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The Primarchs: Lion El'Jonson

Kelborn

By Kelborn
in + THE BLACK LIBRARY +

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StrangerOrders Battle-Brother

StrangerOrders

Posted
Posted

Funny that you would be so happy with the book, StrangerOrders. I disliked it - quite a bit, actually. There's a bunch of stuff in there, that didn't sit right with me: 

  • Astartes are genetically bound to follow Primarch orders (well, that would have made Isstvan unnecessary, wouldn't it)
  • enslaved Men of Iron, along with the ongoing hubris of Johnson, that only the First would be allowed this
  • the idea, that the First is the real executioner, the final sanction, and that the Wolves are just for show
  • the entire organisation, where noone really knows anything about anyone and your command chain is a complete mess - most military units would really struggle with this
  • Did I mention the insane hubris of the Lion? He is certain, that only he is able to see the Emperor for what he really is, all others are just deluded
  • Terminators attacking a warhound head-on, because Cataphractii plate is the only infantry armour capable of withstanding its firepower (they are literally just running right at it)
  • Astartes running from cover to cover and stopping midway out in the open, because they need to reload their weapons
  • The battle on the enemy's ship at the end where the author seems to forget about some of the units being there or actually being already destroyed and such...
  • The First truly believe to be the first among equals - they truly believe that they are as good as Iron Warriors and Fists, when it comes to siegecraft, as good at stealth as the Raven Guard and so on and so forth - they just don't feel the need to brag about it all the time...yeah, sure.

 

I really struggled with the book - and ended up with a huge dislike for the First. Their pompous behaviour, along with the ridiculous secrecy, was just annoying me. I mean, if the intention was to show a legion so full of itself than sure, the book succeeded. To be honest, that might have been the point - but the arrogance and at the same time ineptitude to get their crap together and tell each other what's going on, was driving me insane.

 

 

 

  • Terminators attacking a warhound head-on

Can you tell more about the warhound? Why terminators attack it? Which Titan Legio is it?

 

There are two instances.... neither of which had much choice in the matter.

 

The Warhound was to buy time for the Lion (and it failed horrendously and the Lion had to tell the terminators to back off).

 

The Second instance was again buying time against a Xenos titan.

 

In niether case was it portrayed as an optimal measure, they were backed into a corner and had little choice.

 

The Khrave's whole gimmick is possessing people and eating them from the inside out. They possessed the moderatii.

 

Their true form is horrific btw, like a cross between roswel greys and slendermen.

 

I do generally disagree with the quality of the book. I think its great BECAUSE the First has always been incredibly narcissistic but this book actually had it as a strength. The Legion was caught on the backfoot a few times but it was always ready to bounce back and it predicted the enemy at alot of turns.

 

The Khrave would also have murderized most of the Legions given that it attacks resentment. The blind arrogance of the DAngels literally immunized them to it.

 

Their secrecy also helped them a few times because the Khrave kept trying to ferret out information by ripping open the minds of serfs and got nothing, Even when they managed to get ahold of a librarian, they got nothing because no one knew anything useful except the Lion.

 

Which was exactly what screwed them, they tried to ambush a leech the Lion only for him to hijack the process and learn everything about them before literally mindbreaking the Xenos to death.

Fedor Battle-Brother

Fedor

Posted
Posted (edited)

Sounds like a relatively similar approach to his Iron Hands book that could well end up as divisive.

 

The synopsis for it seemed to hint at there being some mysterious reason for the Lion going after this remote world, was there anything to that?

Edited by Fedor
StrangerOrders Battle-Brother

StrangerOrders

Posted
Posted

You mentioned Indra-Sul? Any mention of the Raven Guard or a cameo appearance? I thought the RG had liberated Indra-Sul or is this from before that?

The DAngels were with the fleet that trailed the RG there, they had to accompany the iterators that demanded all survivors be made servitors.

 

The DAngels were offended in being party to the slight and created an Order to deal with them in order to make amends for the slight to the Raven Guard (well sorta, they say that they were offended to be party to the action with regards to the RG and made the order shortly thereafter. Couldnt say if there is an exact relation tbh).

Kenzaburo Veteran

Kenzaburo

Posted
Posted

Well, that's the problem right here:

 

You feel like the DAs profited from their secrecy against the Khrave. I feel like the author just provided the one single enemy their secrecy would prove a strength against.

 

From a storycrafter's perspective it all felt forced and I'm quite sure more legions would have found a way to tackle the Khrave. It felt pretty lazy - as with that terminator-warhound scene. You describe it as them being backed into a corner. That's not what happened. The Lion and the terminators charge onto the top of a fortress where they find a landing pad with severall bunkers and whatnot around. There's debris, there's buttresses, there's generators and whatnot. Only in the middle there's the landing pad. The warhound is stomping around there. A few DAs try to hold out there but are getting decimated by the titan's guns. 

 

And while the lion stands there and watches the scene, his bodyguard decides the best avenue of attack to approach the warhound head-on. They don't look for cover, they just stride right at it...until the Lion does some posing and then other things save the day. But seriously - we have seen chaos-infused Lorgar take on a warhound and suffer for it. Why the Lion even thinks he can take on the warhound with a SWORD is ridiculous. Why 5 cataphractii terminators think, this is their best way of handling the situation is ridiculous. It's just pompous posing and no real thought behind a lot of the actions. There's no depth to large parts of the story. If you were to see this in a movie, it would be a lot like Matrix 3, the Transformers movies or the Expendables. Big action pieces with no real reason to it.

 

Also: 5 bolter-armed terminators shouldn't even remotely be a distraction for a warhound titan. 

 

 

To each their own, I guess. It's good that you liked it. But I didn't like either the prose nor the story itself. On the matter of prose: the author goes out of his way to show he knows basically the weirdest termini technici for architecture, armour and whatnot. Doesn't enhance the story a bit, though, just makes it harder to read. That's writing 101 - you can use "tree" and people will have a mental image of it. You can say "oak", and the mental image becomes clearer, more defined. If you now go "the quercus of the cyclobalanopsis-kind swayed in the wind" (please don't fact-check this, I have no idea myself, really^^), I just end up with no clue whatsoever, what you are talking about. 

 

Anyways, I'm getting too worked up about this :D - I just didn't like plot or prose, that's basically the bottom line. It's totally fine if you and others disagree, of course and liked it a lot. 

StrangerOrders Battle-Brother

StrangerOrders

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hmm... Thats not at all how I recall the scene given that their entire objective was to get onto the ship.

 

And... I am not sure how you can read the book and think other Legions would have stood a chance against that particular enemy. In fact I would say that anything short of the RG, AL or Custodes would get torn to bits. Especially the likes of the more bitter Legions. 

 

Their secrecy was also immensely profitable in the sense that alot of their weapons were illegal at best.

 

The Emp also explicitly drew the parallel between their use and the rather infamous example of Thutmose III (granted, I have a thing for Ancient Egypt so that might not have struck as much of a cord for others). The Dark Angels exist to hide things from existence which are too dangerous to be known as well as to preserve things that are dangerous to let others know about. 

 

I also rather liked the prose, but I will be real here and say that I am no expert and get lost whenever folks go on about them. I liked the book and thought it was a rather easy read.

 

Granted, if folks just want fan service I do not think they will care for the book. Although I would argue that half the point of the Primarch series is to show how awesome and horrid Primarchs can be to varying success. 

 

I was ambivalent on Ferrus Manus (although if you don't think the human offshoots, Akurduana and Ducaine or how Medusa was described to be interesting, we might be just very different in tastes). I think its critique is more due to the fact that he just got the least screen time during the Heresy and never got to be praised as much as other Primarchs outside of the Black Books (which, lets be real, most folks dont read).

 

I will say that my recommendation to folks is to try it out for themselves to see how they fall on it. Primarch books are cheap by BL standards once the full release is out and audible is extremely generous in their return deals.

Edited by StrangerOrders
Knockagh Veteran

Knockagh

Posted
Posted
I think the DA offer huge potential for story telling. This years upcoming book on Astor Sabbathiel and her inquisitorial messing will probably be focused on the DA and their dirty little secrets. I’m hoping that this book has some little nugget in it that will link through to it.
Knockagh Veteran

Knockagh

Posted
Posted

Just arrived today which is extremely speedy for BL, they must of preprinted a box with my name on it!

 

Noticed that the lion hasn’t got the white eye treatment that the others got. Also the first time I’ve seen the cultist models used on art.

Robbienw Veteran

Robbienw

Posted
Posted

 

 

Can you give us details of units and weapons in the book that are yet to show up in model format? :smile.:

Men of Iron.

 

Psychic Weapons of a wide spectrum.

 

Ironwing stuff.

 

Companions but in Tartaros.

Thanks. Hope we get to see some more releases with this stuff :D

Moonreaper666 Battle-Brother

Moonreaper666

Posted
Posted (edited)

Funny that you would be so happy with the book, StrangerOrders. I disliked it - quite a bit, actually. There's a bunch of stuff in there, that didn't sit right with me:

  • Astartes are genetically bound to follow Primarch orders (well, that would have made Isstvan unnecessary, wouldn't it)
  • enslaved Men of Iron, along with the ongoing hubris of Johnson, that only the First would be allowed this
  • the idea, that the First is the real executioner, the final sanction, and that the Wolves are just for show
  • the entire organisation, where noone really knows anything about anyone and your command chain is a complete mess - most military units would really struggle with this
  • Did I mention the insane hubris of the Lion? He is certain, that only he is able to see the Emperor for what he really is, all others are just deluded
  • Terminators attacking a warhound head-on, because Cataphractii plate is the only infantry armour capable of withstanding its firepower (they are literally just running right at it)
  • Astartes running from cover to cover and stopping midway out in the open, because they need to reload their weapons
  • The battle on the enemy's ship at the end where the author seems to forget about some of the units being there or actually being already destroyed and such...
  • The First truly believe to be the first among equals - they truly believe that they are as good as Iron Warriors and Fists, when it comes to siegecraft, as good at stealth as the Raven Guard and so on and so forth - they just don't feel the need to brag about it all the time...yeah, sure.

 

I really struggled with the book - and ended up with a huge dislike for the First. Their pompous behaviour, along with the ridiculous secrecy, was just annoying me. I mean, if the intention was to show a legion so full of itself than sure, the book succeeded. To be honest, that might have been the point - but the arrogance and at the same time ineptitude to get their crap together and tell each other what's going on, was driving me insane.

Yes, Astartes tend to follow their Primarch but there are exceptions to that. This geneseed quirk is more noticable with the Word Bearers. Even then Narek and others have defected to the Loyalist side

 

Good thing you are not a Guardsmen then. The Dark Angels this one time slaughtered an Armored Regiment of Armageddon because of Fallen rumors

 

Astartes act more like animals like wolves. Not surprising considering what geneseed is made off, ie animal DNA and Warp/Chaos God magic

 

Terminator Armor can withstand one Atomic Bomb or one stomp of a Warhound. Though the guy is out of the fight if that happens

Edited by Moonreaper666
DarkChaplain Veteran

DarkChaplain

Posted
Posted

It's really shifted my perspective, knowing that he hasn't actually read the books, but instead bases all of this on 40k wiki or lexicanum's condensed and often grossly outdated or misleading summaries.

Fire Golem Venerable Brother

Fire Golem

Posted
Posted

It's really shifted my perspective, knowing that he hasn't actually read the books, but instead bases all of this on 40k wiki or lexicanum's condensed and often grossly outdated or misleading summaries.

It certainly explains a lot. 

RedFurioso Battle-Brother

RedFurioso

Posted
Posted

Geneseed is not made of animal dna and warp magic. It’s made to mimic the effects of animal traits but it’s still human.

But geneseed is literally made of animal DNA

 

"In subject six there is a whole suite of genetic encoding derived from a non-human source, possibly canine" - Deliverance Lost

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