Indefragable Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 I've been trying to think of some SoH that will be on the Vengeful Spirit in the last book that we already know. I can't think of any. Ezekyle was busting through the defenses of the Palace when Horus died. I guess Sev will drop the shields. Is he with the Lion or Corswain? it's almost as if horus will drop the shields No kidding. For the life of me I’ll never understand all the theories floating around about “who” drops the shields. Isn’t it (the closest thing to) established canon that Horus deliberately lowered them to bait that final 1:1 that the entire Siege had been working up to? It’s fits his character so well, especially if the whole Horus psychically talking to his dad-as-an-old-man—huddled-around-a-dying-fire thing from The Solar War is going on the whole time As for the Red Wedding comment......isn’t kind of the Red Wedding’s whole shtick killing off characters before their time and leaving you with a feeling of emptiness? Roomsky 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 i have one foot in both camps- from a Watsonian view, some threads should be cut short prematurely. no doubt. from a Doylist one, i want to see certain character arcs...happen. i can agree that the SoH are getting a bit thin on the pov ranks in the same way it seems like the WS are. i'm just hoping the authors are aware and in control of what they're doing. SpAcEGhOsT095, Indefragable and Tyrannicide 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 I think they're making it a point in the Siege series to not give every character a satisfying arc and to not be light-handed with the character deaths. I'd have to actually read the book, but I think the problem isn't his unceremonious death in Saturnine, it's his lack of development between Vengeful Spirit and Saturnine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 This is why I went into wanting only 2 things. 1. Hold to the major notes of the story, I dont want your 'shocking truth!'. 2. Hold to the spirit of the setting. Like Master of Mankind did. Essentially, I just want them to not screw up what was essentially a softball. Expecting them to actually close out the series without issue and any dud's...well no. After the End Times in Fantasy, after the absolute BLOAT that was the Heresy, after the Beast series? Its clear they did not have a strong enough voice to hold the authors to a cohesive vision over even a series as small as what the Siege should have been. French didnt let me down. Wraight and ADB have yet to let me down. I wont have high expectations for anything else. SpAcEGhOsT095 and Ingo Pech 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 I think they're making it a point in the Siege series to not give every character a satisfying arc and to not be light-handed with the character deaths. I'd have to actually read the book, but I think the problem isn't his unceremonious death in Saturnine, it's his lack of development between Vengeful Spirit and Saturnine This (the spoiler part). That’s my gripe with a lot of things, especially with dudes like Jubal Khan . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karden00 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Man, not since reading the spoilers for Praetorian of Dorn have I regretted reading a spoiler on here so much. I won’t read any more of these threads till Dan the Man closes out the series. JH79 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) Man, not since reading the spoilers for Praetorian of Dorn have I regretted reading a spoiler on here so much. I won’t read any more of these threads till Dan the Man closes out the series. HahaYou at least got a choice. I have to read them in order to keep an eye out for trouble. ;) Edited March 25, 2020 by Kelborn Lord Lorne Walkier and Scammel 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) @ Indefragable Yes, French introduced him in style in Templar. Wraight carried the torch brilliantly in Path of Heaven and gave us a surprising but interesting twist in Warhawk (though inadvertantly retconned by French in Solar War). French offed the character in the same book, which was fine...but I felt that this character had so much potential to be realized prior to Solar War. A few short stories or a novella or two involving him would have been excellent. These could have covered the gulf between Scars and Path of Heaven. Great material for a novella actually. Edited March 25, 2020 by b1soul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuittzz Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 If Aximand was disposed of so unceremoniously , why did not just have Sigismund actually kill him in Solar War now? At least give some fan service. The Emperors Champion won't be challenging and killing chaos champions in single combat at this rate. Current tally is slapped around by Khârn and a failed kill on Eidolon. Because Loken/Aximand encounter IS the fan service? Because that’s now how war works. Seriously do not understand people’s problem with characters getting gacked in chance encounters/unceremoniously/however you’d like to think of it. The Heresy still retains a very classical epic feel, but moments like that illustrate that it doesn’t matter how important you or others think you are. The universe doesn’t skip a beat and you do not matter. Personally, I love the more realistic and sudden deaths. Maybe I’m in the minority. Not every fight needs to be a Marvel movie. I like the classical epic feel too and am all for the unremarkable GoT-style deaths. It's the lack of consistency that irks me and the picking and choosing of when physics and plot armour clash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rookie40K Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) I guess I look at the defeat of any character like mix martial arts. Anyone can be beat by almost anyone because of how their styles match up, one mistake, or circumstances. Sometimes great fighters get knocked out in a few seconds by a decent fighter and dominate almost everyone else. I’ m sanguine with what I’m hearing about Loken. He should be a big deal in the story and may very likely be present/part of the final battle between Big E and Horus. In regards to the negativity about knowing certain characters obviously survive as they are present in 40K, we are reading future history. We all know what happens to Horus and the Emperor in the end, but we are all here anxiously waiting to find out how. On the flip side, possible mistakes of characters dying that are later present, uh yeah that would suck. At least with a certain Fist character, we know they have a tradition of taking another’s name in honor of that person. Trying to be optimistic. Side note, I hope that since Sigismund has been humbled a lot in the series and realizes he needs to be something else, that the Big E speaks to him and sort of blesses him, making him the first emperors champion. Then he takes out a can of whoop as and starts annihilating daemons and dominating big name characters. Edited March 25, 2020 by rookie40K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Sigismund doesn’t need a power up. Power ups are bad. Marshal Loss and DarkChaplain 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammel Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Oh, it's definitely coming. I think the best we can hope for is that it's a mindset shift - Dorn finally giving Sigismund carte blanche to unleash his convictions and release all that zeal into Khârn's face - rather than a psychic level-up from the Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rookie40K Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Doesn’t the Emperor’s Champion 40K Black Templar’s usually have some sort of “vision” that may come from the Emperor? I’m genuinely asking as I really don’t know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Sigismund doesn’t need a power up. Power ups are bad. Maybe a second wind more than a power-up, like Mad Max in Fury Road or Rama in The Raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Nah, full on Rodimus Prime style. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyIzzBf18pg mc warhammer and Silent Observant 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Sounds like Sigismund's "power-up" is going to be faith-based. Like how current 40K is emphasizing miracles of faith like Celestine and such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Not my preference, but I can certainly see it happening 'Now...Sigismund Prime....YEAH!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Gav Thorpe is not subtle and The First Wall has Sigismund thinking to himself that he needs to harness the power of the Emperor or somesuch to counter Chaos-enhanced marines like Khârn. It's a tad juvenile but I am glad it probably won't be Thorpe actually executing the idea in a later book...or will it. Please no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Oh...well I had not read that...comical. Better hope ADB gets to own it, or Wraight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 ...or French, I suppose. Not Haley, Thorpe, or McNeill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Yeah, yeah, I think we all know each others' author preferences by now.... As for Sigismund having those thoughts: They're a direct result of Keeler's meddling. They didn't arise in a vacuum, but are a reaction to seeing his first proper daemons after Layak blows himself up, and recalling what Keeler said about the Emperor needing a champion of his own to stand against those of the gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 I mean...of course it didnt just come from nothing (it was the Black Templars fluff reboot in 40K that needed some 'historical grounding'...aka it was a retcon) but that they are already setting up for him to go Super Saiyan on the holy power of the Emperor's Belief...is one of the more unfortunate 'additions' of the Heresy series to the lore. (For those keeping score Euphrati Keeler is an invention offffffffffffffff Dan Abnett.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammel Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 There's one revelation that isn't being discussed much... The Emperor has a personality, apparently. It seems quite contradictory to his depiction in Master of Mankind, but I quite like the change. A benign individual, isolated by his talent, taking solace in his ambition... I can dig it. I_Am_IronSam and byrd9999 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Valor mentions that through the time of Unity the Emperor was losing his humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 There's one revelation that isn't being discussed much... The Emperor has a personality, apparently. It seems quite contradictory to his depiction in Master of Mankind, but I quite like the change. A benign individual, isolated by his talent, taking solace in his ambition... I can dig it. Is that really a revelation? After all, as we've seen in MoM, even his personality as Erda thought she knew it might just be a reflection of what she expected to see. Who's to say he only started doing that stuff recently? Though, frankly, I don't think the Emperor ever lacked a personality. There are some mostly consistent aspects that run through his more earnest conversations with the Primarchs, Malcador and others. Heck, even his showing in The Last Church seems at least somewhat genuine, despite him keeping up a veil throughout. And even then, his desires and means to achieve them sketch a fairly good picture of what kind of person he ought to be. SpAcEGhOsT095, Kelborn and 1ncarnadine 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts