee, and the Gav Thorpe stuff has smothered any interesting potential the FIRST LEGION once had in favour of a Fallen-wankfest-pet-project he's been prodding at since Angels of Darkness

 

I'm not a huge fan of Guymur's prose, but having read the spoilers and discussions this book has launched have been fantastic. It seems like a clear attempt to address the direction of the FIRST LEGION without the aforementioned Flanderization being sprayed all over the place. Give me grizzled, rad-scarred Unification Vets in their black, clunky armour plates who fought under the Emperor Himself and alongside His Golden Minions, who harbour devastating taboo weapons of mass destruction in their bunkers and ships, and who serve as the Emperor's unquestioning bulldozer who would go on to one day free Mars from its Toaster Overlords over the ''Yes, but how does this relate to the Dark Angels in M41?'' every five seconds. It's all so tiresome #firstlegionmatters

[Marshal Rohr]

Did you forget Savage Weapons and Prince of Crows exist?

[RedFurioso]

 

As you noted, Angels of Caliban was where the FW info started leaking in; but Lion El'Jonson provides a much more cohesive version.

I think it was Dan Abnett who invented much of modern HH-era DA lore in Unremembered Empire? Forbidden weapons, first ever mentions of Dreadwing and Stormwing, important characters like Holguin and Redloss, glory of the First Legion etc. It was the first book that properly covered Dark Angels in the Horus Heresy series. Don't know if Alan helped Dan with these ideas back in 2013, though. FW Heresy was like newborn child in that time.

[jaxom]

 

 

As you noted, Angels of Caliban was where the FW info started leaking in; but Lion El'Jonson provides a much more cohesive version.

I think it was Dan Abnett who invented much of modern HH-era DA lore in Unremembered Empire? Forbidden weapons, first ever mentions of Dreadwing and Stormwing, important characters like Holguin and Redloss, glory of the First Legion etc. It was the first book that properly covered Dark Angels in the Horus Heresy series. Don't know if Alan helped Dan with these ideas back in 2013, though. FW Heresy was like newborn child in that time.

 

 

The rumors I had read where the other direction: Alan Blighe had done a bunch of writing for the early Black Books so there was a bunch of material available on the legions involved in Istvaan and the beginning of the heresy (the prep time for those books was rather large; I think it started pretty much after art book for the Horus Heresy card game was released). The other legions had briefing documents, but nothing substantive. Blighe was working on the Dark Angels as Abnett was writing Unremembered Empire and had something more substantive done for Angels of Caliban. Now, this was a rumor; it's possible something else, a "real version of events" as it were, came up at a Weekender or in an interview. It may well be that this is all the fallout of too many cooks in the kitchen and each was working with a different recipe.

Edited September 15, 2020 by jaxom

[Marshal Rohr]

I’ll have to go back and check it out but I think Iron and Stormwing are 1st Ed Space Marine

[Roomsky]

Honestly, Descent and Fallen Angels read like a different continuity at this point. ADB’s stuff is too brief to make a difference, and Unremembered Empire is BL beginning to move toward what Forgeworld would eventually do with the legion. Now we have Valdor and Lord of the First leaning HARD on the “first and the best” legion angle, and Lord of the First especially emphasizes the layer upon layer of specific, complex ritual the legion is built upon.

 

The first two are about mildly sneaky space knights, Nemiel’s antics in Fallen Angels read more like an Ultramarines story than a Dark Angels one. Reading them now, I don’t buy they’re the same legion at all.

 

What a mess the I Legion is.

[jaxom]

I’ll have to go back and check it out but I think Iron and Stormwing are 1st Ed Space Marine

 

Ironwing, definitely, don't know about Stormwing.

[Sothalor]

I don't have my copy of Crusade yet, but I feel this has been a direction the Dark Angel HH era fluff has been heading down: divergent visions and focus.

 

On the one hand, the early HH stuff like Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels focuses on the Lion/Luther relationship and fallout, the internal fracturing of the First Legion and such.

 

On the other, the latter HH entries seem much more focused on the Lion's internal struggles with Imperium Secundus, the whole Tuchulcha nonsense, and increasing showcases of the Dark Angels' "pre"-Heresy role, organization, and equipment - all the different "Wings", the archeotech weapons, etc.

 

It's understandable that the early material is different; a lot of the later developments and background just hadn't been created yet at the time Descent and Fallen Angels were written. But it seems much of the more recent focus is deliberately... not "Dark Angels" in the sense of avoiding the whole Luther schism and throwing in other stuff. "Look! Rangdan Xenocides! Look! Bolters that erase their targets from time! Ooh, have you heard of these other Wing formations? Look at these super-knight terminators!"

 

It just feels... I dunno, almost like they're trying too hard? 

[Marshal Rohr]

I mean, good. The Dark Angels suffered the most from the impetus to tie every little thing about them to 40K. No we finally can see them on their own two feet without having to constantly be bombarded with references to modern 40K. It finally feels complete.

[Sothalor]

I agree with you there; not everything has to be a direct shot from 30K to 40K. However, it now almost feels like there's no connection to Luther and Caliban. Frankly, I think the way things played out in retrospect with Luther and the others getting exiled happened way too soon.

 

There's a lot of potential there: the Lion and Luther working together during campaigns, maybe each of them favoring or exerting influence on different Wing formations. Something to make Luther's betrayal more meaningful. As things stand right now, we've essentially got two different Legions. 

[b1soul]

Valdor gave me a sense they were the prototype first space marines, no surprise there. Didn't imply anything about them being the "best"

 

I think that's more the legion's view of itself in Lord of the First?

[Lord_Caerolion]

Because at that stage they were just the first of the Astartes. It was after that that for so long they were the only Legion, so they had to specialise in everything. They didn't have World Eaters/War Hounds to handle full-frontal assaults, they didn't have Iron Hands to handle mechanized warfare, they didn't have Iron Warriors/Imperial Fists to handle sieges, or White Scars to handle hit-and-run lightning warfare. It was the First who had to do it all.

[Master Ciaphas]

I for one really, really enjoyed Lord the First. Finally, IMHO, there has been a worthy description of the Lion - and with well-written prose. For me, it serves to even further highlight what a poor fit Gav Thorpe is for the First Legion...and perhaps as a Space Marine writer in general (because I actually enjoyed his Eldar Path trilogy). 

 

Today I have also received my copy of Book IX - Crusade, that I am just itching to sink my teeth into!

[Indefragable]

For those unaware, in each Legion description section of the FW Black Books, one of the bullet points for each Legion is "Observed Strategic Tendencies." These are attributes and traits that each Legion exhibits throughout the course of the Great Crusade, and as categorized by in-setting Imperial observers. It's a brilliant touch and fun way to trace the evolution of Legions. 

 

Examples:

Hidden Content

 

Emperor's Children: 

Combined Arms Warfare, the use of complex maneuver and discursive tactical planning, Asymmetrical Assault

 

Iron Warriors:

Siege Warfare, Co-ordinated Mass-theatre Warfare, Armoured Assault, Planetary decimation, Attrition, Retribution and counter-insurgency campaigns

 

Blood Angels:

Orbital Drop operations, Shock Assault campaigns and macro-scale decapitation strikes. Prior to Sanguinius' return, the IX Legion was instead more widely known for its use as a tool of attrition-based warfare in war zones otherwise considered too hazardous for normal operations

 

I specifically include the BA since their pre/post Primarch return tendencies are starkly different and highlights the intrigue of the Great Crusade era.

 

 

...in Book 9: Crusade, it mentions the following for the Dark Angels' Observed Strategic Tendencies:

Hidden Content

Dark Angels:

Observed Strategic Tendencies: None; within the Legion there was at least one Host or Order dedicated to each discipline of war.

 

 

So it doubles down on the idea that they are the template, the ones that were truly the jack of all trades and had to do a bit of everything. This attitude ("we can handle anything") most especially within military cultures can so often cultivate a reputation (fair or not) of being the "best". So it all ties together, though results certainly vary. 

 

So I would say it's fair and in-character for the Dark Angels in the GC to be the in-setting "The Best" even if they are not actually best.

 

********

 

Do we know when this book comes out for mainstream?

[jaxom]

Because at that stage they were just the first of the Astartes. It was after that that for so long they were the only Legion, so they had to specialise in everything. They didn't have World Eaters/War Hounds to handle full-frontal assaults, they didn't have Iron Hands to handle mechanized warfare, they didn't have Iron Warriors/Imperial Fists to handle sieges, or White Scars to handle hit-and-run lightning warfare. It was the First who had to do it all.

 

The time line for the end of Unity fascinates me. The 7th legion are deployed on Terra and the 16th legion are ready to go for the invasion of Luna. How long was the First Legion the only legion? I actually used (in my fanfic) the 16th spearheading such an important task as the Luna invasion as an example of how even as early as that, the Emperor was using the First Legion for tasks he didn't want anyone to know about (the First were going after the real secret stuff while the 16th were given the flashy stuff to do). 

 

I for one really, really enjoyed Lord the First. Finally, IMHO, there has been a worthy description of the Lion - and with well-written prose. For me, it serves to even further highlight what a poor fit Gav Thorpe is for the First Legion...and perhaps as a Space Marine writer in general (because I actually enjoyed his Eldar Path trilogy). 

 

Today I have also received my copy of Book IX - Crusade, that I am just itching to sink my teeth into!

 

I'd love to read your spoiler-free opinion!

 

For those unaware, in each Legion description section of the FW Black Books, one of the bullet points for each Legion is "Observed Strategic Tendencies." These are attributes and traits that each Legion exhibits throughout the course of the Great Crusade, and as categorized by in-setting Imperial observers. It's a brilliant touch and fun way to trace the evolution of Legions. 

 

Examples:

Hidden Content

 

Emperor's Children: 

Combined Arms Warfare, the use of complex maneuver and discursive tactical planning, Asymmetrical Assault

 

Iron Warriors:

Siege Warfare, Co-ordinated Mass-theatre Warfare, Armoured Assault, Planetary decimation, Attrition, Retribution and counter-insurgency campaigns

 

Blood Angels:

Orbital Drop operations, Shock Assault campaigns and macro-scale decapitation strikes. Prior to Sanguinius' return, the IX Legion was instead more widely known for its use as a tool of attrition-based warfare in war zones otherwise considered too hazardous for normal operations

 

I specifically include the BA since their pre/post Primarch return tendencies are starkly different and highlights the intrigue of the Great Crusade era.

 

 

...in Book 9: Crusade, it mentions the following for the Dark Angels' Observed Strategic Tendencies:

Hidden Content

Dark Angels:

Observed Strategic Tendencies: None; within the Legion there was at least one Host or Order dedicated to each discipline of war.

 

 

So it doubles down on the idea that they are the template, the ones that were truly the jack of all trades and had to do a bit of everything. This attitude ("we can handle anything") most especially within military cultures can so often cultivate a reputation (fair or not) of being the "best". So it all ties together, though results certainly vary. 

 

So I would say it's fair and in-character for the Dark Angels in the GC to be the in-setting "The Best" even if they are not actually best.

 

********

 

Do we know when this book comes out for mainstream?

 

I'd really like to see more to support that; it seems the answer to everything so far as been the Dreadwing.

 

I think October is the general release date?

[Indefragable]

 

<snip>

 

I'd really like to see more to support that; it seems the answer to everything so far as been the Dreadwing.

 

I think October is the general release date?

 

 

So i have not read much of Crusade yet, but here's an expansion on what I mean:

Hidden Content

The Dark Angels are The Best in a World's Best Cup of Coffee sort of way. That is their reputation, that is their identity, etc... Someone else in this thread said that while the World Eaters' shtick is to be the berserk ones, and the Thousand Sons' shtick is to be the mind-bullet ones, the Dark Angels' shtick is to be the arrogant ones. They are are "weaponized arrogance" as the frater on here put it. A level of self-confidence and self-assuredness above and beyond that of even hyper-elite military forces. It allows them to do the dirty deeds (done dirt cheap) in the dark that no one will ever know about. It gives them the ability to psychologically (mostly) handle absolutely anything they are faced with....

 

...it's excellent propaganda. 

 

Hence why the Nemean Reaver, Astelan, and others go rogue even before going rogue was brought into style by a certain Cthonian. Because once someone has lived through what the DA have (Rangda, countless others) and seen the limits of "The Best" warriors (which, in fact, are not that different from everyone else's limits), then the disillusionment is that much more complete. When the pillar you stand on is said to be the most secure, most stable, most uncrackable pillar in existence....you freak out all the more when you start seeing cracks...and are you able to see through the marketing of "most secure, most stable, etc..." or do you go bonkers because if "The Best" can falter like this, then what hope is there for the rest of the Imperium?  

 

Now, from a certain perspective the I Legion is perhaps the potent force out there. They remain mostly intact throughout the HH and in fact have pretty much the only pure win in a 1:1 Legion vs Legion standup fight at Thramas. So there is some truth to the reputation, perhaps....

 

...but perhaps the real secret is at what cost. What are they willing to give up? To sacrifice? Is the Lion not truly like his dad in that sense that victory is the only thing that matters?

 

I am filling in the gaps myself with some of the above, but that's what I am getting from things so far. And it sounds like Lion El'Jonson fits that pattern as well. Where this is going is to set up the Fall of Caliban perfectly in the sense that on one hand, you have the one Legion that kinda sorta gets by intact only for them to go home and face the second most disastrous rebellion immediately after the first (HH). It makes that fall all the harder and sets up the super-secret nature of the 40k Dark Angels since their arrogance allows only one possible course of action to such an event: cover-up. 

 

Making the DA "The Best"l feels "fresh" because it's arguably what should have happened all along for a backstory and ties in perfectly with the 10,000 year later secretive nature: if you are The Best, then why did you fail? "Because we did not fail, as far as you know." 

 

Pride cometh before the fall...

 

 

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

Because at that stage they were just the first of the Astartes. It was after that that for so long they were the only Legion, so they had to specialise in everything. They didn't have World Eaters/War Hounds to handle full-frontal assaults, they didn't have Iron Hands to handle mechanized warfare, they didn't have Iron Warriors/Imperial Fists to handle sieges, or White Scars to handle hit-and-run lightning warfare. It was the First who had to do it all.

 

The time line for the end of Unity fascinates me. The 7th legion are deployed on Terra and the 16th legion are ready to go for the invasion of Luna. How long was the First Legion the only legion? I actually used (in my fanfic) the 16th spearheading such an important task as the Luna invasion as an example of how even as early as that, the Emperor was using the First Legion for tasks he didn't want anyone to know about (the First were going after the real secret stuff while the 16th were given the flashy stuff to do). 

 

 

The way I see it, and expanding more on what I'd said before, is that the Dark Angels were the first Legion. The other Legiones Astartes may have been created around the same time, but it appears not to the same scale of the First. 

 

This then continues into showing that the Dark Angels may have been jack-of-all-trades, but they are compartmentalized. Yes, they have elements within their Legion that are experts of hit-and-run warfare like the White Scars, but it's just portions of them, not the whole. The Ironwing can match the Iron Hands in their mastery of mechanized warfare, but those Dark Angels who were part of the Firewing? Nowhere near comparable. 

[b1soul]

Jack of all trades and semi-master of all seems to be the theme

 

I think the hyper-confidence schtick is similar to that of the SW...which legion isn't hyper-confident though (I guess it's like the difference between 97 and 100)?

 

The SW as the sanction for those who might be salvaged/rehabilitated and the DA as the final solution for those who are to be oobliterated utterly...doesn't seem to jive with the SW's self-belief in PB, but I note that the SW were indeed sent to arrest, not destroy, the TSons.