The Defence of Ryza

[Fire Golem]

Not sure why the book, unless my eyes deceive me, describes Magna as a minor Titan Legion when we know from the black books that they were one of the largest in the Imperium...

 

That error aside, Magna's rules are fantastic. Absolutely thrilled. Also really pleased that each Legio gets at least 3 art pieces each - far superior to some of their lazier books, e.g. Molech & S&I. Cannot wait for my pre-order to get here.

Which black book are Magna mentioned in?

[Gore Crow]

 

Which black book are Magna mentioned in?

 

 

Book III says they are a "Primus Grade Legio" alongside Gryphonicus and Crucius, but not as big as Mortis or Destructor. 

[Marshal Loss]

 

 

Which black book are Magna mentioned in?

 

 

Book III says they are a "Primus Grade Legio" alongside Gryphonicus and Crucius, but not as big as Mortis or Destructor. 

 

Thanks Gore Crow - yep, HH: Extermination. Not quite the definition of a "minor" Legio. :P

[Mandragola]

Interesting. I seem to need a new Warlord then, to field Extermigus. I got excited for a moment there that they'd give me the 5 Warlord maniple I'd really like to have, but I guess this will have to do for now.

 

The maniple is completely brutal, and I kind of love it. It lets me bring 4 warlords to a 2000 point game, though not 5 to 2500. That'll have to wait, I guess.

 

The greatest benefit probably goes to guns with either 4 shots or loads of shots. Turbo laser destroyers at S10 are pretty horrible. Sunfurys become risky, but utterly devastating. Quake cannons kind of become Bellicosas. Actual Bellicosas gain very little.

 

One nice thing for me is that you advance the reactor track but you don't actually roll the dice. So my Astorum can do it after war marching without any extra penalty.

 

The only slightly annoying thing is that four Warlords with sensible armaments come in quite a bit under 2k, but not by enough to get any other unit. If I bring a Warbringer and 3 Warlords I can fit in a couple of Cerastus though. That would also mean I wouldn't need to buy any more Warlords, which is probably a good thing.

[1ncarnadine]

I'll have to see the book proper to refine this, but I think I'm going to build Legio Osedax into an Extergimus maniple. Plasma channels and big reactors to handle the heat load from Blood Begets Blood and the maniple trait. I'm pretty sold with them from what I can see atm.

 

edit: actually, might be really tough to ever trigger BBB and get a reasonable effect out with just WLs and maybe a Warbringer. I'll have to think about this more...

Edited July 30, 2020 by LetsYouDown

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Even Vulkans would be deadly...

[1ncarnadine]

Even Vulkans would be deadly...

Oh, yeah. Wait. Can Vulturum combo those storm-frag rounds with Extergimus's rule?? I think so... and if they kill something in the same round, they negate the long-range penalty from taking the storm-frag rounds. You'll probably burn your reactor out but that's still a S8 VMB.

[Fajita Fan]

What’s in the new maniple? I’m at work and can’t watch the video right now.

[Marshal Loss]

Potentially stupid question, what weapons have the "melta" trait? My melta cannon cards have "fusion" as a trait, but Magna's wargear affects all weapons with the "melta trait". "Melta" doesn't appear as a trait in the rulebook as well. Is this an error?

 

What’s in the new maniple? I’m at work and can’t watch the video right now.

 

[Beren]

Edit: Nevermind, misunderstood the query.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Beren

[Marshal Loss]

It looks to me that it reads as "*without* the *melee* trait" rather than with the melta.

No, definitely not. This is the exact wording:

 

 

 

Any Legio Magna Titan armed with a weapon with the Melta trait may be equipped with a Directed Pressure Outlet for +10 points. Each Melta weapon the Titan is armed with must be upgraded separately. A Titan equipped with a Directed Pressure Outlet adds 3" to the weapon's short range.

[Mandragola]

 

It looks to me that it reads as "*without* the *melee* trait" rather than with the melta.

No, definitely not. This is the exact wording:

 

 

 

Any Legio Magna Titan armed with a weapon with the Melta trait may be equipped with a Directed Pressure Outlet for +10 points. Each Melta weapon the Titan is armed with must be upgraded separately. A Titan equipped with a Directed Pressure Outlet adds 3" to the weapon's short range.

 

You guys are talking about different abilities, both of which exist. The melta upgrade is for Legio Magna and the other ability is for a maniple.

 

By the way I really don't recommend doing this combined with the Gore Crow maximal VMBs. That's an extremely good way to blow up your own Warlord. It's true that 12 S8 shots are very scary, but so is the average 4 heat you gain in the process of doing that. VMBs are a pretty bad gun for a Warlord anyway with their 10-20" range. If you need to add heat to get into position, very bad things are likely to happen to you.

 

I think I'll be happy with S12 Sunfurys. That'll do me nicely.

 

What do people think about the allegiance abilities? I'm interested to try those out. The Traitor one of just running a bit faster is really nice, especially since my Mortis Warlord is Penumbral Reaper. The Loyalist one is a bit more subtle, but potentially adds a lot. I think the best use of it might be to switch full stride on and off, depending on the situation you find yourself in. I'm less excited by the black shield one because it seems to require taking titans that aren't in maniples, and I like maniples.

[Warsmith Uveron]

The books looking good cannot wait to get my hands on it got notification of it shipping yesterday so hopefully it will be arriving soon. (And I stop working 75hr weeks so I have time to think about AT)

[1ncarnadine]

What do people think about the allegiance abilities? I'm interested to try those out. The Traitor one of just running a bit faster is really nice, especially since my Mortis Warlord is Penumbral Reaper. The Loyalist one is a bit more subtle, but potentially adds a lot. I think the best use of it might be to switch full stride on and off, depending on the situation you find yourself in. I'm less excited by the black shield one because it seems to require taking titans that aren't in maniples, and I like maniples.

 

I'm just getting to them now, but I notice mentions of Titans of Legend (even for Blackshields) and Renegade Knight Houses (to be described in a future supplement!). Sounds promising!

 

If I'm reading the loyalist one right, you could always swap on to Split Fire too as needed? And skip its movement phase downside. Not going to be as frequently useful but it's a card in your hand. Off the top of my head, I think Lysanda can use Vanguard Leader + Full Stride + Squadron Orders to pull a fast advance? That's probably a pretty rare use case and anyone on their game would find it telegraphed by the emergency repairs order though edit: nope, misread this in the video

 

Love the traitor trait. It's just a clear, direct bonus to what I already wanted to do with Legio Vulpa.

 

 

By the way I really don't recommend doing this combined with the Gore Crow maximal VMBs. That's an extremely good way to blow up your own Warlord. It's true that 12 S8 shots are very scary, but so is the average 4 heat you gain in the process of doing that. VMBs are a pretty bad gun for a Warlord anyway with their 10-20" range. If you need to add heat to get into position, very bad things are likely to happen to you.

 

I think I'll be happy with S12 Sunfurys. That'll do me nicely.

Also, the storm frag round upgrade on the WL VMBs is absurdly expensive. As if the concept needed another nail in its coffin

Edited August 2, 2020 by LetsYouDown

[Marshal Loss]

 

 

It looks to me that it reads as "*without* the *melee* trait" rather than with the melta.

No, definitely not. This is the exact wording:

 

 

 

Any Legio Magna Titan armed with a weapon with the Melta trait may be equipped with a Directed Pressure Outlet for +10 points. Each Melta weapon the Titan is armed with must be upgraded separately. A Titan equipped with a Directed Pressure Outlet adds 3" to the weapon's short range.

 

You guys are talking about different abilities, both of which exist. The melta upgrade is for Legio Magna and the other ability is for a maniple.

 

...yeah, I know, Beren edited his post after I quoted it. My point was that the Magna weapon upgrade currently doesn't work, RAW, because melta weapons don't have "melta" as a trait.

 

edit: although, upon consultation, I think it might be 20 instead of 10 points

 

 

Love the traitor trait. It's just a clear, direct bonus to what I already wanted to do with Legio Vulpa.

 

 

Ditto! Such a nice little thematic bonus - I absolutely love the addition of allegiances. It's a minor thing but probably my favourite addition from what I've seen so far.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Marshal Loss

[Noserenda]

Oooh that sounds interesting overall, skipped through the video and all the allegiance abilities sound good, as do the maniples, wish he had gotten the Knight banners in focus though, ive been painting a lot of them and im interested to see if its worth converting a bunch more flags for them :D 

[Fajita Fan]

Oh wow, that maniple sounds good for a quake cannon that could hit the enemy twice since it's also blast. My traitors have 3 Warlords*.

 

 

*whenever I finish painting them. 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Fajita Fan

[depthcharge12]

Strength 12 plasma would be hilarious. Or take the super maximal Fire strategem and go for S14 shots Edited July 31, 2020 by depthcharge12

[Sherrypie]

Got the book, read the book, pretty nice. All legios are interesting but not overtly powerful, knights got a nice bone in various standards they can use to trick around with and the custom legio rules seem to be made with more sense this time (Auxiliary Shields, Elite Magos, Multiple Warheads etc. have been tuned to be less borked and freely selectable existing traits and wargear options from established legios is no longer there). Allegiance rules make sense and don't really affect the power balance in any way while added stratagems aren't must-have-powerhouses. But finally, you can select the direction to Fall over in for the cheap price of 1 stratagem point, huzah!

[Xin Ceithan]

Have also begun flipping through this, very nice.

But I noticed that it lists TWO Titan Legions from Xana. One is obviously Gore Crows - have we any idea what the the other one is?

[Beren]

Have also begun flipping through this, very nice.

But I noticed that it lists TWO Titan Legions from Xana. One is obviously Gore Crows - have we any idea what the the other one is?

Legio Kydianos- The Death Cry

 

On a tangential note, the Allegiance section makes reference to Loyalist Maniples of both Legio Mortis and Legio Audax.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Beren

[Sandlemad]

This is a good book. As with Shadow & Iron, this is a marked improvement from the first two books. The legion and maniple rules, and the allegiance stuff, are the parts that justifiably get the attention but there's a lot of other cool stuff as well.

 

Background-wise, the Ryza campaign and especially the section detailing Ryza's history are fantastic, considerably better than what we saw in Doom of Molech or Titandeath. There's some real gems here, the kinds of things that would stand out even in a black book. I particularly liked the background for the Sea of Reclamation, an ocean of effluent and waste which tech-priests comb over not just for scrap but also for the rare and unexpected chemicals that spontaneously form in its depths from the forges' output. That's such a neat concept. Overall I'd still judge the AT books as relatively light on fluff but still, this is an improvement.

 

Other background gems:

• Loyalist Mortis titans with crude aquilas on their hulls. Audax titans turning on their allies at Beta-Garmon. Short-lived blackshield empires dominated by titans, with even a maniple of warhounds sufficient to enforce dominance over a system or more.
• The Ryzan priesthood characterised as being devoted to the Omnissiah Igvita, devoted to plasma as the shed blood of a weirdly personal and sorrowful for his followers version of the Machine god.
• House Sidon as a completely secret knight house kept in Ryza's vaults in case of an eventual war with Mars... but that then, faintly embarrassingly, came in handy in the heresy.
• House Ioden as broken descendants of a multi-world age of strife knight-empire, restored by the imperium but then resenting imperial control of their worlds. A good non-chaotic reason for betrayal.
• House Taranis explicitly getting blue armour, gradually shedding it over the course of the heresy. I think this is a deliberate attempt to address an older inconsistency in their scheme and is the kind of thing fans had already copped to, so nice to see it acknowledged.
• House Oroborn's fall to Nurgle is a pretty well-worn story but holy moly their house icon is a banger: twinned moray eels in an S-pattern behind the eye of Horus.

The scenarios are interesting too. Pretty big, at least some of them, and interestingly there seems to be a more deliberate and variable inclusion of knight households. There's scenarios built for titan forces vs knight forces, scenarios where knights get specific rules to reflect their different choices and motivations from their titan legion allies.

 

In fact the whole book has quite a bit for knights. A curious quirk though, and one I'm not in love with, is how much more background the knight houses get than the titan legions. Each gets about half a page of background text compared to about a paragraph for each legion. In fairness the legions do have background associated with their wargear, strategems, traits, etc. and under the colour plates but it's still thinner than what the questoris get, which is unfortunate. Kind of feels like this might be purely down to page layout, that the titan pages need more space for rules compared to the more lightweight knight pages? That'd be a rather trivial reason for this lack but the AT supplements are pretty short on space.

 

It means that the characterisations of the knights are cool and interesting whereas the titans' are rather less so. What do we learn about Legio Magna? Well, they're aggro, were close to the SoH/WB, howl in battle... that's about it. Disappointing for what had been a prominent traitor legion in the past. Osedex, well, they're from Phaeton and seek vengeance against the traitors. Not much there, we saw almost the same in Doom of Molech with Fortidus. Like, more could have been made of Phaeton's feud with Mars and how that impacted the legion's political and cultural history. Honorum is basically a slightly more traditionalist variant on Gryphonicus's characterisation, if even that. Vulturum stands out as getting the most development, perhaps because so much work had been done on Xana II and Malinax already.

 

That would be my most significant complaint about what's otherwise a very solid AT supplement. I wasn't expected black book levels of detail but that it did so well in other regards and then fell flat on legion character (what is surely the background that has most appeal to players) was disappointing.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Sandlemad

[Fajita Fan]

They have more space to fill with flavor text about knights because the legions get more space filled with rules I think.

[Noserenda]

Yep definitely that, most legios get most of a page of rules whilst knights get a warlord trait table :D 

[Beren]

I wouldn't say no to an additional page of Legio fluff myself.