War of the Spider

[.Torch.]

Fair enough, I didn't math it out. Just assumed that double shots would even out the damage consistency.

[Sete]

Well I think im going for 2 or 3 boxes of Allarus custodians.

I do like terminator lists, with Solar watch (I know the dread host might be better for deep striking, but I do like the relic and strat of solar watch)

I feel my quivering abs awakening. stay tuned for updates.

[Maouw]

 

I think with the new stratagem for auto wounding 6's the Iliastus Accelerator Culverin will be the go to weapon on the Telemon as it's the most consistent.

However, a Dread Host detachment will have a serious argument for running dual fists and deep striking though.

I disagree the strat wont make the Iliastus Accelerator Culverin better than the storm cannon.

If you shoot a storm cannon at a target with T8 and a 3+ armor save you can expect to do 3.75 dmg on average. with the accelerator can expect 1.85 dmg

If yor target is T6 and has a 4+ armor save it is 4.4 dmg for both

If it is T7 and 4+ it is 4.44 for the storm cannon and 3.33 for the Accelerator

 

The Accelerator has 12" more range but only one profil.

So even with the strat the storm cannon is still better.

 

Thank for the maths

What about the weapons options ? I mean, how much difference it would make to take a double fist telemon over a stromcanon + fist one ? Do that change a lot of things in melee ?

[nordsturmking]

 

 

I think with the new stratagem for auto wounding 6's the Iliastus Accelerator Culverin will be the go to weapon on the Telemon as it's the most consistent.

However, a Dread Host detachment will have a serious argument for running dual fists and deep striking though.

I disagree the strat wont make the Iliastus Accelerator Culverin better than the storm cannon.

If you shoot a storm cannon at a target with T8 and a 3+ armor save you can expect to do 3.75 dmg on average. with the accelerator can expect 1.85 dmg

If yor target is T6 and has a 4+ armor save it is 4.4 dmg for both

If it is T7 and 4+ it is 4.44 for the storm cannon and 3.33 for the Accelerator

 

The Accelerator has 12" more range but only one profil.

So even with the strat the storm cannon is still better.

 

Thank for the maths

What about the weapons options ? I mean, how much difference it would make to take a double fist telemon over a stromcanon + fist one ? Do that change a lot of things in melee ?

 

You're welcome I compared a telemon with two fists and one with a storm cannon and a fist. i use 9th ed. rules as far as we know them.

The results are:

5 attacks against T8 3+ --> 13.89 dmg (two fists give you one more attack. )

4 attacks against T8 3+ --> 11.11 dmg

 

The 8" flamer is very situational so i assume you can fire it once before going into melee. And i will ignore 1 flamer because both have at least one.

So 2.78 or 25% more dmg in melee but no anti tank range attacks.

Shooting the storm cannon in melee makes 3 dmg and 3.75 if not in melee.

Shooting the extra flamer in melee will do 1.48 dmg

If you're not fight knights the Telemon with two fists makes only 4.12 more dmg in one turn when fighiting a tank.

If you teleport the telemon with the two fists in it will probably not be in charge range to a tank because of a screen.

The fist and cannon telemon can start doing dmg in the fist turn.

If we assume the Telemon makes it in to melee with a tank in turn 3 the telemon with the two fists will make 13.89 + 1.48 = 15.37 dmg to the tank.

The telemon with one fist will do 11.25 by shooting in turn 1 2 and 3 and 11.11 in melee in turn 3 so 22.36

 

All this means one fist is much better. And i don't think you should take double fists excpet for fun.

Edited June 18, 2020 by nordsturmking

[MeatGrinder]

Dont agree with the musthave on the Telemon. Its pricey as hell and nets us not that much over the achillius which is much cheaper.

[Maouw]

Gotcha

So storm + fist look indeed way better than double fist ^^'

Do the new stratagem for dread make dual storm canon a thing again ? I remember they get outclassed by calladius after the huge telemon nerf

[superwill]

Hey guys,

Just thought I'd chime in regarding the FW stuff.

Last year I went 5-0 in a tournament of 80 players using primarily FW Custodes (I think it was three teles, three caladius, Traj, a -1 banner and a small band of BA with a Slam) and lemme tell you I am as keen as anyone for the new PA stuff. But I just wanted to remind everyone that before you go too crazy and buy a bunch of FW, don't forget that FW is getting completely redone at the start of 9th - totally new books which could (could...) seriously impact a bunch of these units. Telemons were an 11/10 a year ago, then they got put to like an 8/10, but will they still be that after the new book? Same for many other units.
Not wanting to talk anyone out of it, I just thought it was worth reminding people of the announced changes incoming. Personally, I'm feeling like after our nerf last year we might just escape relatively unaffected, but you never know and with the $$ FW stuff costs some might prefer to hold off and see and I'd hate for anyone to splash the cash if they were unaware of what's coming :)

[Sete]

Well im not buying FW, due to my old age vendetta against resin whatever the type, but im stocking up on Allarus.

Cmon Gee Dubs some 40k plastic for custodes!

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Hey guys,

Just thought I'd chime in regarding the FW stuff.

Last year I went 5-0 in a tournament of 80 players using primarily FW Custodes (I think it was three teles, three caladius, Traj, a -1 banner and a small band of BA with a Slam) and lemme tell you I am as keen as anyone for the new PA stuff. But I just wanted to remind everyone that before you go too crazy and buy a bunch of FW, don't forget that FW is getting completely redone at the start of 9th - totally new books which could (could...) seriously impact a bunch of these units. Telemons were an 11/10 a year ago, then they got put to like an 8/10, but will they still be that after the new book? Same for many other units.

Not wanting to talk anyone out of it, I just thought it was worth reminding people of the announced changes incoming. Personally, I'm feeling like after our nerf last year we might just escape relatively unaffected, but you never know and with the $$ FW stuff costs some might prefer to hold off and see and I'd hate for anyone to splash the cash if they were unaware of what's coming :)

 

Wallet go brrrrrrr.

 

 

No but I recommend anyone buy only what they think looks awesome. Gw is a single company and for any myriad of reasons could fail as a business in a week's time.

 

Your advice is literally applicable to every aspect of the hobby not just FW.

[duz_]

Let's keep it constructive

 

Superwill raises a valid point with the changes in edition coming up we dont know everything coming around the corner yet

FW can be expensive and if you're buying to capitalise on current rules there might be some disappointment when 9th drops

 

I don't believe he said: don't buy FW models even if you think the model looks awesome and you've been wanting it for a while and FW just reopened

[Maouw]

This is one if not the major issue with Custodes. We have marvelous model (imo) who have not equivalent in any other army (like, for example, primaris everywhere in every sm army ^^) but we depend a lot of FW stuff when it come to be competitive. We actually don't know either what gonna look the V9, (with the point increase) and, even more, when  gonna rework FW rules too...

So we have to deal with two major unknow things.

I would agree to not take FW right know for the competitive side, but on other hand, if i have to wait 6 months to know if a telemon gonna be good, i can understand people who want to buy right now :/ Or if i should, with the new rules, go for aquilon bomb or allarus bomb.

That kind of things become really frustrating...

[dice4thedicegod]

It’s interesting that our dreadnoughts get a stratagem for halving damage after the similar marine one got nerfed (to being just -1 damage, iirc). I wonder if ours will get faq’d too?

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

I hope not. Unlike marines with tech marines we don't have means of repairing for free...or at all now that I think of it.

[nordsturmking]

It’s interesting that our dreadnoughts get a stratagem for halving damage after the similar marine one got nerfed (to being just -1 damage, iirc). I wonder if ours will get faq’d too?

sadly i am pretty sure it will be nerfed. It is too good.

[Prot]

Shield of Honour (from Aquilon Shield).

 

Hey folks, I know everyone is going Dread Host, but I am looking stongly at Aquilan Shield and the above mentioned strat.

 

So in essence it kicks in when any of your "Imperium Characters" are targeted by a "model in an enemy unit". (In any phase).

 

I am thinking this could be a good way of saving a Knight. Or even an assassin?

 

Just trying to do something that isn't Dread Host. :)

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

I've seen just as many people going for the speedy bike host than dread.

 

That aquilon shield strat is cool as you said for mixed armies. Not quite as strong monostodes.

[AfroCampbell]

What are people's thoughts on Wardens? with the new changes we know of so far.... thoughts?

spitball me a way they might be good.

Was thinking of running wardens and aquilons.....

 

Also do we still want to be running our troops in trios now? hmmmmm

[Dark Legionnare]

What are people's thoughts on Wardens? with the new changes we know of so far.... thoughts?

spitball me a way they might be good.

Was thinking of running wardens and aquilons.....

 

Also do we still want to be running our troops in trios now? hmmmmm

Wardens I can't say. I've always ended up just using Termis instead because I don't have to pay for FGLTC for a squad that way, while still reaping benefits of the new Host 3D6 strat or the vexilla 3" charge effect, which are pretty expensive in and of themselves. (A shame, because my favorite paint job is my wardens, IE, my profile picture)

 

As for 9th, I think battalion w/3 troops will still be king. As I don't think they're going to let vanguards, outriders, or spearheads have that "Command benefits: Refund the CP cost of this detachment" ability.

 

Gut feeling is that's just going to be a feature of Patrol, Brigade, and Battalion detachments. 

 

If it's not, then throw my ideas out the window, but spending probably around 6 CP to bring two detachments (Spearhead, vanguard, ourtider) that aren't one of the ones that require troops is just going to put you right back in the 8th edition hole we're in now of being low CP for the first 2-3 turns where a lot more make or break use of them occurs.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Dark Legionnare

[Kenzaburo]

I think Afro meant, if we will still be going for guardian squads of 3 guardians or if the squad size should be more, right? I think bringing 3 troop units will remain a standard. squad size though - I could see us going for 5, but that will depend hugely on the cost of guardians.

[Dark Legionnare]

I think Afro meant, if we will still be going for guardian squads of 3 guardians or if the squad size should be more, right? I think bringing 3 troop units will remain a standard. squad size though - I could see us going for 5, but that will depend hugely on the cost of guardians.

Ah, in that case. I'd wager that 3 is still good costwise, but also dangerous purely with the new character targeting rules.

 

Enemy unit comes in on a flank (strategic reserves in 9th, deepstrike, etc...) a different unit hit the troops with enough fire to trim one Guardian. Now the SC or vexilla-bearer behind them is on the chopping block for the flank squad because the squad is no longer 3 models or more and they're positioned to only have that one 2-man squad closer now.

 

I would think Gee-dubs would have this in mind for an army of such absolutely-low model count, and Custodes will get some sort of rule saying any single model can shield for a character.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Dark Legionnare

[nordsturmking]

What are people's thoughts on Wardens? with the new changes we know of so far.... thoughts?

spitball me a way they might be good.

Was thinking of running wardens and aquilons.....

 

Also do we still want to be running our troops in trios now? hmmmmm

Why would i take Wardens? Termins can teleport for free and have the Auramite and Adamantium start. ATM i don't see a reason to take Wardens but it all depends on the points changes.

[AfroCampbell]

 

What are people's thoughts on Wardens? with the new changes we know of so far.... thoughts?

spitball me a way they might be good.

Was thinking of running wardens and aquilons.....

 

Also do we still want to be running our troops in trios now? hmmmmm

Why would i take Wardens? Termins can teleport for free and have the Auramite and Adamantium start. ATM i don't see a reason to take Wardens but it all depends on the points changes.

 

 

This in a nutshell I hope that Wardens are so much cheaper they are worth it...

[Brother_Grigorius]

I think that 3 troops and Battalion detachment is the way to go, but, not using Custodian Guard.  Sagittarum is much better , especially with the -1 cap. Using both weapon profiles which ended up at -2 to hit, is now -1 in any case (move, advance and fire both profiles) IF the datasheet remains the same. You end up with 4 shots each (12 shots for 3 models) hitting at 3's at a distance of 6''+adv+15''. Shortest range is 22'' 12 shots 3's to hit (9 s5 -1 1 and 3 5 -3 3). Also a unit of Sagittarum is 150pts to 159pts (8th) and a unit of Guards is  156pts to 177pts (8th). 

[rcoon]

You need troops to not only hold the mid board and objectives but also do actions, none of which sagittarum do better than guardians with shields, not to mention sag can't shoot if they do actions. Don't want to be a downer but sag got nothing from PA or 9th. They're still suboptimal choices.

[Maouw]

Well, to answer that, we need to know :

- All the rules of 9th

- The point cost of units and weapons

 

From what i know of Custodes, Saggitarum get played a lot because they where the answer of two problem for custodes : range firepower and the need to take a bataillon.

Since it will not be mandatory to take a bataillon anymore, and since the game gonna look more objective focused, we should ask us those questions : do the firepower of saggitarum is better than the resistance you have with 3 shields dudes, and are other units better at shooting than saggitarum ? The venatari look hella strong now with the stratagem and aquilon deliver a lot of shooting too.

As a still beginner, i would say im gona take one or two shield slot and im tempted to field SoS as objective holder too.

 

But everything can change once we saw the point increase, so far we can theorycraft a lot of things but if those things become too expensive, we gonna have to work around that.

 

ps : i should have pick space wolves instead, they got the same bikes than us ><