How will the Psychic Awakening affect the Grey Knights?

[RedemptionNL]

WC7 is 58% btw...

[techsoldaten]

 

Yes WC7 may be 48%. But we don't need a WC7, we need a WC6 and use our inherent +1 to make it a 7. By my maths, getting at least a 6 on 2d6 is 72.2% or so. Over 6 turns, that works out to 4.2 CP on average. Of course it's not guaranteed, that's why it's called an average.

 

You can't just play off your opinion as fact though? And if they don't start in Tide of Shadows? Start in Escalation, then yes every smite successfully cast is doing 100% more damage.

 

I'd disagree with you having an open mind personally as you're using anecdotal evidence to push your narrative.

 

Not sure why you want to make this personal. Telling me how you would characterize my state of mind doesn't make anything better, it just makes you sound silly.

 

This is not some quantum leap forward for Grey Knights. What we have seen so far is marginal improvements. I'm waiting to see the rest before I decide if it's worth it.

 

But, seriously, going from 1 MW to 2 MW on smite in certain situations doesn't improve the army that much. They still cast on the closest unit and are subject to Deny the Witch. Doesn't matter how you measure the output, your odds are situational and exaggerate the potential against anything with robust denial.

 

If this is the best that's coming, I'm not impressed. It's a nice to have, show me abilities that are have to haves - like bonuses / rerolls to charge, improved psychic offense, Relics that provide significant buffs, Stratagems that don't cost and arm and a leg, etc. Anything that will make GK more competitive.

[Biscuittzz]

 

 

Yes WC7 may be 48%. But we don't need a WC7, we need a WC6 and use our inherent +1 to make it a 7. By my maths, getting at least a 6 on 2d6 is 72.2% or so. Over 6 turns, that works out to 4.2 CP on average. Of course it's not guaranteed, that's why it's called an average.

 

You can't just play off your opinion as fact though? And if they don't start in Tide of Shadows? Start in Escalation, then yes every smite successfully cast is doing 100% more damage.

 

I'd disagree with you having an open mind personally as you're using anecdotal evidence to push your narrative.

 

Not sure why you want to make this personal. Telling me how you would characterize my state of mind doesn't make anything better, it just makes you sound silly.

 

This is not some quantum leap forward for Grey Knights. What we have seen so far is marginal improvements. I'm waiting to see the rest before I decide if it's worth it.

 

But, seriously, going from 1 MW to 2 MW on smite in certain situations doesn't improve the army that much. They still cast on the closest unit and are subject to Deny the Witch. Doesn't matter how you measure the output, your odds are situational and exaggerate the potential against anything with robust denial.

 

If this is the best that's coming, I'm not impressed. It's a nice to have, show me abilities that are have to haves - like bonuses / rerolls to charge, improved psychic offense, Relics that provide significant buffs, Stratagems that don't cost and arm and a leg, etc. Anything that will make GK more competitive.

 

 

I'm not trying to be personal. I just can't see any discussion on this developing if your opinion is clouding you from hard fact. You've already misconstrued the chances in the psychic phase to push a narrative that the new stuff is sub-par.

 

Nobody is saying that this is a quantum leap forward? I said myself that this will take us from practically unplayable to playable now. Hardly groundbreaking.

 

I think you're coming at this from too hard of a competitive viewpoint. The last part looks to me you're annoyed that your wish-listing hasn't been satisfied.

 

If you don't think even these initial changes will make us playable (read: not tournament standard playable) again, there's no point in discussing further.

[Corvus Fortis]

We still want an inqusitior in our army. If you feel, that our psychic power is not enough, mental interrogation or esotheric lore is a decent backup.

[Biscuittzz]

Hadn't really looked at Inquisitors until just now and at the powers/strategems. Very interesting ways to CP farm actually it seems. Are they expensive to field?

 

I'm guessing they won't mess with the mono-faction bonus too?

[TheMostGood]

I was trying to find this elsewhere (and in the FAQ for Assn.) but had trouble. 

Does having an Assn. or Inquisition break your mono-faction bonus? 

[L30n1d4s]

I think the new Strat that allows DSing within 3" (but no charging the same turn) will be great with a Paladin Ancient and the Banner of Refining Flame... drop in 3" away, then unleash an automatic full D6 Smite... if you position right/are lucky, you can make it so a character is the nearest unit and then hit it with D6 MWs.

[Waking Dreamer]

I was trying to find this elsewhere (and in the FAQ for Assn.) but had trouble. 

 

Does having an Assn. or Inquisition break your mono-faction bonus? 

 

If it's just 1 Inquisitor model in the whole army, then we keep our mono-faction bonus.

[Icosiel]

I am so excited for all of this! Grey Knights are so cool!

[TheMostGood]

 

 

I was trying to find this elsewhere (and in the FAQ for Assn.) but had trouble.

 

Does having an Assn. or Inquisition break your mono-faction bonus?

If it's just 1 Inquisitor model in the whole army, then we keep our mono-faction bonus.

Like if I use the assn operative stratagem?

[angrom]

I wonder how the master of the warp yactics will work with multiple GK detachments. Depending on the wording. Do you think it will be possible to have a dedicated detachment good at smitting and another one benefiting from cover tactic at the same time?

[Waking Dreamer]

Okay, I can still feel the endorphin high from this GK rules sneak peak, but I went and ordered myself a 10-man Strike Squad kit!

 

Now I've got lined up a 10-man Purgation Squad unit. It'll probably consist of 4 psilencers and 4 psycannons. I've been thinking of getting them mainly for collection purposes for a while now 50/50, but with these new rules it's a done deal. Now I'll have every specific GK unit from our Codex collected.

 

GW you got me!

[techsoldaten]

 

 

 

Yes WC7 may be 48%. But we don't need a WC7, we need a WC6 and use our inherent +1 to make it a 7. By my maths, getting at least a 6 on 2d6 is 72.2% or so. Over 6 turns, that works out to 4.2 CP on average. Of course it's not guaranteed, that's why it's called an average.

 

You can't just play off your opinion as fact though? And if they don't start in Tide of Shadows? Start in Escalation, then yes every smite successfully cast is doing 100% more damage.

 

I'd disagree with you having an open mind personally as you're using anecdotal evidence to push your narrative.

 

Not sure why you want to make this personal. Telling me how you would characterize my state of mind doesn't make anything better, it just makes you sound silly.

 

This is not some quantum leap forward for Grey Knights. What we have seen so far is marginal improvements. I'm waiting to see the rest before I decide if it's worth it.

 

But, seriously, going from 1 MW to 2 MW on smite in certain situations doesn't improve the army that much. They still cast on the closest unit and are subject to Deny the Witch. Doesn't matter how you measure the output, your odds are situational and exaggerate the potential against anything with robust denial.

 

If this is the best that's coming, I'm not impressed. It's a nice to have, show me abilities that are have to haves - like bonuses / rerolls to charge, improved psychic offense, Relics that provide significant buffs, Stratagems that don't cost and arm and a leg, etc. Anything that will make GK more competitive.

 

 

I'm not trying to be personal. I just can't see any discussion on this developing if your opinion is clouding you from hard fact. You've already misconstrued the chances in the psychic phase to push a narrative that the new stuff is sub-par.

 

Nobody is saying that this is a quantum leap forward? I said myself that this will take us from practically unplayable to playable now. Hardly groundbreaking.

 

I think you're coming at this from too hard of a competitive viewpoint. The last part looks to me you're annoyed that your wish-listing hasn't been satisfied.

 

If you don't think even these initial changes will make us playable (read: not tournament standard playable) again, there's no point in discussing further.

 

When you said, "I'd disagree with you having an open mind personally as you're using anecdotal evidence to push your narrative..." that's getting pretty personal. I mean, you can't get more personal than explaining someone's mind to them.

 

Either way, it's been unpleasant dealing with you. Let's not have a conversation, I wasn't asking for one and I'm not sure I care to deal with the combination of ignorance and gaslighting on your part. The hardest part of this exchange has been wondering if you're serious or not, I'm just going to assume you're trying to use some big words without knowing what they mean and leave it there.

[TheMostGood]

Okay, I can still feel the endorphin high from this GK rules sneak peak, but I went and ordered myself a 10-man Strike Squad kit!

 

Now I've got lined up a 10-man Purgation Squad unit. It'll probably consist of 4 psilencers and 4 psycannons. I've been thinking of getting them mainly for collection purposes for a while now 50/50, but with these new rules it's a done deal. Now I'll have every specific GK unit from our Codex collected.

 

GW you got me!

HOLD FAST! 

 

Don't buy just yet!

[Gaz1858]

I wonder how the master of the warp yactics will work with multiple GK detachments. Depending on the wording. Do you think it will be possible to have a dedicated detachment good at smitting and another one benefiting from cover tactic at the same time?

The leak says "entire army" so i would imagine your entire army needs to be GK and it covers them all ala Canticles for Admech

[Waking Dreamer]

 

 

I was trying to find this elsewhere (and in the FAQ for Assn.) but had trouble.

 

Does having an Assn. or Inquisition break your mono-faction bonus?

If it's just 1 Inquisitor model in the whole army, then we keep our mono-faction bonus.

Like if I use the assn operative stratagem?

 

 

To my knowledge unless there is wording similar to the Inquisition rule, which states specifically it does not break mono-army bonuses (not really a GK army concern until now), I'd say it would cancel the bonus. But depending on the wording of the Masters of the Warp, GW may have taken Assassin allies into account as this update is after the Inquisitor one where they are allowing mono-bonuses to go ahead.  

 

When it comes the Tides I do like how there is an inherent purpose/ design with each of the bonuses:

1. Tide of Shadows - best used when enemy units is > 24" away. 

2. Tide of Convergence - best used when enemy units is within 24" (standard Psycannon/psilence range).

3. Tide of Escalation - best used when enemy units is within 12" (standard GK smite range).

4. Tide of Fury - Already in combat with  enemy units.   

 

So it IS our psychic version of SM Combat Doctrines, but because it's derived from the Warp (ever in flux and changing), it isn't as predetermined / strict as the Turn 1-3 Combat Doctrines. 

 

So far, I'm really liking it. Though Tide of Shadows is near useless against armies who have plenty of Ignore Cover saves shooting units (eg Imperial Fists).

[Captain Coolpants]

Tide of shadows. Units not within cover gains cover, but when you are in cover, or more importantly, exact wording "on or within a terrain feature" you're -1 to hit. So this means even if you're getting your cover save denied by an army like imperial fists, you're still -1 to hit.

 

I know my first thought was that tide of escalation is going to be the go-to power as it effectively doubles our smite output. But I think the extra survivability will overall be more competitive/get your points worth from each unit.

[Slasher956]

 

 

I was trying to find this elsewhere (and in the FAQ for Assn.) but had trouble.

 

Does having an Assn. or Inquisition break your mono-faction bonus?

If it's just 1 Inquisitor model in the whole army, then we keep our mono-faction bonus.

Like if I use the assn operative stratagem?

 

Think its in the SM dex FAQ... but its confirmed that the Assains Operative strat cancels mon-facton bonus

 

 

yep pg 2 of the SM dex FAQ

 

 

Q: Does adding an Officio Assassinorum model to my army with the ‘Operative Requisition Sanctioned’ Stratagem prevent the rest of my army from using Combat Doctrines? A: Yes. Note that this model remains part of your army if it is destroyed.

 

should really be in the Assassin FAQ... but hay ho

Edited January 14, 2020 by Slasher956

[Corvus Fortis]

Does having an Assn. or Inquisition break your mono-faction bonus?

 

 

Assassins always break MF-bonus, even if taken through stratagem. Inquisitorial detachments break MF bonus. If you take single inquisitor as a part of your detachment, they doesn't break any bonuses and you can use all his abilities. But you can take only one.

 

Now I've got lined up a 10-man Purgation Squad unit. It'll probably consist of 4 psilencers and 4 psycannons. I've been thinking of getting them mainly for collection purposes for a while now 50/50, but with these new rules it's a done deal. Now I'll have every specific GK unit from our Codex collected.

 

Aren't Purgators allowed to take only 4 weapons regardless of model count? You still can two squads with four though.

[Biscuittzz]

Yea max is 4 per 10 i think. The other five are just extra bodies.

[casb1965]

4 psilencers and 6 storm bolters at  <12" is still nasty.  If you're in Tide of convergence that's 24 Str 5 1d3+1 damage and 24 Str 4 1 damage shots to bring a world of hurt to most units.

[casb1965]

Just noticed that nemesis DreadKnights will get no benefit from Tide of Fury or Tide of Convergence.

[Corvus Fortis]

Not a big deal, tbh. Just spam Psycannons if you want to get most from this tide. The H.Psycannon will have only 50% more gamage and 33% more shots but cost 3.5x times more.

[TheMostGood]

I appreciate everyone helping to clear that up.

 

That really sucks that assn. break you bonus. I have all four and love their design. But I guess I can’t use them now :(

[Waking Dreamer]

So, just to get things straight GK will have a total of 12 psychic powers to select from now, is that the same amount as BA/DA (and presumably the other non-Codex SM chapters)? If so, I think that's alright, considering we inherently get +1 (+2 with stratagem) to every Psychic test, Smite spam and every infantry, dreadnought and dreadknight unit can have a crack at casting and dtw in each psychic phase.

 

Also, I've got 1 spare GK terminator model available to build, and originally I was going to make another Apothecary with it (already have 2), but with 2MW Smites available now, and the probability(?) of another 5 Litanies in addition to Litany of Hate, and Recitation of Projection; I'm thinking either a second Brother Captain to spread 24" smite all around the army, or a second Chaplain could also be useful. 

 

This of course will be part of say around a 4K point mono-GK army collection (sorry shelved FW Xiphon flyer ), and I was wondering what people here would prefer to round off such a GK force:

 

1. 3 Apothecaries, 1 Brother-Captain, 1 Chaplain

2. 2 Apothecaries, 2 Brother-Captain, 1 Chaplain

3. 2 Apothecaries, 1 Brother-Captain, 2 Chaplain

 

^ Thematically, competitively or aesthetically what combination of those three unit types would people here prefer ?