War of the Spider

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Maybe its me but i see so many stratagem, its ridiculous, we already have a :cusstons of good stratagem to use, now even more, its not because we can have 12 cp now than we need to burn them in 2 turn because without them, they didn't increase custodes stats so much...

I am wrong with that ?

They didn't change our stats...at all besides the ability to take super shield captains. Our issue is: we have very little to do with 2 of the phases without FW. Tiny tiny amount of shooting and no psychic phase at all without allying.

 

 

Our stats don't account for that. We just are the "well they should hopefully do a lot of damage in assault phase if not hopefully they survive" army.

[Kenzaburo]

I do wonder what these stratagems are supposed to do. Keep in mind that this PA book was supposed to come out quite a bit of time before 9th ed. So the GW bandaid for custodes was to supply a CP starved army with more stratagems, that they can't use for lack of the ressource? 

 

Now factoring in what we know about 9th, the army will still be vastly dependent on the use of CP and stratagems - just looking and comparing pure stats and army-wide special rules, we remain in the same rough spot. I don't know, I need to test these, but so far this doesn't sit right with me. Custodes should not only occasionally be able to be awesome, when they activate a stratagem, but most of the time. I thought that was the reason for us paying truckloads of points for them.

[Maouw]

I do wonder what these stratagems are supposed to do. Keep in mind that this PA book was supposed to come out quite a bit of time before 9th ed. So the GW bandaid for custodes was to supply a CP starved army with more stratagems, that they can't use for lack of the ressource? 

 

Now factoring in what we know about 9th, the army will still be vastly dependent on the use of CP and stratagems - just looking and comparing pure stats and army-wide special rules, we remain in the same rough spot. I don't know, I need to test these, but so far this doesn't sit right with me. Custodes should not only occasionally be able to be awesome, when they activate a stratagem, but most of the time. I thought that was the reason for us paying truckloads of points for them.

EXACTLY

 

That what i think too, that is what make me wonder the necessity to go for custodes. If they have regular bad rules but can be patched more or less with a truckload of stratagems, that don't feel right for me. Super human and awesome stratagem ? Okay. But if outside of that custodes got nothing to perform by themself, then something is wrong somewhere. And i agree the fact, this would have come as a patch for a cp starved army so why the solution is even more stratagem ?

[ThePenitentOne]

Haven't seen the book yet, just the preview. Wanted to say though that all PA was designed with 9th in mind; they knew they were going fixed CP when they wrote the book.

 

It seemed weird that they didn't preview any Shield Host traits; they didn't even say that Shield Host traits existed, just that you could get a specific WL Trait, Relic and a Strat. Every other sub-faction in the game, to my knowledge, has a subfaction bonus in addition to WL Traits, Strats and Relics.

 

The Host Commander strat is cool, because it essentially creates a new unit for Custodes (would be cooler if there was a model and Data sheet, but a virtual new unit is something). You can also use SoS now, so it's sort of like gaining two units... Without actually giving you new models.

 

I hope there are shield host traits in the book and they just didn't get previewed. I don't play Custodes, but I don't think it's fair to y'all if your subfactions don't get a rule that works automatically like everyone else does.

 

On the plus side: with a new edition, there will be a round of 2.0 dexes. Theoretically, the dexes that are in the roughest shape are the most likely candidates (with the caveat that marines will, of course, get a number of new models and rules equal to the new models and rules for all of the other factions combined, whether they need it or not). With the Talons change, I'm almost positive there's both a dex 2.0 and a new wave of releases not to far off.

 

Have faith. The Emperor protects.

[.Torch.]

Unfortunately it doesn't look like we have Shield Host Traits to look forward judging by the contents page on the GW site. Looks to me like the Shield Hosts page will detail the relics and warlord traits based on what has been previewed.

 

I really really really want to be proven wrong on this though.

[Noserenda]

Wait.. So if by the contents page Aleya and Valerian dont have an updated sheet in this book, arent they still broken? Despite Sisters and Custodes now being able to work together in one list they still only have the Imperium trait? I mean im kinda past upset now and thinking folks might be right about Talons getting a relatively early Codex and maybe some love/fixes.

[.Torch.]

Wait.. So if by the contents page Aleya and Valerian dont have an updated sheet in this book, arent they still broken? Despite Sisters and Custodes now being able to work together in one list they still only have the Imperium trait? I mean im kinda past upset now and thinking folks might be right about Talons getting a relatively early Codex and maybe some love/fixes.

I believe they have the 'Talons of the Emperor' key word still. But they don't have printed rules in War of the Spider unfortunately.

 

EDIT: Nope, I was wrong about the keyword. That's sucks.

Edited June 14, 2020 by .Torch.

[Sete]

Yeah custodes Shield Hosts only have a WT, a Relic and a Strat.

 

It's enough. I will be starting my Shield Host soon.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Pages have leaked fully in english.

 

Dread host is my jam. For 3 cp you get a 6 attack telemon almost guaranteed to make charge after golden light. Really nice.

 

 

For 6 cp you get the above and a unit of some either allarus, aquilon or even Venatari with golden light and double shots and the charge after. That is a lot of power for 6 command points smashing enemy lines.

 

Venatari aren't terrible in cc with the miniblades. But their pistols are god tier now.

[Maouw]

Dread host is my jam. For 3 cp you get a 6 attack telemon almost guaranteed to make charge after golden light. Really nice.

Wait, we could deep strike a telemon ? :o

 

 

For 6 cp you get the above and a unit of some either allarus, aquilon or even Venatari with golden light and double shots and the charge after. That is a lot of power for 6 command points smashing enemy lines.

I really need tha PA in french to make my mind but on the paper this combos sound like a total obliteration

 

Venatari aren't terrible in cc with the miniblades. But their pistols are god tier now.

At that point ? I mean, now we have sisters and saggitarum as "gunline", should i look at venatari too ? Even more dependant to FW but, well, we are used to this;..

[Sete]

I like the Solar Watch.

Need to work out a strategy for them.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

 

 

Dread host is my jam. For 3 cp you get a 6 attack telemon almost guaranteed to make charge after golden light. Really nice.

Wait, we could deep strike a telemon ? :o

 

For 6 cp you get the above and a unit of some either allarus, aquilon or even Venatari with golden light and double shots and the charge after. That is a lot of power for 6 command points smashing enemy lines.

I really need tha PA in french to make my mind but on the paper this combos sound like a total obliteration

Venatari aren't terrible in cc with the miniblades. But their pistols are god tier now.

At that point ? I mean, now we have sisters and saggitarum as "gunline", should i look at venatari too ? Even more dependant to FW but, well, we are used to this;..

Telemon is a dread. Dreads can be teleported by golden light. Yup.

 

 

Venatari now have the deadliest shooting for t6 and below enemies in the game as far as I can reckon.

 

What else has 4shots per model with exploding 6s at str6 ap-2 and 2D for one command point?

 

Hard to say what to do with Venatari they have a 30" threat range anyways and a bike captain can babysit them for reroll hits and intervention if they start on board. Probably won't want to use them in teleporter and instead hide them with obscuring then pop out of it and obliterate anything that comes within 30".

 

I will probably only use a dreadbomb (trademark HTT) in conjunction with aquilon because...those are all my favorite models.

[Sete]

I'm looking at Solar Watch, Allarus Custodes, a Callidus Assassin, and a few SoS on rhinos.

 

Callidus reign of confusion, and the Solar watch strat should provide some amusing shenanigans.

[Maouw]

 

Telemon is a dread. Dreads can be teleported by golden light. Yup.

Oh my. So i can teleport a allarus bomb and a dual fist telemon if i want ? for real ? *happy oiled abs sounds*

 

Ok so yea, venatari seem mega strong choice now...more resin for the resin god ? That gonna be nerf for sure at some point... I hope its gonna stay affordable after the price increase of the models. Do you think 3 would be enough threat or we should take at least 6 of them ?

 

Also, from what do we know so far, is a regular bataillon is still worth it (that mean troop tax) or it would it be better to take only specialised, even if that cost CP ?

[sairence]

I'm pretty disappointed after seeing the full leaks for the SoS. 8 strategems, most of which are really nothing to write home about and the option to plug into Custodes. Nothing changed or added to make a solo-Sisters force viable, their big weaknesses, being squishy as hell and their anti-psyker aura just not being very good in doing what it's meant to do, have not been addressed at all.

 

The Greatblades have apparently gone to S+2, which is nice as it gets you to S5, but that doesn't change the fact that they're on T3 3+ model and will rarely make it into combat.

 

Just feels like a missed opportunity. It's great that Custodes and DG have gotten a good range, but if those few strats are all it's barely worth saying our Sisters have been included in this book. I can't recall any other faction that got as little.

 

Here's hoping for an overhaul of them early on in 9th.

 

*Apologies if this comes across as overly salty. I'd gotten really excited when I heard my girls would be included and this just feels like a let-down. :-/

 

PS: has anyone seen any further info for Assassins yet, whether there's any fundamental changes? Or mostly a WD reprint?

Edited June 14, 2020 by sairence

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

 

 

Telemon is a dread. Dreads can be teleported by golden light. Yup.

Oh my. So i can teleport a allarus bomb and a dual fist telemon if i want ? for real ? *happy oiled abs sounds*

 

Ok so yea, venatari seem mega strong choice now...more resin for the resin god ? That gonna be nerf for sure at some point... I hope its gonna stay affordable after the price increase of the models. Do you think 3 would be enough threat or we should take at least 6 of them ?

 

Also, from what do we know so far, is a regular bataillon is still worth it (that mean troop tax) or it would it be better to take only specialised, even if that cost CP ?

 

Not every combo gets nerfed. There are plenty of very powerful units and combos out there.

 

5 is probably the ideal number. Keeps blast weapons from shredding them too bad.

 

20 shots is very good still.

[Balerion84]

I'm pretty disappointed after seeing the full leaks for the SoS. 8 strategems, most of which are really nothing to write home about and the option to plug into Custodes. Nothing changed or added to make a solo-Sisters force viable, their big weaknesses, being squishy as hell and their anti-psyker aura just not being very good in doing what it's meant to do, have not been addressed at all.

 

The Greatblades have apparently gone to S+2, which is nice as it gets you to S5, but that doesn't change the fact that they're on T3 3+ model and will rarely make it into combat.

 

Just feels like a missed opportunity. It's great that Custodes and DG have gotten a good range, but if those few strats are all it's barely worth saying our Sisters have been included in this book. I can't recall any other faction that got as little.

 

Here's hoping for an overhaul of them early on in 9th.

 

*Apologies if this comes across as overly salty. I'd gotten really excited when I heard my girls would be included and this just feels like a let-down. :-/

 

PS: has anyone seen any further info for Assassins yet, whether there's any fundamental changes? Or mostly a WD reprint?

Assassins got a small update that allows them to be freely added to Imperium detachments, like inquisitors

[sairence]

Assassins got a small update that allows them to be freely added to Imperium detachments, like inquisitors

But they already had that from WD. It's what the Operative Requisition Sanctioned did. Hasn't that been changed to requiring having an Assassin in your list already to then be able to swap it out?

[Balerion84]

 

Assassins got a small update that allows them to be freely added to Imperium detachments, like inquisitors

But they already had that from WD. It's what the Operative Requisition Sanctioned did. Hasn't that been changed to requiring having an Assassin in your list already to then be able to swap it out?

Didn't they break doctrines before? I don't play space marines. Now you can add them freely without them breaking any doctrines or special rules and for 1cp you can switch an assassin in your army for another one (that was previewed on whc too I think)

 

EDIT: now it says that you can include 1 agent of the imperium (assassin) in one of your patrol/battalion/brigade detachment without it breaking anything else

 

Also, Priority Threat Neutralized was tweaked a little bit, now it's 0CP and gives 1 or 2cp. I think that's all the changes they got

Edited June 15, 2020 by Balerion84

[Ulfast]

Even if we don´t get a huge boost I´m still positive that we get something new and I´m really looking forward to use Sisters of Silence. Just orded the book and 10 SoS.  Hopefull this will give GW a chance to look what works for each army and then when new 9ed codexen comes out they will know what to do. Oh, forgot one thing, it´s nice that our dreads get better. Just lets hope FW open up soon again.

[sairence]

 

 

Assassins got a small update that allows them to be freely added to Imperium detachments, like inquisitors

But they already had that from WD. It's what the Operative Requisition Sanctioned did. Hasn't that been changed to requiring having an Assassin in your list already to then be able to swap it out?

Didn't they break doctrines before? I don't play space marines. Now you can add them freely without them breaking any doctrines or special rules and for 1cp you can switch an assassin in your army for another one (that was previewed on whc too I think)

 

EDIT: now it says that you can include 1 agent of the imperium (assassin) in one of your patrol/battalion/brigade detachment without it breaking anything else

 

Also, Priority Threat Neutralized was tweaked a little bit, now it's 0CP and gives 1 or 2cp. I think that's all the changes they got

Okay, cool. Will have to look at the exact stuff when it comes then, to see if it changes anything for me. I play Guard mainly, we're always happy when someone else wants to tag along. :P

[Prot]

Generally I had really thought going into this that the Custodes in general would get a baseline tweak to survivability in some way or another. 

 

Even though that didn't happen, I do really like the defensive strats the most. Many times while playing Marines I have been dying for a "Transhuman Physiology" for my Custodes. (for an example)

 

I don't see -not- using Trajann so many of the WL stuff just really won't see use for me. But the Dreadnoughts... wow. I've been a Telemon junky for a while and finally they will see a bit more playtime with me for sure. A bit too pricey perhaps for competitive play but I might be able to make mine a bit more terrifying now.

 

SoS feel less imaginative than I hoped. They seem to bring cheap bodies for 8th, but for 9th do we care? We will get our flat 12 cp and just probably have a blob of Custodes in one squad (Patrol perhaps?) and this might leave SoS on the sidelines.... the strats for antipsyker are good though. I'd love to have a bloody Ork Psyker die in one perils roll to cancel his "Da Jump".

 

Anyway, it's some decent content. However it's all exceptionally CP dependent which is a bit of a downer. But sets up for 9th nicely.

[Maouw]

I don't see -not- using Trajann so many of the WL stuff just really won't see use for me. But the Dreadnoughts... wow. I've been a Telemon junky for a while and finally they will see a bit more playtime with me for sure. A bit too pricey perhaps for competitive play but I might be able to make mine a bit more terrifying now.

Shooting or melee ones ? Bevause i agree he is a fantastic looking model :p

 

Did GW make any leak about what would look a detachment in 9th ? So far i have seen bataillon, any idea for the others ?

[Rodrick]

so i  have 3 ven land raiders  i really hope they can carrys SoS,

 

also all my hopes in a new version of PotmS 

[.Torch.]

so i have 3 ven land raiders i really hope they can carrys SoS,

 

also all my hopes in a new version of PotmS

Doesn't look that way at the moment. Unless the expanded Talons rule covers them using Adeptus Custodes Transports. It's unfortunate, I would of liked a Crusader in Talons colours. Edited June 15, 2020 by .Torch.