Breachers, How do you run them and why

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Hi Brothers

 

I love the look of breachers, so am planning on having at least 20 in both my Iron Warriors and Imperial fists armies (As well as some Iron Hands breachers to go with some immortals as an allied detachment).

 

I've been trying to read up on the tactica for both these armies, but needless to say with 60 pages each spanning multiple years/editions/points changes/FAQ's, I'm a little lost on what would be decent list wise.

 

For the Iron Warriors I was looking at 2 10 man squads, in dreadclaws, or 1 20 man in a Daddy Claw. 

No specific RoW in mind here, the theme was going to be boarding assault (so Termies in a Caestus, some tacticals with chainswords in a claw, that sort of thing

 

For the Fists 2 10 man squads, and a unit of at least 10 Phalanx Warders (maybe 20, or x2 10 marines). Was thinking stone gauntlet RoW here, and a storm eagle or two (or lots of landraiders). Praetor was gonna be all boarding shield/hammer with a command squad of power axe/shield guys in a scouting proteus.

 

So my question to your guys and gals, why is a stupid idea and I'm doing it all wrong. 

 

What would you guys do? Explain your thoughts behind your actions too please, 

 

 

[Bung]

I started a Fists Army this years. My first 30 Models have been Breachers.

2 Squads 15 Models strong with 3 Meltaguns and Powerfrist in the Sarge.

Didnt think much Just build what i liked with MK 3 armour.

Trying to find something suitable as vexilia.

Next ob the list are 10 Phalanx Warder with Axes and Thunderhammers and Solarite Power Gauntlet in the Sarge.

 

First i can use zu the Breachers for more than one Rite of War as a basis and can easily expand into Stone Gauntlet.

 

Plus i realy like Marines with shields.

[Slips]

I have ran FAQ pre-buff'd Phalanx Warders as such: 2x 10 w/ 4 Power Axes, 2 Plasma Guns, TH on the Sarge (youre not getting an extra attack from the Sol Glove due to the shield so might as well get concussive). Gives them some range punch, some melee punch, and like 3 Ablative bodies for the juicier squad members. All youre losing out on is 4 bolter shots.

 

They work well enough in an environment where you can get them into melee pretty much ASAP or bait the opponent into charging them.

 

Or, I can run them as one beefy 20 man squad with 4 Plasma guns, 2 TH's and 8 Power Axes and have 6 damage sponges.

 

Havent had a chance to run them post FAQ Buff but for all intents theyre now more points efficient to take than breachers.

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

So @Slips, you wouldn't have them all axes then? 

 

What do you take for your compulsory troops then?

 

@Bung, Are you planning any transports for them? 15 is a difficult number to transport

[Slips]

So @Slips, you wouldn't have them all axes then? 

 

What do you take for your compulsory troops then?

 

@Bung, Are you planning any transports for them? 15 is a difficult number to transport

You could give them all axes, 2 thunder hammers as specials (per 10) and the Sarge a TH or Sol Glove and make them a purely melee squad.

 

You can also keep them barebones and give them 2 Plasma Guns and Art Armor on the sarge and call it a day and make them a tougher to displace objective camping squad with some bite via plasma.

 

It depends on what you want them to do. When I build the squad, Power Axes were +10 per which really bumped up the cost of the squad which was already expensive (before the FAQ/Playtest rules reduced both) so I opted to just make 2 squads that did a bit of both while saving as much points as I could.

 

Now, if I had the current rules that were shown in the Playtest I'd definitely opt for greater specialization.

 

I also usually run Dorn or Sigismund meaning I usually take Templar/Warders/Termies as troops; when I'm not I just take barebones tac squads to fill out the slots as inexpensively as possible or am running a RoW like Pride to take Vets as Troops.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Slips

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Well it was going to be be 2 flamers, TH for the sgt, and the rest axes for the Warders. x2 potentially. 

 

I don't really know what I would be doing for any of them, they just look cool. I guess I'd be wanting to charge everything?

[Slips]

Well it was going to be be 2 flamers, TH for the sgt, and the rest axes for the Warders. x2 potentially. 

 

I don't really know what I would be doing for any of them, they just look cool. I guess I'd be wanting to charge everything?

Realistically, due to their special rules, you actually want to bait enemies into charging them; they get better weapon skill when charged, have a -1" mod to charging themselves (Hardened Armor), have defensive grenades via their shields and, in Stone Gauntlet, keep their +1T bonus and maintain a +1A when charged via Counter-Attack.

[No Foes Remain]

I see people using plasma, flamer and melta for breachers but why no volkites? Yes they have low AP but their strength and the deflagrate rule makes up for it and they are really cheap at 5pts (their range is also mitigated when used in ZM due to ranges being short then anyway).

 

Outside of ZM do they really have any use? I can see the IF using them due to their rite of war and the TS using them with Telekinesis giving them a 5++ against ranged and a 4++ in CC (in ZM that becomes a nasty 4++/3++ respectively). I really like the look of them but aside from thise two legions I don't really see a use for them outside ZM. Maybe in urban tables due to the terrain but thats not a common occurrence.

[Noserenda]

I used to use Alpha Legion Breachers with Grav guns, infiltrate helps with the range issues and our meta sees a LOT of AV 14 where the grav is a lot more useful than melta. That was long before the FAQ made breachers a better choice but they worked out alright :) 

[Brofist]

I love them too. The niche that breachers fill outside of ZM is being your compulsory troops choice that gets melta bombs. 10 in a dreadclaw, with bombs, is a powerful way to remove heavy armor from the table on turn 2. Thanks to their invlun saves, they even do it well against hard targets like knights or super heavy vehicles. Better yet, they might hold for a turn if they get charged by a deathstar after they blow up their ride.

 

It isn't cheap, but its effective, and its a compulsory troops choice. I've run 20 man units as well, and while resilient, they just cost a lot of points for footslogging marines with bolters. Another option is to grab 20 men with grav guns and inflitrate, if you play a legion that lets you do that. This is another tricky way to deal with heavy armor in the middle of the table, but is less flexible than the dreadclaw. Outside of thise there's ZM, where they are tough, can tarpit, and do well against armor in most standard marine lists.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Brofist

[Bung]

So @Slips, you wouldn't have them all axes then?

 

What do you take for your compulsory troops then?

 

@Bung, Are you planning any transports for them? 15 is a difficult number to transport

As we all Just started there arent much Forge World models / transports so its ok to play them that way.

Personly i wanted the option to play a 20 model squad with Apothecari and Herald in a Stone Gauntlet list to absolutely anoy some World Eaters but you need still 2 Breacher Squads.

On the other Side i didnt want to start with that Pride RoW so i decided to paint enough of my favorite compulsory troops choice first.

I need to do another Sarge to split them in 3 squads.

[Marshal Vespasian]

I plan to build 10 breachers for ZM foe my fists and I will propably build an addtional 10 warders for that as well. I have the bits for 5, but the mk iv kits I have are planned for some more tacticals and a heavy support squad.

 

My terminators carry shields anyways so thatll be 3 units benefitting from the RoW.

 

Can breacherd shoot their gravguns when charged? I am super torn on which guns to give them.

[Brofist]

For ZM? Forget the grav guns and go with melta. Flamers are ok too, but I find that I'd usually rather have AP2 armor bane especially on a unit that's good at taking down armor.

 

e: you can't reaction fire with heavy weapons unless the unit has relentless or something similar. Blast is a straight up 'no'

Edited April 28, 2020 by Brofist

[Marshal Vespasian]

For ZM? Forget the grav guns and go with melta. Flamers are ok too, but I find that I'd usually rather have AP2 armor bane especially on a unit that's good at taking down armor.

 

e: you can't reaction fire with heavy weapons unless the unit has relentless or something similar. Blast is a straight up 'no'

Thats what I was thinking as well actually, so good to see I'm not entirely wrong on that count