War of the Spider

[.Torch.]

I assumed from how the books describe them that they are a rare commodity, only appearing in small numbers. While they might be scattered across a large area, I imagined them not being units you would deploy to the battlefield frequently. I don't think they are really comparable to Marines. I hope we get a nice chunk of information on their current standing in War of the Spider.

Anyone got any old school lore on the Sister of Silence that might be worth a read? Seeing as most of us are stuck inside.

[balordazul]

The lore from "The Regent's Shadow" is the most current lore for SoS until PA hits and they have SoS at a very small number pulled in all different directions.  The lore changes now vs even 5 years ago where we had a stagnant statuesque.  This will make it harder to keep up with the lore as we have lore sites that could easily be out of date. 

 

Going back to what Torch said having a cleared up and well written rule set for Valerian and Aleya would be nice.

 

Also getting a real HQ for SoS would be very helpful even if it is Aleya.

[.Torch.]

I'm kind of hoping that the Forgeworld 40k books will be on the same level as the Horus Heresy books. I'd love a nice weighty book with all the beautiful artwork and lore that Forgeworld produce for Talons.

[Noserenda]

Theyve been popping up in WD a lot with their Indomnitus Crusade fluff pieces, Chris Wraight's Watchers of the Throne series is the only modern series focusing on them afaik but they do pop up in at least the Dark Imperium books too.

Why wouldnt you deploy them to battle though? I mean they are specialists sure but the whole Psychic awakening going on right now means that specialism is really in demand :) 

Marines are absolutely comparable when people start spouting off about things being "too rare to be troops choices" there are less than 500 Ultramarine tactical marines in the entire universe, substantially less now we have Primaris taking up their slots btu noone would argue they should be an elites choice, i mean in canon there are no Scythes of the Emperor tactical marines but they kind of need to be there so people can field an army, which it would nice for SoS to be able to without being hamstrung by game mechanics like command points.

[balordazul]

The production of those book are outstanding, my personal favorite is Tamurkhan for WFB as it is work of art.  That really should be the option for a CE edition of a codex vs a cover.

 

I'm not really sure what the future of FW is going to be with GW taking over the rules slowly.

 

@Noserenda 

 

I really think the reasoning for SoS being Index elites is that they are an after thought and protecting from allies abuse.  From what we saw with the Index they did a lot of work but could have easily used 3 times as long to test and tune the armies more.  

Edited April 1, 2020 by balordazul

[Darkwrath121]

I'm cautiously optimistic for any cool rules/fluff coming for the Talons, so I suppose I'm content.

 

I'm kind of hoping that the Forgeworld 40k books will be on the same level as the Horus Heresy books. I'd love a nice weighty book with all the beautiful artwork and lore that Forgeworld produce for Talons.

I highly doubt they will be, as they're being done by GW rather than Forgeworld, who no longer do the 40k rules for their models Edited April 1, 2020 by Darkwrath121

[ThePenitentOne]

There's always been conflicts between BL fiction and actual game books. As far as I am concerned, 40k fiction cannot ever be regarded as 40k game cannon. I'm not sure if there is any FW lore for SoS in 40K, it was my understanding that the only FW SoS lore is 30k.

 

And if that's true, then I feel the only that is relevant is in WD October 2019.

 

So what's in there? 

 

Well, after the Heresy, SoS sort of lost their centralized organizational structure and continued to function independently of others, with small groups all over the galaxy. At the beginning of the Indomitus Crusade, Guilliman pulls about 3k sisters from around Terra back to the home world to form the Vigil Indomitus. And yeah, it's 3 x the size of a Space marine chapter, and it's made up of just the Sisters in the Vicinity of Terra.

 

This Vigil is then broken into Cadres, who each have their own duties; many fly with the torchbearer fleets, where they make contact with other scattered vigils or cadres.

 

Cadres are defined as "Company Level" though they rarely fight together as a large force. This means Vigils are "Chapter Level"

Cadres each take one facet of a Vigil's duties, and they operate with a high degree of autonomy.

Typical duties include, monitoring the tithe, hunting psykers, and attending the Black Ships. 

 

There are 5 Vigils described in the WD, each with their own scheme:

- Auric Eagles

- Crimson Lions

- Bone Tigers

- Steel Drakes

- Ebon Talons

 

There's more in the WD, but not much more.

[.Torch.]

@Noserenda

I wouldn't say my assumptions are just 'spouted off', it's the image I got from reading Chris Wraight's books. The novels make them sound super rare despite their dispersion, much more so than tactical marines. Which although there might only be 500 hundred or so in a certain chapter, they are certainly more numerous than that. And far easier to replace, be it with replacement tactical marines or Primaris equivalents.

I guess to me they just suit the Elites role more than Troops as I see them as more of a support unit than a battle line one. But each to their own, I certainly wouldn't complain if they were made troops.

 

@Darkwrath121

Unfortunately you are correct.

[duz_]

=][= Let's not get to distracted with other topics. This thread is specifically about the up coming Psychic Awakening book Spider War. =][=

[balordazul]

A lot of the PA releases have a tied in box release.  Does anyone recall a three way box in the past?  If we don't get new units what do you think is likely to be in the box?

 

Maybe 1 guard unit, 1 SoS unit and Valerian and Aleya plus a rhino as GW likely has overstock on those.  DG maybe some quick build kits to be cheap.

[Zoatibix]

I hope that GW rebox the Sisters so that we can buy ten for the current price. The current models seem very costly for what they are.

[Dallas Drake]

Picking up from what a lot have said here there’s two big things imo that have to happen to make this release worth a damn.

 

1. Sisters need a HQ and troop choice. As it stands SOS as elites aren’t going in anyone’s army... Ever. They need their psychic debuff looking at too so psychic armies don’t just outrange them and the swords need to be +2S -2ap, flamers points need dropping hugely.

 

2. Custodes need something to make them feel like elite army again. They die too easily to all the high damage high ap weapons out there. Look at SMs and now GK and look at Custodes. They do pretty much everything we do better. Custodes need something (a rule or a strat) that reduces damage by 1 or halves damage. I’d prefer it as an army wide rule: +1 inv (max 3+) and -1 damage (to min 1).

 

Also a 1 CP strat that gives a unit +1inv save to a max of 3+ (so everyone isn’t just taking shields). Then something to make them more shooty, maybe a 1 CP strat that makes spears hit as rapid fire 2 a roll of a 4+ and hit at rapid fire 3 on a 6+. Maybe a melee equivalent too? We also need a 2 CP fight twice strat (otherwise we can’t kill buffed Paladins).

 

I’m just throwing wild ideas out there but right now all GW need to do is put a unit of Paladins & a unit of Wardens on the table and charge one into the other. Or just play a few games of IH, UM, RG vs Custodes. When I play against most armies now I’m reduced to taking shields and hiding.

 

FW stuff is a mess. I still think the Caladius is ‘okay’ and a double fist Telemon can catch folk out but yeah, what a freaking mess. I’d love to field a Galatus or Achilus.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Dallas Drake

[balordazul]

2. Custodes need something to make them feel like elite army again. They die too easily to all the high damage high ap weapons out there. Look at SMs and now GK and look at Custodes. They do pretty much everything we do better. Custodes need something (a rule or a strat) that reduces damage by 1 or halves damage. I’d prefer it as an army wide rule: +1 inv (max 3+) and -1 damage (to min 1).

 

 

Sadly the design team really has not done a good job balancing tougher or more resultant units for many additions between points or mechanics.  I would love to see Auramite is a -1 to wound rolls or a -1 one damage to a minimum of 1.  I think bigger changes would be in a new codex vs PA.  I do hope for we see GW try out some interesting options for PA as a testing ground for the next codex.

 

Also if I could like your full post twice I would. :)

[Dallas Drake]

Haha thanks. Yeah totally agree. -1 to wound or -1 damage would go a long way. If GW didn’t want to make that a rule they could make it a strat or a Vexilla option. Also I quite like the mechanic (max 4 damage per phase) they came up with for Ghazggkull, I never saw that coming so it shows they can sometimes surprise and think outside the box.

 

Sadly, I also think you’re right about real changes needing a new codex. Iirc SM captains now have the same wounds as Shield Captains? I mean come on, that’s just nonsense. What’s hurt us most is being unlucky to do well in soup lists coupled with just the usual GW rules bloat and codex creep. We should be significantly ‘better’ than SM in all respects, the fact we don’t shoot as well, aren’t as survivable as some factions (IH), and now don’t even melee as well as some SM (esp GK/SW) just shows how far we’ve fallen behind.

[rcoon]

I'll be blunt, I have zero faith in GW to give us even close to meta-capable rules. I fully expect us to be the afterthought in our PA similar to K Sons in theirs and Genestealers in Greater Good. It won't include any changes to FW units - which are currently our only good units outside of pure shield squads, since GW doesn't make rule changes to FW within PA books.

 

Don't get your hopes up.

[balordazul]

rcoon is right that it is likely to be 95% similar to all the other releases for PA.  Sure we have some standouts with Mars getting more models but these were likely already made years ago and just slotted for a release that would fit.  Also all of these rules in PA are likely made a while back and don't take into account at least the last 6 months to a year of the active game play.

 

We should see a leak today in theory about tomorrow and we do have a chance to GW to preview something or us if we are getting something new.  Also stay safe people and get some painting done if you are under quarantine. :)

[ThePenitentOne]

Blood of the Phoenix- One character + one unit for each of two factions; 4 new units in total, box set

Faith and Fury- One generic HQ model for one faction

Blood of Baal- One Named HQ from one faction

Ritual of the Damned- One Named HQ from one faction

Greater Good- One Named HQ from one faction

Saga of the Beast- Three new character sculpts, released as box set

Engine War- A vehicle and two units for a single faction [minimally- could be more; could be a box]

 

My point is that there is no "standard" PA release.

 

Single model PA only outnumbers multi-model PA by one release; I'd say if anything, that points to a multi release to make it an even 4/4 split.

 

I mean, it's all just speculation one way or another, but I think there's a case to be made for a multi-model treatment. I want get my hopes up high enough to be disappointed, but I'm optimistic.

[Dallas Drake]

We’ll get Valerian and Aleya. That’s it.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

We’ll get Valerian and Aleya. That’s it.

[Dallas Drake]

 

We’ll get Valerian and Aleya. That’s it.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

 

 

We’ll get Valerian and Aleya. That’s it.

[.Torch.]

I think it's unlikely we will get new models. But I am more than happy to be proven wrong. I can't watch the reveal later today, but would love to see something for Talons.

 

After thinking about it, I think realistically we can expect:

- New Stratagems (For Custodes, Sisters and Assassin's.)

- Talons key word changes to incorporate Sisters of Silence and Assassin's into our lists better.

- Shield Host Traits and a 'buffet' style homebrew rule set that we have seen with other armies.

 

A small change I'd like to see, but I believe is unlikely, would be Shield Captain's being able to take Specialist spears. I think it would be a good way to add a bit more customisation to our foot slogging Captains. Although I get that this is unlikely as they are Forgeworld bits.

I'd also like to see the other Assassin temples expanded. I believe this is our most likely avenue for new models, but I'm just speculating.

 

I beyond excited about this book now. I just hope my small collection of unpainted Custodes will last the lockdown. Hopefully the reveal this afternoon will bring something cool!

[balordazul]

Now another 2 week wait for the next possible preview.

[Dallas Drake]

I wish they would just give us the rules so we could start planning and theorising on what might be good etc. I rarely have spare time to devote to 40k & now, aside from painting up stuff long overdue, I have oodles of it. Edited April 5, 2020 by Dallas Drake

[Shield-Captain]

I was hoping against hope that we might get a Talion Gunship kit. They keep popping up in Black Library books and stories and it would be cool to actually see a model for one.