New Mephiston/Psychic awakening p3

[keeblerartillery]

I’m kind of shocked by the pessimism. We didn’t get WORSE - we only got better. If we get a stratagem to advance doctrines, which I imagine we will, we start in the tactical doctrine - sicarans, inceptors, intercessors - all of our “usual” shooty units really benefit. Our T1 melee harassers will continue to do what they’ve always done - wreck face. Now, our beta strikers - sang guard, van vets - DEATH COMPANY IMTERCESSORS - can really blend some heretics. I for one am stoked. My Libby dread - who has failed his last two games to manifest a single power Edited November 25, 2019 by keeblerartillery

[SnorriSnorrison]

The litanies look weird - when do they activate? When the model makes the attack or if it is around the model when the litany was inspiring, so at the start of the turn?

 

Otherwise, what my post was missing - yay, free stuff!

And this is GW, so we shouldn’t take this for granted. Only a small payment of 32,50€ will net you the rules the other factions get in their main army or through an FAQ.

 

Did the grav bomb get interesting for us at last?

[Emissary]

One thing I noticed that I haven't seen mentioned yet is the announcement of an updated Sanguinary Priest data sheet. I'm not aware of any reason they would need to update it other than to make a jump pack codex official.

I actually thought we may get a primaris Sanguinary Priest just using the current primaris apothecary model and an upgrade sprue.

[MeltaRange]

There's a lot left to come, but honestly I'm not particularly impressed right now.  You know your super doctrine stinks when someone comments "well, at least it's not a big loss if you take allies" when trying to make a positive spin on it.

 

Maybe it's time for BA Terminators to shine?  The +1A is nice for things that already have multi-damage weapons, but give me the White Scars doctrine all day over this for most weapons.

[Silverson]

Trying to keep positive and to many unknowns for the red thirst to kick in just yet.

 

Primaris Death company will be dependant on cost/stratagem cost v veteran marines

 

Red thirst v fury within seems strange to make one a straight upgrade over the other, red thirst should get a small buff to separate them and not have one being a straight upgrade.

 

Savage echoes in a vacume seems good until you realise that the assault doctrine is available at the earliest on turn three. A buff that is only possible for the second half of a game is just terrible, actual close combat units have probably done their job and died by turn three or are a single unit waiting to come down from the skies and have already missed a third of the game.

 

Invocation of destruction is cool but the way our close combat units want to operate leaves chaplains in general in an awkward state, chanting at the start of a battle round means no deep striking unit gets the buff unless you invest heavily in "upon wings of fire" and doesn't work with forlorn fury because the death company unit should be 12+d6 inches away from the Chaplin or your sacrificing movement on a dice roll to get the buff.

 

Biomantic sarcophagus is a good relic with a a failing of the majority of good psychic powers are used to buff the caster, yea it cool to get a 5++ on death company more regularly but are you really giving up a precious relic slot for it?

 

Rapid fire is the best thing I got from the list, its good, not great but given how poor tactical marines are these days at least there is going to be a unit to put it on and during the tactical doctrine could do a decent job of clearing hordes.

 

As it stands I'm struggling to see how pure blood angels will be on the table long enough to see turn three let alone make use of the bonuses, but fear not as we only have part of a puzzle at the moment and hopefully all will fall into place when the book comes and we can bring our fury to the table top.

 

Failing that, at least the authors are doing a sweet job of our lore lately.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I’m kind of shocked by the pessimism. We didn’t get WORSE - we only got better. If we get a stratagem to advance doctrines, which I imagine we will, we start in the tactical doctrine - sicarans, inceptors, intercessors - all of our “usual” shooty units really benefit. Our T1 melee harassers will continue to do what they’ve always done - wreck face. Now, our beta strikers - sang guard, van vets - DEATH COMPANY IMTERCESSORS - can really blend some heretics. I for one am stoked. My Libby dread - who has failed his last two games to manifest a single power

Edited November 25, 2019 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Frater Antodeniel]

I’m kind of shocked by the pessimism.

 

Your comment illustrate perfectly what i am : I'm French and I collect/play Blood Angels. Pessimism is in my nature. ^^

 

----------------------------

 

Now on the subject of Today's Article, regarding the Blood Angels :

 

On the positive side^^, the Savage Echoes doctrine is thematic and relatively good, the Invocation of Destruction Litany is also Ok, and the Black Rage is the Black Rage^^.

 

On the negative side, like said previously, the Biomantic Sarcophagus relic is a good idea, the only problem being that we do not have the Psychic Power to really make it worth it....also, big rant on the Rapid Fire Stratagem which is Primaris only....i doubt that previously and for 10k years, Non-Primaris DC were observing the bolter rituals between two session of shooting. My guess is that they used they weapons at their fullest potential.

 

----------------------------

 

Now about the Flesh Tearers (Supplement^^) :

 

Now that's more like it.....it is how i like the Flesh Tearers, strong and aggressives.

 

i think that in this regard, the Chapter Specific "Fury Within" is good, not to strong, not to weak. It appears to be balanced.

 

Now i'm waiting for the 6 Warlords Traits, the 6 Specific Relics, the "X" Stratagems, and....like all the recent supplements the Blood Angels Special-issue Wargear and the Litany of Battle that will to be availables to the Flesh Tearers too.^^

 

----------------------------

 

On the Blood Angels i'm Pessimist.

 

On the Flesh Tearers i'm Optimist.

 

Though of the Day :

 

"Strenght without Wisdom is nothing but Brutality, Wisdom without Strenght is nothing but Futility."

[Neuralshock]

I’m kind of shocked by the pessimism. We didn’t get WORSE - we only got better. If we get a stratagem to advance doctrines, which I imagine we will, we start in the tactical doctrine - sicarans, inceptors, intercessors - all of our “usual” shooty units really benefit. Our T1 melee harassers will continue to do what they’ve always done - wreck face. Now, our beta strikers - sang guard, van vets - DEATH COMPANY IMTERCESSORS - can really blend some heretics. I for one am stoked. My Libby dread - who has failed his last two games to manifest a single power

[Indefragable]

 

What continually worries me about BA is having so much locked up in successfull charges yet not having reliable ways of re-rolling charges* means we will be burning even more CP on Command Re-Roll dice for those crucially necessary charges.

 

As always, will withhold full judgement until I've seen it all, but seems they erred too far on the "safe" side of the spectrum.

 

*other than Lemartes and the new Chaplain Litanies, but the former only applies to a single type of unit and the latter requires some finesse to get to work, especially with out Deep Strike-happy style

We have a ton of reroll options or ways of pushing the odds on charges, 3d6 charge, Angels wing, Wings of sang and quickening, magna-grapples. Now canticle of hate.

 

Undoubtedly it's going to take a lot more brainpower and movement planning to keep cp usage down, but I think with a bit of stategery you can break the back of your opponent with a single charge phase

 

 

3D6 Charge = a Strategem (so has a cost) and effects a single unit in a single circumstance

 

Angel's Wing = a Relic (so again, has a cost) that effects a single unit

 

Wings of Sanguinius = psychic power that can be denied (which more and more factions are getting bonuses to) and once again, effects a single unit

 

The Quickening = see above, and yet again, there can be only one (unit effected by it)

 

Magna-Grapples: available to only 2 very specific unit types and only usable against Vehicles, but hey, at least it can be on a unit type rather than a single unit

 

Canticle of Hate = Litany that effects all units within 6" ...ok, now we're talking. This is more along the lines of a buff that effects our army rather than just a single unit.

 

To your point, there are plenty of ways to get a single unit to be a bit better at charging, but nothing that effects our faction as a whole. Why I would love to see +1 to dice rolled for charges as part of Red Thirst or such, something that makes Scouts, Tacticals, Intercessors, Incursors, Infiltrators, Aggressors, Reivers, etc... more impactful when it comes to making use of their Red Thirst ability. The Litany is much needed and a better example of something that really takes BA to another level....of course the implementation is a bit wonky, but that's a conversation for another time.

 

 

The litanies look weird - when do they activate? When the model makes the attack or if it is around the model when the litany was inspiring, so at the start of the turn?

 

Otherwise, what my post was missing - yay, free stuff!

And this is GW, so we shouldn’t take this for granted. Only a small payment of 32,50€ will net you the rules the other factions get in their main army or through an FAQ.

 

Did the grav bomb get interesting for us at last?

 

Litanies activate at the Start of the Battle Round. So even if you're going second, you need to pop them at the top of each Battle Round. This is crucial because it means you need to have your Chaplain and preferred receiver(s) of buffs in position at the start of each Battle Round. Aka do not put Mr. Chappy in a Transport to start the game or Deep Strike, etc.... since they have to be on the board in order to activate it. Hence why it's particularly wonky for us to combo with Descent of Angels and such.

 

I have used a Dark Apostle in my Iron Warriors list a bunch so I have firsthand experience in the pros/cons of the mechanic.

 

For us as BA, it's going to be tricky since T1 we could make the greatest benefit of the +1 To Hit shooting one, but then we want to be jumping up the board to set up the +2 to charges for our Assault units. I think this is where Astorath may start to see the table more if he inherently can chant 2x Litanies instead of just 1.

[Majkhel]

Having C:SM doctrines is infinitely better than not having any.

And if we get the half-damage strat for our Lubby Dread it would be sweet.

 

EDIT: please tell me DC Intercessors will not be LD7. Cause a 2W model running away will hurt.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Majkhel

[Indefragable]

 

I’m kind of shocked by the pessimism. We didn’t get WORSE - we only got better. If we get a stratagem to advance doctrines, which I imagine we will, we start in the tactical doctrine - sicarans, inceptors, intercessors - all of our “usual” shooty units really benefit. Our T1 melee harassers will continue to do what they’ve always done - wreck face. Now, our beta strikers - sang guard, van vets - DEATH COMPANY IMTERCESSORS - can really blend some heretics. I for one am stoked. My Libby dread - who has failed his last two games to manifest a single power - now might pull his weight. Everything I field, and I imagine that we all field, only got better.

 

^This^ honestly the BA were in the best spot to start with arguably save pre-nerf Guilliman. The only thing we're comparing against is a newly powerful codex SM and honestly some crazy super docs. We're getting the majority of the beefy mechanics that makes codex SM good

 

 

Yes, 2 is better than 1 in the sense that 1+1 = 2. However, the "pessimism" comes from the fact that we got +1 when we really needed +3 to stay truly competitive. If we were at a 4 before and C:SM were at a 3, then now we're a 5 and C:SM is a 7.5 or 8.

 

Say there's a car that's being sold for $1000.00. The sales guy says he'll give you a discount of $100 on it., so you get it for $900.  Not bad, you think. But then you come back the next day and see that the sticker price is now $800. The sale guy, however, still writes you up for $900 and when you comment about the sticker price now being $800, he replies "why are you so pessimistic? You're getting $100 off!" **

 

These changes are not "bad", they just are not necessarily "good" when accounting for an evolving game.

 

Just like with Mephiston's "upgrade", in a vacuum, without taking all the facts* into account, yes, it seems like it's better, but it's not anywhere near as good when you take the whole of the game environment into account.

 

 

 

*I will admit the irony in me saying that right now since this is all based on a single preview article and we do not have the full book in our hands.

**buyer beware if you're actually going to drive a $1000 car

[Pathstrider]

Gotta say I’m pretty happy with savage echoes- I tend to play counter assault so turn three is about when I’m ready to launch.

[Charlo]

As with most factions, its the stratagems that make or break it.

 

For Savage Echoes everyone is thinking too literally. It's not there to make your Deathstar go out and conquer everything asap. It's there so that when it hits turn three most of our units will have advanced up the board and shot decently thanks to Dev/ Tac doctrine and now be ready to deliver an earth shattering charge. Not to mention there is nothing stopping you holding a Jump Pack unit back until turn 3 and charging 3D6 to get them in. Smaller units just got a lot deadlier. Even a lone marine has a chance at dealing major damage to other units.

[BluejayJunior]

Looking at the Rapid Fire stratagem from the C:SM, it just lists Intercessor Squad. Doesn't say anything about Veterans. I think that was just for the Vigilus detachment version of it. And the Veteran Intercessor change the unit name or add a keyword to the unit it is used on. 

Since the BA Rapid Fire strat specifically calls out Blood Angel Intercessor Squads and Death Company Intercessor Squads, I don't think the DC Intercessors are going to be made using a stratagem. I think it's going to be a new datasheet for them. Otherwise, I would assume it would follow the wording of the Veteran Intercessor stratagem and say something along the lines of "Use on an Intercessor Squad and that unit gets the Black Rage ability and gains the Death Company keyword" (like Death Visions of Sanguinius). The fact that it is bolded and called out separately from regular Intercessors makes me think it will be a new unit/datasheet.

[Neuralshock]

Looking at the Rapid Fire stratagem from the C:SM, it just lists Intercessor Squad. Doesn't say anything about Veterans. I think that was just for the Vigilus detachment version of it. And the Veteran Intercessor change the unit name or add a keyword to the unit it is used on.

Since the BA Rapid Fire strat specifically calls out Blood Angel Intercessor Squads and Death Company Intercessor Squads, I don't think the DC Intercessors are going to be made using a stratagem. I think it's going to be a new datasheet for them. Otherwise, I would assume it would follow the wording of the Veteran Intercessor stratagem and say something along the lines of "Use on an Intercessor Squad and that unit gets the Black Rage ability and gains the Death Company keyword" (like Death Visions of Sanguinius). The fact that it is bolded and called out separately from regular Intercessors makes me think it will be a new unit/datasheet.

This also begs the question of if other units might have a separate DC datasheet and you pay points in lieu of cp for the benefit?

[Dont-Be-Haten]

5

[Morticon]

*clears throat*

 

 

 

 

*ahem*

 

 

 

 

 

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[BluejayJunior]

 

Looking at the Rapid Fire stratagem from the C:SM, it just lists Intercessor Squad. Doesn't say anything about Veterans. I think that was just for the Vigilus detachment version of it. And the Veteran Intercessor change the unit name or add a keyword to the unit it is used on.

Since the BA Rapid Fire strat specifically calls out Blood Angel Intercessor Squads and Death Company Intercessor Squads, I don't think the DC Intercessors are going to be made using a stratagem. I think it's going to be a new datasheet for them. Otherwise, I would assume it would follow the wording of the Veteran Intercessor stratagem and say something along the lines of "Use on an Intercessor Squad and that unit gets the Black Rage ability and gains the Death Company keyword" (like Death Visions of Sanguinius). The fact that it is bolded and called out separately from regular Intercessors makes me think it will be a new unit/datasheet.

This also begs the question of if other units might have a separate DC datasheet and you pay points in lieu of cp for the benefit?

 

I don't think so. The article said that when Primaris fall to the Black Rage, they are organized into Intercessor Squads. Could possibly have something similar to Deathwatch Intercessor squads with mixed units, but I'm not counting on that. 

[keeblerartillery]

*clears throat*

 

 

 

 

*ahem*

 

 

 

 

 

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

My thoughts exactly! DC troops stuffed into impulsors ready to drop 6A on the charge? Get some.

[Morticon]

Iron Hands and RG set a bar far, far, far too high.  

This is AMAZING.  

SM strats, Doctrines and a small combat buff is literally all I hoped for.  

Not all I wanted, admittedly, but - it's good.  

To lift us up, we will require some additional movement based shenanigans.  Without that,we're going to struggle.  

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Iron Hands and RG set a bar far, far, far too high.

 

This is AMAZING.

 

SM strats, Doctrines and a small combat buff is literally all I hoped for.

 

Not all I wanted, admittedly, but - it's good.

 

To lift us up, we will require some additional movement based shenanigans. Without that,we're going to struggle.

Bold for truth.

[Djangomatic82]

Question, would any of you deploy and use DC Intercessors in the same way you use regular Intercessors? Without a good, cheap way to get them into position, equivalent in cost and capacity to a Rhino, Drop Pod or Jump Packs, I don't really see how they will play any different than reg ones do now. I don't think they are a good target for Forlorn Fury as well.

[Indefragable]

Question, would any of you deploy and use DC Intercessors in the same way you use regular Intercessors? Without a good, cheap way to get them into position, equivalent in cost and capacity to a Rhino, Drop Pod or Jump Packs, I don't really see how they will play any different than reg ones do now. I don't think they are a good target for Forlorn Fury as well.

If they’re Troops without having to pay CP then there’s potential; basically you play them as aggressive versions of regular Intercessors who can benefit from Lemartes.

[Morticon]

Question, would any of you deploy and use DC Intercessors in the same way you use regular Intercessors? Without a good, cheap way to get them into position, equivalent in cost and capacity to a Rhino, Drop Pod or Jump Packs, I don't really see how they will play any different than reg ones do now. I don't think they are a good target for Forlorn Fury as well.

 

5/6 in an Impulsor is the only way i'd play them.  Maybe with a Primaris Chappy.

 

Question, would any of you deploy and use DC Intercessors in the same way you use regular Intercessors? Without a good, cheap way to get them into position, equivalent in cost and capacity to a Rhino, Drop Pod or Jump Packs, I don't really see how they will play any different than reg ones do now. I don't think they are a good target for Forlorn Fury as well.

If they’re Troops without having to pay CP then there’s potential; basically you play them as aggressive versions of regular Intercessors who can benefit from Lemartes.

 

Are they rumoured to be Troops? 

[keeblerartillery]

 

 

Question, would any of you deploy and use DC Intercessors in the same way you use regular Intercessors? Without a good, cheap way to get them into position, equivalent in cost and capacity to a Rhino, Drop Pod or Jump Packs, I don't really see how they will play any different than reg ones do now. I don't think they are a good target for Forlorn Fury as well.

5/6 in an Impulsor is the only way i'd play them. Maybe with a Primaris Chappy.

 

Question, would any of you deploy and use DC Intercessors in the same way you use regular Intercessors? Without a good, cheap way to get them into position, equivalent in cost and capacity to a Rhino, Drop Pod or Jump Packs, I don't really see how they will play any different than reg ones do now. I don't think they are a good target for Forlorn Fury as well.

If they’re Troops without having to pay CP then there’s potential; basically you play them as aggressive versions of regular Intercessors who can benefit from Lemartes.

Are they rumoured to be Troops?

Not rumored per se - but logical conclusion. The way the article is written, coupled with the way the stratagem is key worded, makes it a logical inference. Why would they be explicitly organized into intercessors squads if not to play the role of the intercessors, I.e. troop. Also, the SM veteran variant is a troop choice as well. So only makes sense.